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JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.
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reply to Insight6

Re: Armstrong files counter lawsuit

said by Insight6:

The evidence is substantially other riders who doped saying Armstrong doped too. Most of them doped and eventually flunked a drug test—or two. Armstrong passed ALL of his tests, over 500. I guess he was a genius and the rest were morons?

Therein is the rub with this report, every one of them got caught, yet Armstrong didn't, how did he manage this, if they were ALL doping the same way, at the same time???

However, for the sake of argument, the argument is that everybody was doping. OK. If so then it was a level playing field. Armstrong doped. His competitors doped. In a level playing field Armstrong was the most dominant rider or all time. Had no one doped he still would have been the most dominant rider of all time.

Also true, if you believe this report...

While the evidence presented in this report seems insurmountable, one does have to question the timing and how long it took for them to essentially "catch" him...
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loli
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1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ is like the most biased and (insert favorite word) person around here. He's already been insulting us and the nation as a whole, might as well since it seems to be okay around here.

Why are people still replying to him? If it were up to him, he'd give Armstrong the death penalty. It's already been mentioned but if he even DID dope and so many others did, then why did he still win if the playing field was practically even? Why did he get caught and not others.

So much of the so called evidence don't fit the scenario and the time frame is just ridiculous. Until there is real proof he doped (i.e FAILED A FUCKING TEST), then yeah he deserves to lose his shit.
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ZZZZZZZ
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an unlikely hero

»www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19930514

At least someone had the balls to do the ''right thing''.
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ZZZZZZZ
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Re: an unlikely hero

quote:
There probably was less than 1% of Tour de France contestants that weren't doping.
Yes that's true,doesn't say much for the integrity of the sport.
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BACULUM

join:2011-10-31
Leander, TX
reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

What I don't get is if they were all involved, why didn't the other guys demand their turn in the yellow jersey instead of letting LA have all the glory. I remain unconvinced.
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capdjq
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join:2000-11-01
Vancouver

What I cannot understand is, if the evidence were so convincing why did the Feds drop the case?



Insight6

join:2012-08-25

1 recommendation

said by capdjq:

What I cannot understand is, if the evidence were so convincing why did the Feds drop the case?

Because there wasn't sufficient evidence to warrant charges?

Also, unlike the USDA they weren't in a position to offer deals and incentives to the USDA "jailhouse informants" as well as other "witnesses" against Armstrong like the USDA is and has.

All that there is to be said has I think for the most part been all ready posted.

The one thing that is REALLY strange is that there are in addition to the gaggle of fellow cyclists testifying that Armstrong doped for his entire career and they themselves flunked drug tests plus the the other Tour or international bike winners and competitors of Armstrong that failed doping tests and were suspended as well as having their titles stripped and again all failed drug tests. All of them claim Armstrong was the worst offender. The longest offender. The "ringleader" and Godfather of doping including bullying others to dope, "Lance made me do it" and so on yet Armstrong is the ONLY one that never failed a test.

The only one. Like I said earlier as a legitimate question and point--were all of the numerous other failed caught cheaters morons so they got caught while Armstrong was some kind of Merlin?


loli
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join:2002-08-26
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reply to ZZZZZZZ

Armstrong is indeed a wizard apparently.



Insight6

join:2012-08-25

said by loli:

Armstrong is indeed a wizard apparently.

Yeah, really. I mean the guy allegedly got complete blood transfusions in his room converted to a medical facility and yet never was caught while a simple test caught all of his cycling critics. Pretty entertaining facts regardless of whether or not he doped.


capdjq
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Vancouver

1 recommendation

There are a few athletes I hold above others. Armstrong is one of them. I find it very difficult to believe he could pass hundreds of drug tests. He was woken in the middle of the night, without warning, and tested, during races. He had tests every day during and before the tour. The French were out to get him. To my mind all we have are the words of cheaters who were caught. That's why, IMO, the Feds had no case. Their testimony would have been ripped to shreds by any competent defense lawyer.
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Insight6

join:2012-08-25
reply to loli

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

said by loli:

Armstrong is indeed a wizard apparently.

Armstrong is a very polarizing individual, especially now. For those that take an interest in him and his current situation it seems to be either a hate or love, or condemn or praise attitude. There is but little room for middle ground.

But then reasonable minds can differ. That's simply how the world is and how it should be.

In the end no matter what any of his critics, supporters, or those of neutral or conflicting POV regarding Lance Armstrong, former World Champion and seven times Tour de France Winner the facts remain, and the facts regardless of the value one places on the morality of them are:

He was the fastest.
He was the strongest.
He was a sportsman.
He inspired.
He was the most accomplished.
He was the greatest of all time.

No words and NO ONE can ever change that. No notation in a "record book" can ever change the fact that he beat everyone, wore the Yellow Jersey and stood atop the podium.

History will decide. IMHO without any disrespect toward differing perspectives he will come out as described above.


HiVolt
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said by Insight6:

He was the fastest.
He was the strongest.
He was a sportsman.
He inspired.
He was the most accomplished.
He was the greatest of all time.

No words and NO ONE can ever change that. No notation in a "record book" can ever change the fact that he beat everyone, wore the Yellow Jersey and stood atop the podium.

He beat them all, and a majority of them were cheaters too, including his own team.
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FFH
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reply to ZZZZZZZ

Armstrong steps down as chairman of Livestrong cancer-fighting

Armstrong steps down as chairman of Livestrong cancer-fighting charity.
»www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/10/1···charity/

Lance Armstrong said Wednesday he is stepping down as chairman of his Livestrong cancer-fighting charity so the group can focus on its mission instead of its founder's problems.

Once Armstrong gave up the fight in August and the report came out, crisis management experts predicted the future of the foundation, known mainly by its Livestrong brand name, would be threatened.

The charity is now likely to suffer a long term slide in donations.
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Silvanos
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Tonawanda, NY
reply to Insight6

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

He will be remembered as an elite athlete who cheated.



JRW2
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said by Silvanos:

He will be remembered as an elite athlete who beat competitors who cheated.

Fixed it for you..

Other than testimony from others who either admitted they cheated or were caught cheating, I have seen no conclusive proof that Lance Armstrong ever cheated.
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bjf123
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1 recommendation

I've been kind of following this story since it came out, mostly because I have a few friends who are big into cycling, so I don't have a horse in this race. Maybe I'm missing something, but from what I've read, you've got a bunch of people who got caught doping saying Armstrong was doping, too. Weren't his accusers caught by failing blood or urine tests? Didn't Armstrong pass all the same tests? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
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JRW2
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said by bjf123:

Maybe I'm missing something, but from what I've read, you've got a bunch of people who got caught doping saying Armstrong was doping, too. Weren't his accusers caught by failing blood or urine tests? Didn't Armstrong pass all the same tests? Sounds like sour grapes to me.

That's my take on the situation...
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FFH
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reply to ZZZZZZZ

Nike drops Armstrong

»www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/sport···tml?_r=0

The fallout from the antidoping agency’s report also prompted Nike, the company that stood by Armstrong through more than a decade’s worth of doping allegations, to terminate his contract on Wednesday.

In a statement on Wednesday morning, Nike said the evidence that Armstrong had doped was so overwhelming that it could no longer partner with him. In the past, the company stood by athletes like Kobe Bryant, who was accused of sexual assault but never convicted; Michael Vick, who was convicted and served time in a federal prison for his role in a dogfighting ring; and Tiger Woods, who gained international notoriety for his extramarital affairs.

“Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him,” the statement said. “Nike does not condone the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in any manner. Nike plans to continue support of the Livestrong initiatives created to unite, inspire and empower people affected by cancer.”

There goes a huge chunk of his regular income.
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Silvanos
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reply to JRW2

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

My comment did not need fixing thanks anyway



JRW2
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said by Silvanos:

My comment did not need fixing thanks anyway

Yes it did, because there has been no proof, only accusations...
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