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Insight6

join:2012-08-25
reply to loli

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

said by loli:

Armstrong is indeed a wizard apparently.

Armstrong is a very polarizing individual, especially now. For those that take an interest in him and his current situation it seems to be either a hate or love, or condemn or praise attitude. There is but little room for middle ground.

But then reasonable minds can differ. That's simply how the world is and how it should be.

In the end no matter what any of his critics, supporters, or those of neutral or conflicting POV regarding Lance Armstrong, former World Champion and seven times Tour de France Winner the facts remain, and the facts regardless of the value one places on the morality of them are:

He was the fastest.
He was the strongest.
He was a sportsman.
He inspired.
He was the most accomplished.
He was the greatest of all time.

No words and NO ONE can ever change that. No notation in a "record book" can ever change the fact that he beat everyone, wore the Yellow Jersey and stood atop the podium.

History will decide. IMHO without any disrespect toward differing perspectives he will come out as described above.


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said by Insight6:

He was the fastest.
He was the strongest.
He was a sportsman.
He inspired.
He was the most accomplished.
He was the greatest of all time.

No words and NO ONE can ever change that. No notation in a "record book" can ever change the fact that he beat everyone, wore the Yellow Jersey and stood atop the podium.

He beat them all, and a majority of them were cheaters too, including his own team.
--



FFH
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reply to ZZZZZZZ

Armstrong steps down as chairman of Livestrong cancer-fighting

Armstrong steps down as chairman of Livestrong cancer-fighting charity.
»www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/10/1···charity/

Lance Armstrong said Wednesday he is stepping down as chairman of his Livestrong cancer-fighting charity so the group can focus on its mission instead of its founder's problems.

Once Armstrong gave up the fight in August and the report came out, crisis management experts predicted the future of the foundation, known mainly by its Livestrong brand name, would be threatened.

The charity is now likely to suffer a long term slide in donations.
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Silvanos
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Tonawanda, NY
reply to Insight6

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

He will be remembered as an elite athlete who cheated.



JRW2
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said by Silvanos:

He will be remembered as an elite athlete who beat competitors who cheated.

Fixed it for you..

Other than testimony from others who either admitted they cheated or were caught cheating, I have seen no conclusive proof that Lance Armstrong ever cheated.
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bjf123
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1 recommendation

I've been kind of following this story since it came out, mostly because I have a few friends who are big into cycling, so I don't have a horse in this race. Maybe I'm missing something, but from what I've read, you've got a bunch of people who got caught doping saying Armstrong was doping, too. Weren't his accusers caught by failing blood or urine tests? Didn't Armstrong pass all the same tests? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
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said by bjf123:

Maybe I'm missing something, but from what I've read, you've got a bunch of people who got caught doping saying Armstrong was doping, too. Weren't his accusers caught by failing blood or urine tests? Didn't Armstrong pass all the same tests? Sounds like sour grapes to me.

That's my take on the situation...
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FFH
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reply to ZZZZZZZ

Nike drops Armstrong

»www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/sport···tml?_r=0

The fallout from the antidoping agency’s report also prompted Nike, the company that stood by Armstrong through more than a decade’s worth of doping allegations, to terminate his contract on Wednesday.

In a statement on Wednesday morning, Nike said the evidence that Armstrong had doped was so overwhelming that it could no longer partner with him. In the past, the company stood by athletes like Kobe Bryant, who was accused of sexual assault but never convicted; Michael Vick, who was convicted and served time in a federal prison for his role in a dogfighting ring; and Tiger Woods, who gained international notoriety for his extramarital affairs.

“Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him,” the statement said. “Nike does not condone the use of illegal performance enhancing drugs in any manner. Nike plans to continue support of the Livestrong initiatives created to unite, inspire and empower people affected by cancer.”

There goes a huge chunk of his regular income.
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Silvanos
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reply to JRW2

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

My comment did not need fixing thanks anyway



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said by Silvanos:

My comment did not need fixing thanks anyway

Yes it did, because there has been no proof, only accusations...
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Silvanos
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There's still no reason for YOU to correct MY opinion.



loli
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South Richmond Hill, NY

1 recommendation

said by Silvanos:

I think turkey bacon is awesome.

Fixed that for you.


JRW2
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said by loli:

said by Silvanos:

I think turkey bacon is awesome.

Fixed that for you.

Bite your tongue!!!
Turkey bacon is an abomination!!!
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loli
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said by JRW2:

said by loli:

said by Silvanos:

I think turkey bacon is awesome.

Fixed that for you.

Bite your tongue!!!
Turkey bacon is an abomination!!!

That's why I typed that. To poke a little fun with fixing quotes

For real though, let's relax and take it easy and not get angry over all this. Only one we should care to reply to is ZZZZZZ who prefers guilty before proven innocent. I do wonder what Nike saw that made them decide to kill off the contract.


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said by loli:

I do wonder what Nike saw that made them decide to kill off the contract.

So do I...
I suspect there was no proof, but pressure from outside the company and investors...
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fatness
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reply to FFH

Re: Nike drops Armstrong

said by FFH:

Nike drops Armstrong

»www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/sport···tml?_r=0

Anheuser-Busch, Trek bicycles, Radio Shack, Giro (helmet manufacturers) and Honey Stinger also dropped him. He resigned from the FRS Co board.

I don't think Nike ever dropped Tiger Woods, did they? They dropped Vick but re-signed him when he got out of prison and had shaped up. And they removed Paterno's name from their child care center.
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JRW2
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said by fatness:

said by FFH:

Nike drops Armstrong

»www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/sport···tml?_r=0

Anheuser-Busch, Trek bicycles, Radio Shack, Giro (helmet manufacturers) and Honey Stinger also dropped him. He resigned from the FRS Co board.

I don't think Nike ever dropped Tiger Woods, did they? They dropped Vick but re-signed him when he got out of prison and had shaped up. And they removed Paterno's name from their child care center.

I think the later ones were just getting on the bandwagon so to speak, by dropping him...
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reply to fatness

said by fatness:

Anheuser-Busch, Trek bicycles, Radio Shack, Giro (helmet manufacturers) and Honey Stinger also dropped him. He resigned from the FRS Co board.

I don't think Nike ever dropped Tiger Woods, did they? They dropped Vick but re-signed him when he got out of prison and had shaped up. And they removed Paterno's name from their child care center.

It's strictly business, nothing else. Armstrong has been retired for over five years. He will now no longer compete in even triathletes as before. So he is done as competitor and as a dominant active athletic name. Now that isn't competing all and out of the sport for such a time all that is in the news is the doping. Nothing else. In only makes sense to drop him by most sponsors.

I also wouldn't compare him or Woods for that matter to Michael Vick convicted violent felon.

Vick certainly didn't shape up IMO. He simply served his time in the joint. He shaped up only in the most irrelevant sense in that he stopped running a dog fighting ring and stopped violently and brutally personally killing the dogs that lost their vicious fights he ran. Shaped up is not a term I personally would choose.

But...Vick can still compete at the most difficult team sport position in the world so that's the whole story. As soon as he goes into the dumpster and leaves the NFL so to will his sponsors leave him. Faster than Armstrong.


JRW2
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reply to ZZZZZZZ

Re: Armstrong getting caught up in lies

For all of you who are relishing the take-down of Armstrong, you have also probably succeeded in taking down Cycling too...

»www.cnn.com/2012/10/19/us/lance-···pt=hp_c1

quote:
The latest bad news came Friday when Dutch bank Rabobank announced it would no longer sponsor professional cycling teams after the controversy that has engulfed Armstrong and the cycling profession.

The bank, which has sponsored teams for the past 17 years, made it clear that its decision to end its sponsorships by the end of the year was to distance itself from the doping allegations.

"It is with pain in our heart, but for the bank this is an inevitable decision," said Bert Bruggink, of Rabobank's managing board.

"We are no longer convinced that the international professional world of cycling can make this a clean and fair sport. We are not confident that this will change for the better in the foreseeable future."
Was all this really worth the final outcome???
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J E F F
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said by JRW2:

For all of you who are relishing the take-down of Armstrong, you have also probably succeeded in taking down Cycling too...

Was all this really worth the final outcome???

You know what is really sad is that Armstrong would have his cycling fundraisers in Kitchener for our cancer centre, I think it raised something like $15 million in a short time span. That's a lot of money...now, gone away.
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reply to ZZZZZZZ

In ten years, probably less, doping or the use of PEDs will with restrictions and oversight be legal and controlled in many sports.



fatness
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reply to JRW2

said by JRW2:

For all of you who are relishing the take-down of Armstrong, you have also probably succeeded in taking down Cycling too...

People raced competitively on bicycles before there ever were sponsors. They'll continue to do with regardless of sponsorships or lack thereof.
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fatness
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reply to ZZZZZZZ

The Livestrong foundation doesn't even fund cancer research. Hopefully some of the sponsors Livestrong is losing will end up sponsoring charities that actually do cancer research.

quote:
I found a curiously fuzzy mix of cancer-war goals like "survivorship" and "global awareness," labels that seem to entail plastering the yellow Livestrong logo on everything from T-shirts to medical conferences to soccer stadiums. Much of the foundation's work ends up buffing the image of one Lance Edward Armstrong, which seems fair--after all, Livestrong wouldn't exist without him. But Livestrong spends massively on advertising, PR, and "branding," all of which helps preserve Armstrong's marketability at a time when he's under fire. Meanwhile, Armstrong has used the goodwill of his foundation to cut business deals that have enriched him personally, an ethically questionable move.
12-page article from January 2012
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Livestrong raises funds and awareness to help cancer survivors and those battling cancer in a variety of ways.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Arms···undation

The Charity Navigator along with other such charity rating agency gives Livestrong very high marks for seeing that the percentage of money taken it is spent on the charitable goals:

»www.charitynavigator.org/index.c···gid=6570

quote:
"The Livestrong brand was more about the foundation and fighting cancer than it ever was about Lance Armstrong," Matt Powell, an analyst at consultancy SportsOneSource told the Wall Street Journal.

Still, in a philantropy.com article, Lenkowsky points out that unlike the case with many other celebrity charities, Armstrong embodies Livestrong's mission: he is a cancer survivor.

Kevin Gallivan, a 47-year-old cancer survivor, says that he, for one, is able to compartmentalize the scandal and the cause. "He can be a liar, and he is, but it's not going to affect my life in any way other than cancer," Gallivan told Businessweek. "I wear a Livestrong band on my wrist, and I will until the day I die."
»www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/1···080.html

And a broader view and different perspective on the foundation.

»www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati···ories%29

Make no mistake about it, the foundation and the massive amount or level of good it does and the incredible amount of money raised over the years could not have been accomplished without Lance Armstrong accomplishments cycling and the tremendous consistent personal amount of time he has spent in actively promoting the foundation and its goals.

Speaking global and societal basis it is a sad commentary to see so many haters as opposed to critics of Armstrong that want to tear down, attack or hurt him and anything or anybody he is associated with regardless of the goodness or worth of same.

Lots of people in every country oppose what they feel Armstrong represents. However, their motives vary as much as night and day. They speak with "immunity."

Those that to various degrees speak positively or in outright support of Armstrong are routinely verbally attacked on a personal level.

The Livestrong foundation will survive and continue its good works but it will unlikely ever reach the heights of success of the past.


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said by Blogger:

The Charity Navigator along with other such charity rating agency gives Livestrong very high marks for seeing that the percentage of money taken it is spent on the charitable goals:

»www.charitynavigator.org/index.c···gid=6570

I don't see where that link says where the money is spent.

REVENUE
Total Contributions $29,724,618
Program Service Revenue $653,958
Total Primary Revenue $30,378,576
Other Revenue $11,888,834
TOTAL REVENUE $42,267,410

EXPENSES
Program Expenses $25,329,225
Administrative Expenses $1,946,759
Fundraising Expenses $4,277,423
TOTAL FUNCTIONAL EXPENSES $31,553,407

Payments to Affiliates $0
Excess (or Deficit) for the year $10,714,003
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fatness
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quote:
Most people—including nearly everybody I surveyed while reporting this story—assume that Livestrong funnels large amounts of money into cancer research. Nope. The foundation gave out a total of $20 million in research grants between 1998 and 2005, the year it began phasing out its support of hard science. A note on the foundation’s website informs visitors that, as of 2010, it no longer even accepts research proposals.

Nevertheless, the notion persists that Livestrong’s main purpose is to help pay for lab research into cancer cures. In an online “60 Minutes Overtime” interview after the May broadcast, CBS anchor Scott Pelley said Armstrong’s alleged misdeeds were mitigated because “he has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for cancer research.”

Pelley isn’t alone in getting that wrong: a search of The New York Times turns up dozens of hits for “Armstrong” and “cancer research.” An Associated Press story from August 2010 described Livestrong as “one of the top 10 groups funding cancer research in the United States.” The comments section of any article about Armstrong will inevitably include messages like this one from ESPN.com: “keep raising millions for cancer research lance, and ignore the haters.”
»www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad···l?page=3
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quote:
But the foundation’s financial reports from 2009 and 2010 show that Livestrong’s resources pay for a very large amount of marketing and PR. During those years, the foundation raised $84 million and spent just over $60 million. (The rest went into a reserve of cash and assets that now tops $100 million.)

A surprising $4.2 million of that went straight to advertising, including large expenditures for banner ads and optimal search-engine placement. Outsourcing is the order of the day: $14 million of total spending, or more than 20 percent, went to outside consultants and professionals. That figure includes $2 million for construction, but much of the money went to independent organizations that actually run Livestrong programs. For example, Livestrong paid $1 million to a Boston–based public-health consulting firm to manage its campaigns in Mexico and South Africa against cancer stigma—the perception that cancer is contagious or invariably fatal.

Livestrong touts its stigma programs, but it spent more than triple that, $3.5 million in 2010 alone, for merchandise giveaways and order fulfillment. Curiously, on Livestrong’s tax return most of those merchandise costs were categorized as “program” expenses. CFO Greg Lee says donating the wristbands counts as a program because “it raises awareness.”

This kind of spending dwarfs Livestrong’s outlays for its direct services and patient-focused programs like Livestrong at the YMCA, an exercise routine tailored to cancer survivors available at YMCAs nationwide ($424,000 in 2010). There’s also a Livestrong at School program, offered in conjunction with Scholastic magazine ($630,000 in 2010).
quote:
Livestrong spends as much on legal bills as on these two programs combined: $1.8 million in 2009–10, mainly to protect its trademarks. In one memorable case, its lawyers shut down a man in Oklahoma who was selling Barkstrong dog collars. Meanwhile, “benefits to donors” (also merchandise, as well as travel expenses for Livestrong Challenge fundraisers) accounted for another $1.4 million in spending in 2010.

There’s still a research department, but now it focuses on things like quality-of-life surveys of cancer survivors. During my visit, I was plied with glossy reports and brochures, which are cranked out by the truckload. The foundation’s 2010 copying-and-printing bill came to almost $1.5 million.

But Livestrong’s largest single project in 2009—indeed, the main focus of Armstrong’s comeback—was the Livestrong Global Cancer Summit, held in Dublin in August. The summit ate up close to 20 percent of the foundation’s $30 million in program spending that year.
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Silvanos
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reply to ZZZZZZZ

UCI agrees to strip Armstrong of his 7 Tour titles

»sports.yahoo.com/news/uci-agrees···spt.html

''Lance Armstrong has no place in cycling and he deserves to be forgotten in cycling,'' McQuaid said at a news conference. ''This is a landmark day for cycling.''

They gone.
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said by Silvanos:

''This is a landmark day for cycling.''

Yep, and it may be the very end of professional cycling as we know it too...
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