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fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14
reply to FFH

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

Pretty easy to see what is going on here. Armstrong didn't want to go through the hearing in which 10 or more people were going to testify that they saw him doping.

quote:
The antidoping agency said more than 10 witnesses — including some of Armstrong’s former teammates and allies — had agreed to testify against Armstrong in a public hearing. There, the antidoping agency planned to reveal its evidence against him.
»www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/sport···nted=all

The guy's public image is what he cares about the most, and hearing those witnesses publicly would harm his image more than just not fighting it to him.
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AndandoPaleo

join:2012-06-21
outer limits

And he could not win in that kangaroo court. I think he did what was right for his family and cause. To hell with the USADA.
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ancient walking one

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Insight6

join:2012-08-25

2 recommendations

reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

Lance Armstrong is an athletic and cycling icon. He has an unparallelled record in his sport.

He is also a genuine miracle survivor of cancer. The extent of his cancer was such that there is just no way statistically or realistically that he should have survived.

During the most extensive chemotherapy and other forms of treatment his body wasted away to nothing. After his cancer was eliminated he began to get his muscle mass back and to get in shape. It is an indisputable physical fact and a matter of record that his muscles that redeveloped themselves "grew" back into a different shape. They were longer, leaner, more efficient and stronger. The difference in his body after recovery as opposed to before his cancer when he was a World Champion are obvious to even a non-sports fan. The new muscles raised his level of cycling efficiency from that of a World Champion to a cyclist that was even stronger and faster.

Given the above it is no wonder that Armstrong is the story. It is understandable.

However, IMO it is the USADA that should be the focus of the story.

They now come out years after his retirement from cycling and go back over the last 12 years of his career and claim that they have proof of his doping. Their proof is...why essentially just a collection of characters from central castings comprised mostly of other cyclists, many caught cheating by testing, including former champions, with an ax to grind, or an agenda, or to gain something, or enhance themselves in some way by stating Armstrong doped and some cases encouraged them to dope. The USADA offers no scientific or physical proof that Armstrong doped.

Many of these same people that would be witnesses used by the USADA to testify against Armstrong are disgraced and banned former cyclists.

The sport that he competed in and during the period he competed was perhaps the international sport with the most regular and long running doping going on. Virtually all of the top riders doped. (Just look at the list of those caught--as in really caught doping as opposed to allegedly doping.)

The above all said IMO the real story here is the rogue out of control USADA. Whether Armstrong doped or not is not as important to me as the kangaroo court USADA and their egregious methods and actions.

In the US justice system including the civil and administrative as well as the criminal there is a time honored thing known as the statute of limitations. The principle of the statue limitations exists for the interest of justice. The USADA is not bound by that, (a fact in of itself that should be rectified), and in essence they are literally persecuting not prosecuting Armstrong, going back twelve years into his cycling career and using the judicial equivalent of jailhouse informants to in essence convict him before even a fair and impartial hearing on the very same matter that he was investigated for and cleared by the DOJ.

All the other cyclist banned and caught cheating failed a drug test. Armstrong took over 500 tests and never failed one.

If the USADA has proof that Armstrong cheated, real proof the let them show it. And by the way where have they been hiding this proof for the past 12 years that now suddenly they claim to have?

Persecution not prosecution and a gross abuse of power under the color of authority. That's the USADA when it comes to Armstrong.

A travesty.



JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.
Premium
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La La Land
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I seem to remember that "someone" accused Armstrong of having an edge because of his chemotherapy drugs...

Like you said, I think they wanted to take him down, period, facts be dammed...
--
Politics is a disease, we need a cure!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!



AndandoPaleo

join:2012-06-21
outer limits

1 recommendation

The USADA even waived their own statute of limitations so they could 'strip' him of all titles. They wanted him bad. That is their only 'proof'.
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ancient walking one

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Insight6

join:2012-08-25

1 recommendation

reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

If Armstrong passed every drug test, 500 over a twelve year period and he is now accused of doping then what's the point of the tests?



drslash
Goya Asma
Premium
join:2002-02-18
Marion, IA

1 recommendation

Don't bring logic and reasoning in to this discussion. The Armstrong issue should be discussed void of facts and strictly on hatred for the man. /sarcasm



Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky

join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
Reviews:
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1 recommendation

reply to Insight6

said by Insight6:

If Armstrong passed every drug test, 500 over a twelve year period and he is now accused of doping then what's the point of the tests?

Same logic about the USADA's statute of limitations. If they have them but break them at will why even have them? They are breaking all kinds of things in their pursuit to be Captain Ahab.


Insight6

join:2012-08-25
reply to drslash

Tyler Hamilton is a both a former teammate and a rival of Armstrong, especially in the Tour.

He and a "co-author" are promoting their soon to be released or just released book about the life and times of Hamilton as a competitive cyclist. In the book Hamilton tells all about how he doped and beat drug tests plus accuses Armstrong of doping.

She if you learn anything or can see any issues with the interview conducted by Matt Lauer plus the questions and answers. LOL!

»today.msnbc.msn.com/id/48909916/···L6VTI3f8

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AndandoPaleo

join:2012-06-21
outer limits
reply to Insight6

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

Ooh! Matt Lauer! Now there's an unbiased reporter! /end sarcasm
--
ancient walking one



BACULUM

join:2011-10-31
Leander, TX
reply to ZZZZZZZ

So far, this looks like a flash in the pan. No one seems to care what the USADA thinks but them. lol
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ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1

11 teammates blow whistle on Lance Armstrong

»www.cbc.ca/sports/cycling/story/···?cmp=rss
--
~~Go Lions....back to back Cups!!~~



Gavin5

join:2012-10-03
canada
reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

Nice story. Thanks.



ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1

1 edit

'A liar, a bully and a serial dope cheat'

»www.todayonline.com/Hotnews/EDC1···pe-cheat

so is this enough proof yet for those fanboys or are you still in denial?

and this:

»www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19907683
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Insight6

join:2012-08-25

1 edit

3 recommendations

reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: Armstrong files counter lawsuit

Well the USDA has released their “evidence” against Lance Armstrong to support their allegations that he doped. Armstrong retired seven years ago. The “evidence” summarily presented by the persecutors, uh, prosecutors, uh self-serving former riders and a bureaucracy looking to make a power grab goes all the way back to 1996---16 years. So he been out for five years and the evidence goes back another 11 years. So where has the USDA been hiding it? Sixteen years. It’s so pathetic one can’t even laugh about it. It took them 16 years to come forward? Gosh, with Armstrong winning the Tour every year, were I the USDA I think I might have come forward a bit sooner and put a stop to the Texas Terminator. Would have helped to have scientific and credible physical evidence too.

The evidence is substantially other riders who doped saying Armstrong doped too. Most of them doped and eventually flunked a drug test—or two. Armstrong passed ALL of his tests, over 500. I guess he was a genius and the rest were morons? Those fellow riders and competitors lied about their doping, lied when they were caught by a failed drug test, and I suspect lied in their tell all book deals. (Reinforced by the inventors and perfect of tabloid newspapers, the Brits!)

So my question to them all: Were you lying before or are you lying now? When did you start lying and when will you stop? How much again are you being "paid" for your testimony? In what other ways are you being rewarded or benefiting from your claims? Why only now are you speaking up?

However, for the sake of the argument and for the sanity of the talentless whining slug with a French accent, the argument is that everybody was doping. OK. If so then it was a level playing field. Armstrong doped. His competitors doped. In a level playing field Armstrong was the most dominant rider or all time. Had no one doped he still would have been the most dominant rider of all time.

To sum every thing up, the proof that Armstrong doped is the claims by others that he did. The physical and scientific evidence? Give the USDA time, and I’m sure they can manufacture some of that too.

Lance Armstrong: Simply the best. Better than all the rest. Better than every one.

Au revoir.

Ah, Paradise, the world of fantasy make believe created by envy and jealousy. LOL!

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JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.
Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5
Reviews:
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reply to Insight6

Re: Armstrong files counter lawsuit

said by Insight6:

The evidence is substantially other riders who doped saying Armstrong doped too. Most of them doped and eventually flunked a drug test—or two. Armstrong passed ALL of his tests, over 500. I guess he was a genius and the rest were morons?

Therein is the rub with this report, every one of them got caught, yet Armstrong didn't, how did he manage this, if they were ALL doping the same way, at the same time???

However, for the sake of argument, the argument is that everybody was doping. OK. If so then it was a level playing field. Armstrong doped. His competitors doped. In a level playing field Armstrong was the most dominant rider or all time. Had no one doped he still would have been the most dominant rider of all time.

Also true, if you believe this report...

While the evidence presented in this report seems insurmountable, one does have to question the timing and how long it took for them to essentially "catch" him...
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Politics is a disease, we need a cure!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth!
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loli
Premium
join:2002-08-26
South Richmond Hill, NY

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ is like the most biased and (insert favorite word) person around here. He's already been insulting us and the nation as a whole, might as well since it seems to be okay around here.

Why are people still replying to him? If it were up to him, he'd give Armstrong the death penalty. It's already been mentioned but if he even DID dope and so many others did, then why did he still win if the playing field was practically even? Why did he get caught and not others.

So much of the so called evidence don't fit the scenario and the time frame is just ridiculous. Until there is real proof he doped (i.e FAILED A FUCKING TEST), then yeah he deserves to lose his shit.
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ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1

an unlikely hero

»www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19930514

At least someone had the balls to do the ''right thing''.
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ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1

Re: an unlikely hero

quote:
There probably was less than 1% of Tour de France contestants that weren't doping.
Yes that's true,doesn't say much for the integrity of the sport.
--
~~Go Lions....back to back Cups!!~~