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HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18

3750 series breakdown

Mulling about getting a 3750-series switch, if the price is right. Going alittle nuts trying to keep track of
the various makes / models out there. To help myself keep track, drew out this little product matrix... correct
me if I'm wrong on anything

3750 -- original make of 3750, EOL (or at least not readily available via retail / reseller channels), 10/100 ports
3750G -- 10/100/1000 ports
3750E -- 'improved' 3750, though about the only 'improved' part I can find is it's got alot more smarts when it comes to
failing off an RPS than the non-E models of 3750.
3750X -- latest iteration of 3750, all 10/100/1000 ports, higher POE ratings

- all models can stack via stackcable

- all series break down between SMI and EMI (or whatever Cisco's calling the images these days), but I'm not sure
if the 3750 (any) uses the old style of upgrading between SMI to EMI (ie. load EMI and reboot) or needs 'software
activation'

- 32F / 128D IIRC, except the X which claim 64F / 256D

- PowerPC CPU, but again no datasheet on the specs of the CPU

- Found no data(sheets) on the packet buffer size on the 3750

Am I missing anything else?

Regards


Nubiatech
soy capitan

join:2007-09-02
Chicago, IL
kudos:1
Both X and E models have 64F/256D.
Not sure what you mean by the buffer size.

All of the 3750's have the same TCAM limitations, and the same sdm templates, iirc. The 48 port models have 12 ASICs (4 ports per ASIC).
--
puo uo oo


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to HELLFIRE
said by HELLFIRE:

3750E -- 'improved' 3750, though about the only 'improved' part I can find is it's got alot more smarts when it comes to
failing off an RPS than the non-E models of 3750.
3750X -- latest iteration of 3750, all 10/100/1000 ports, higher POE ratings

3750e/x support 10gbe. -e uses x2 modules (and can be stepped to 1gbe via twingig converters) while -x uses a separate network module (nm) or service module (sm -- used if you want netflow, etc). nm can be 1gbe or 10gbe. 10gbe uses sfp+ and can support 1gbe if sfp are inserted.
-e have only single power supply, requiring use of rps-2300 if redundant power is required. -x have dual power supply option, plus the addition of stackpower (which is included in lan-base license now, i believe). its gimmicky -- but if you're doing large stacked rings, it works well.

both are 10/100/1000 with poe.

- all models can stack via stackcable

yes -- but -e/-x support stackwise+ -- 64gbps, improved ring-split handling, additional support for hot-swap/insert/removal of members from stack.
as noted above, -x support stackpower, either from an xps (rps on steroids) or by creating a separate power-ring.

- all series break down between SMI and EMI (or whatever Cisco's calling the images these days), but I'm not sure
if the 3750 (any) uses the old style of upgrading between SMI to EMI (ie. load EMI and reboot) or needs 'software
activation'

most old c3k use traditional software versions (i.e. lan-base, ip-base, enterprise). -e and -x are software licensed, using a "universal" binary. check the 'sh ver' output for confirmation.

- PowerPC CPU, but again no datasheet on the specs of the CPU

all of these are hardware-based forwarding platforms. reference the specific datasheets for what is supported. basically -- if its not supported in hardware -- don't do it.

- Found no data(sheets) on the packet buffer size on the 3750

aenemic. its a "closet" access switch. not "server" access. it's meant for user access.
fwiw -- many people have been trying to find the depth -- with no luck (tea leaves say its crappier than cisco wants to admit).

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
I've always been curious as to how the 3750E compares to the 3560E.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
said by sk1939:

I've always been curious as to how the 3750E compares to the 3560E.

addition of stackwise.
its the same switch at the core. 3750 is just targeted at "enterprise" due to the single control-plane nonsense.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


Da Geek Kid

join:2003-10-11
::1
kudos:1
reply to HELLFIRE
3750X can be used as a distro switch. It has a redundant hot swap PS as well as Power Stack. The performance of the 3750-X is as good as the old 4500.

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to HELLFIRE
@sk1939
From what I can tell, 3750 has full PVLAN support (isolated, community), the 3560 does not.

@Da Geek Kid
Got any numbers we could look at backing that up? Or this just from some setups you've done before?

Thanks for the comments all. Leaning heavily towards the 3750G model as it can be had for around 800USD,
based on the searches I've done so far. Also looks like you're right tubbynet that E and X use software
activation. IIRC, and correct me if I'm wrong, SMI / EMI switches still just need EMI code loaded,
a reload, and they're off to the races.

Also side observation, but nearly all the xx60 switches do stackwise. So what the heck and what's the point?

Regards


Da Geek Kid

join:2003-10-11
::1
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Callcentric
»www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/switche···0955.pdf

the xx60 = 2960S only which supports FlexStack != Stackwise... FlexStack is not as reliable as Stackwise.

If you are looking for pvlan you would need 3750ME switch

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to HELLFIRE
Thanks for the datasheet Da Geek Kid, got some more light reading to do

Here -- looks like it's actually the 3560, 3750 and 3750ME that support Isolated, PVLAN and Community PVLAN configs.

Regards


Da Geek Kid

join:2003-10-11
::1
kudos:1
also, a 4507 has 7 modules 2 for SUP 5 for other. 7 3750 stack have 7 SUP... Anyone can act as a SUP which makes a 3750 more redundant. specially 3750-X with PowerStack.

A 3750ME's interfaces function differently than a normal 3750, but ok.


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Another sticking point; what's the difference between the 3750G 24 port versions (one is 1.25 RU high, the other is 1 RU) and the 3750 and 3750v2.


Da Geek Kid

join:2003-10-11
::1
kudos:1
I believe you are refering to the 3750 with the WLC built-in which is a bit larger. Also, the 3750v2 has only a 32Gbps switch fabric as opposed to 160Gbps for E and X. The StackWise for E and X are @ 64Gbps as opposed to 32 for V2...


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
I knew that much, but how does it it compare to the original 3750 (v1 vs v2)?

I don't believe so, they look like this (top vs bottom).



Da Geek Kid

join:2003-10-11
::1
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Callcentric
it looks like the old model with POE. The one with WLC is:
»www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collate···879.html

Obviously, the V2 is newer, may have faster chip running 15.0 code only...

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to HELLFIRE
Have to look around Cisco if they have a full datasheet again for the 3750s. One I found heredidn't include the v2s
as far as I can tell.

By the way, anyone able to comment on this?

said by HELLFIRE:

IIRC, and correct me if I'm wrong, SMI / EMI switches still just need EMI code loaded,
a reload, and they're off to the races.

Regards


Da Geek Kid

join:2003-10-11
::1
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Callcentric
The doc I included above includes V2.
EMI/SMI was a code upload. Originally the SMI could not be loaded with the SSH version which caused the SMI switch to be bricked and you had to use YMODEM to push the SMI code to it. Cisco fixed that by changing their code. Now all the SMI and EMI will work with new codes. Not sure about version 15 though...

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to HELLFIRE
Thanks for the warning Da Geek Kid. Will continue to knock around and see what the deals are for 3750(any) is.
Will keep everyone posted!

Regards


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
3750 10/100 PoE can be had for $350-$400.

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to HELLFIRE
Just thought I'd update, got a 3750G-24T-S (1U, no SFPs) for about $800USD w/o shipping. Other than getting a few minutes to power it up and confirm all the status LEDs are green, haven't had much time to do anything else.

HOPEFULLY this weekend is quiet enough to test it out some more and attempt a code upgrade to IPSERVICES.

Thanks again for everyone's comments!

Regards


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
It should upgrade without issue. I thought about buying a 3750G, but I bought an SRX210 instead. Did you buy new or used?

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
Ebay seller. The weekend can't come soon enough!

Regards


Da Geek Kid

join:2003-10-11
::1
kudos:1
reply to sk1939
SRX210 has only 2 Gig ports. I believe the 3750G's performance as a switching device is far higher than a small SRX210.


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
said by Da Geek Kid:

SRX210 has only 2 Gig ports. I believe the 3750G's performance as a switching device is far higher than a small SRX210.

True, but I didn't buy it for use as a switch, rather I bought it to supplement an existing 2811. For switching I have more than enough switches (including a recently acquired EX3200 and a 3560CG-8TC-S).


MrTwister
Premium
join:2003-09-27
Hilliard, OH

1 recommendation

reply to Nubiatech
said by Nubiatech:

All of the 3750's have the same TCAM limitations, and the same sdm templates, iirc. The 48 port models have 12 ASICs (4 ports per ASIC).

This one is a gotcha.. normal 3750-24/48TS-S/TS-E/PS-S/PS-E.. etc
(basically the standard 10/100) only have 2 ASIC's for the entire switch, so you have 26 ports per ASIC. We've ran into this in our
sites, when we overrun the ASIC's with the GIG uplink (SFP) ports.
We always had to play games with ports with high utilization, so
as not to kill the ASIC.

If you do one of these;
sh platform pm if-numbers
 

You'll get back one of these; (notice the PORT col)
interface gid  gpn  lpn  port slot unit slun port-type lpn-idb gpn-idb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gi1/0/1   1    1    49   1/0  1    1    1    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/2   2    2    50   1/1  1    2    2    local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/1   3    3    1    1/2  1    1    3    local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/2   4    4    2    1/3  1    2    4    local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/3   5    5    3    1/4  1    3    5    local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/4   6    6    4    1/5  1    4    6    local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/5   7    7    5    1/6  1    5    7    local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/6   8    8    6    1/7  1    6    8    local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/7   9    9    7    1/8  1    7    9    local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/8   10   10   8    1/9  1    8    10   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/9   11   11   9    1/10 1    9    11   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/10  12   12   10   1/11 1    10   12   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/11  13   13   11   1/12 1    11   13   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/12  14   14   12   1/13 1    12   14   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/13  15   15   13   1/14 1    13   15   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/14  16   16   14   1/15 1    14   16   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/15  17   17   15   1/16 1    15   17   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/16  18   18   16   1/17 1    16   18   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/17  19   19   17   1/18 1    17   19   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/18  20   20   18   1/19 1    18   20   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/19  21   21   19   1/20 1    19   21   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/20  22   22   20   1/21 1    20   22   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/21  23   23   21   1/22 1    21   23   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/22  24   24   22   1/23 1    22   24   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/23  25   25   23   1/24 1    23   25   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/24  26   26   24   1/25 1    24   26   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/3   27   27   51   0/1  1    3    27   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/4   28   28   52   0/0  1    4    28   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/25  29   29   25   0/2  1    25   29   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/26  30   30   26   0/3  1    26   30   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/27  31   31   27   0/4  1    27   31   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/28  32   32   28   0/5  1    28   32   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/29  33   33   29   0/6  1    29   33   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/30  34   34   30   0/7  1    30   34   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/31  35   35   31   0/8  1    31   35   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/32  36   36   32   0/9  1    32   36   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/33  37   37   33   0/10 1    33   37   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/34  38   38   34   0/11 1    34   38   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/35  39   39   35   0/12 1    35   39   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/36  40   40   36   0/13 1    36   40   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/37  41   41   37   0/14 1    37   41   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/38  42   42   38   0/15 1    38   42   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/39  43   43   39   0/16 1    39   43   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/40  44   44   40   0/17 1    40   44   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/41  45   45   41   0/18 1    41   45   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/42  46   46   42   0/19 1    42   46   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/43  47   47   43   0/20 1    43   47   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/44  48   48   44   0/21 1    44   48   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/45  49   49   45   0/22 1    45   49   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/46  50   50   46   0/23 1    46   50   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/47  51   51   47   0/24 1    47   51   local     Yes     Yes
Fa1/0/48  52   52   48   0/25 1    48   52   local     Yes     Yes
 

Where a 3750G will yield the following (output truncated)
interface gid  gpn  lpn  port slot unit slun port-type lpn-idb gpn-idb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gi1/0/1   1    1    1    6/3  1    1    1    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/2   2    2    2    6/0  1    2    2    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/3   3    3    3    6/1  1    3    3    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/4   4    4    4    6/2  1    4    4    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/5   5    5    5    5/2  1    5    5    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/6   6    6    6    5/3  1    6    6    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/7   7    7    7    5/0  1    7    7    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/8   8    8    8    5/1  1    8    8    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/9   9    9    9    8/3  1    9    9    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/10  10   10   10   8/0  1    10   10   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/11  11   11   11   8/1  1    11   11   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/12  12   12   12   8/2  1    12   12   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/13  13   13   13   7/2  1    13   13   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/14  14   14   14   7/3  1    14   14   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/15  15   15   15   7/0  1    15   15   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/16  16   16   16   7/1  1    16   16   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/17  17   17   17   4/3  1    17   17   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/18  18   18   18   4/0  1    18   18   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/19  19   19   19   4/1  1    19   19   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/20  20   20   20   4/2  1    20   20   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/21  21   21   21   3/2  1    21   21   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/22  22   22   22   3/3  1    22   22   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/23  23   23   23   3/0  1    23   23   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/24  24   24   24   3/1  1    24   24   local     Yes     Yes
 

now the 3750X, is like the 3750G, but oddly enough,
when you do that command, you get an output that
resembles the regular 10/100 3750. There was some
architecture changes, and for lack of another name, there's
ASIC's that monitor the other ASICs. really weird..

again, output truncated;
interface gid  gpn  lpn  port slot unit slun port-type lpn-idb gpn-idb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gi1/0/1   1    1    1    1/1  1    1    1    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/2   2    2    2    1/0  1    2    2    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/3   3    3    3    1/3  1    3    3    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/4   4    4    4    1/2  1    4    4    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/5   5    5    5    1/5  1    5    5    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/6   6    6    6    1/4  1    6    6    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/7   7    7    7    1/9  1    7    7    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/8   8    8    8    1/8  1    8    8    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/9   9    9    9    1/11 1    9    9    local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/10  10   10   10   1/10 1    10   10   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/11  11   11   11   1/13 1    11   11   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/0/12  12   12   12   1/12 1    12   12   local     Yes     Yes
" " " " " " " " " " " " 
Gi1/1/1   49   49   49   0/6  1    49   49   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/1/2   50   50   50   0/7  1    50   50   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/1/3   51   51   51   0/20 1    51   51   local     Yes     Yes
Gi1/1/4   52   52   52   0/21 1    52   52   local     Yes     Yes
Te1/1/1   53   53   53   0/0  1    1    53   local     Yes     Yes
Te1/1/2   54   54   54   0/14 1    2    54   local     Yes     Yes
 

The 3750X switches, make big headway with the way they handle packets. Older 3750's would put EVERY packet onto the buss/stack ring, even if the packet was destine for a port on the same switch module

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to HELLFIRE
Got some time and powered up the 3750, confirmed it's passing POST from the console... good enough
for me for now.

While the seller nuked the config, seems they forgot about config.old and vlan.dat on this piece of
kit. Oh well, one free config for me :D

Then came the nitty gritty of the code upgrade

Code rev. prechange

Switch Ports Model              SW Version            SW Image
------ ----- -----              ----------            ----------
*    1 24    WS-C3750G-24T      12.2(25)SEE2           C3750-IPBASE-M
 

Code rev. prechange

Switch Ports Model              SW Version            SW Image
------ ----- -----              ----------            ----------
*    1 24    WS-C3750G-24T      12.2(55)SE6           C3750-IPSERVICESK9-M
 

Further proof it was running IP SERVICES

Switch#config t
Enter configuration commands, one per line.  End with CNTL/Z.
Switch(config)#ip ssh ver 2
Please create RSA keys to enable SSH (of atleast 768 bits size) to enable SSH v2.
 
Switch(config)#router ?
  bgp       Border Gateway Protocol (BGP)
  eigrp     Enhanced Interior Gateway Routing Protocol (EIGRP)
  isis      ISO IS-IS
  iso-igrp  IGRP for OSI networks
  mobile    Mobile routes
  odr       On Demand stub Routes
  ospf      Open Shortest Path First (OSPF)
  rip       Routing Information Protocol (RIP)
 
Switch(config-vlan)#private-vlan ?
  association  Configure association between private VLANs
  community    Configure the VLAN as a community private VLAN
  isolated     Configure the VLAN as an isolated private VLAN
  primary      Configure the VLAN as a primary private VLAN
 

I need more free time to play...

Regards

aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:4
How is the 3750's fan noise? Is it bearable?


Da Geek Kid

join:2003-10-11
::1
kudos:1
3750's is not what you call Kitchen table switch. It's tolerable but not for a conference call or meeting room.

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to aryoba
Second Da Geek Kid.

Listening to it again powered, it's like an AC fan on low but if you had to listen to that for a couple of hours...

Regards

aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:4
Why didn't you stick with 3560? It is (much) quieter


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
said by aryoba:

Why didn't you stick with 3560? It is (much) quieter

Used 3750G's are much cheaper than 3560G's for some reason.