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leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

1 recommendation

reply to John Galt

Re: got my smart meter today

said by John Galt:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I wonder if the switch is "fail open" on power failures? That would shed a lot of load when restoring power in high usage times. After the power is restored the POCO could then reconnect a few at a time.

Probably fail closed...

Neither

It is a bistable (latching) relay. It just requires a momentary pulse to turn it either on or off and doesn't require any power at all to maintain the on or off state.
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
said by leibold:

It is a bistable (latching) relay.

But of course...


jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR
reply to jchambers28
Account number not found. Please contact customer support.
»www.myogepower.com/welcome/self-enrollment/ it's been 3 days still no work WTF. pashons is what i dont have.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
said by jchambers28:

Account number not found. Please contact customer support.
»www.myogepower.com/welcome/self-enrollment/ it's been 3 days still no work WTF. pashons is what i dont have.

Don't feel too bad. We're two years into a three-year Smart Meter pilot program here in Memphis, and MLGW still hasn't gotten their act together fully. Things mostly work right now, though.

tedmarshall

join:2000-12-02
reply to wa2ibm
said by wa2ibm:

I "lost" my Smart meter after I had a solar interconnect system installed.

During testing of the solar system, the Smart meter display showed power delivered and supplied. When I checked the stats online, I could clearly see when the solar system was generating power, reducing consumption initially, then going negative during the sunnier part of the day.

Then PG&E came out, removed the Smart meter and installed a mechanical meter that the guy said was required for interconnected systems. I lost all of that online data. Bummer.

That's because PG&E's IT people are too stupid to figure out how to do net-metering with the smart-meter data stream. My PV grid-tie install required removing the (recently installed) smart meter and replacing it with an electronic digital meter which records usage for the different TOU buckets and requires a meter reader to come out.

The stupid thing is even pre-programmed with obsolete daylight savings time start and stop dates. To cope with that, PG&E put the old dates in the tariff!

Supposedly, PG&E is getting close to being able to do TOU net-metering with smart meters.


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to leibold
said by leibold:

It is a bistable (latching) relay. It just requires a momentary pulse to turn it either on or off and doesn't require any power at all to maintain the on or off state.




Wayne
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49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
reply to weorthe
said by weorthe:

Got my smart meter a while ago. The city-owned power company ran fiber to its meters and sells cable/internet/phone service through it, busting the former (horrible) Comcast/ATT duopoly.

That cable coming out of the meter is a 120 volt tap to power the ONU.

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

Can't say much for the aesthetics. That installation is a visual disaster.

It really doesn't look bad at all.

Wayne
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49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
reply to jchambers28
said by jchambers28:

Account number not found. Please contact customer support.

Don't feel too bad it took FP&L seven months from the time of installation to begin reading our SM remotely.
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Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR
reply to jchambers28
There is a letter A with a X over it on the meter what does this mean?


Raphion

join:2000-10-14
Samsara
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to 49528867
Try as I might, I can't quite see how that mechanism works. I can see the solenoid pulling the contacts open, but I'm not understanding how it latches open.

And is there any kind of arc extinguisher? Or is that not necessary for a disconnect such as that?


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
The relay coil has red and blue wires since the polarity of the DC pulse determines the North and South pole on the U-shaped electromagnet.
The toggle contains a small permanent magnet sandwiched between the two steel plates you can see extending out of it on both sides.
Each pole of the electromagnetic will attract one plate and repel the other causing the toggle to switch. The permanent magnet in the toggle helps to keep it in place after power is removed from the electromagnet.

I don't know about arc suppression and the contact distance (in open state) looks very small. However in a previous discussion thread about smart meters it was explained that with the cover removed not all parts stay in the proper place and that properly assembled there is a safe gap between the open contacts.
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scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Raphion
By whatever means that these disconnect switches work, there appears to be some genuine concern over their safety - or lack thereof.

»1hope.org/hopeblog/unknown-safet···-switch/

Expand your moderator at work

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 edit

Re: got my smart meter today

Zack 58 stated above: "It's interesting that the POCO is equipping smart meters with the remote disconnect feature for typical accounts. Locally, the POCO only uses meters with remote disconnect on "problem" accounts and locations which prove to be high turn-over."

In fact, the manufacturer's literature that I've seen recommends that the remote disconnect switch be deployed sparingly, only where needed, exactly as Zack says his local POCO does it. This makes sense from both an economic (the switch is an added cost) and safety (risk of malfunction, risk of failure/fire) perspective.

In my case, my Smart Meter has remote disconnect as an option, but as far as I can tell it isn't installed (this is something that has to be factory-installed, BTW). These days, thanks to the economy there are now a plethora of rental homes in my neighborhood with relatively high-turnover rates, so I could maybe see the switches being deployed there, and also maybe at the various apartment complexes in the general vicinity.
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leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

1 edit
reply to Anon

Re: got my smart meter today

There are additional reasons given for the presence of the disconnect switch inside the smart meters:

- load limiting: it allows the utility to set a maximum load for each household at times when demand for electric power exceeds supply. The smart meter will automatically activate the disconnect switch if that limit is being exceeded. For the customers this means either cut back on usage during those times or risk being disconnected completely.

- finer granularity in emergency load shedding events: currently the utility can perform emergency load shedding by disconnecting entire neighborhoods (so called rotating outage blocks). With smart meter based load shedding can be targeted to a street or block or just a few homes. This means that no more customers are being disconnected then absolutely necessary. It also allows to retain power for customers with special needs (medical reasons) even if they are located in the middle of an area selected for emergency load shedding.

I'm not happy about having a disconnect switch in my meter but I do understand the reasons why it was put in there. If I were in charge of running a utility I'd probably want to have that level of control too.

There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons).
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Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by leibold:

There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons).

That would be true for 99.99 percent of POCO's in this country. The only interest they look out for is theirs and the governments.


Fronkman
An Apple a day keeps the doctor away
Premium
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO

1 recommendation

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by leibold:

There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons).

That would be true for 99.99 percent of POCO's in this country. The only interest they look out for is theirs and the governments.

They aren't going to disconnect someone for "excessive usage" as long as they are paying the bills. There is no way the POCO lawyers would allow that. How does the POCO know that someone isn't on a home ventilator or an oxygen concentrator? What if it is an old person in the South in the Summer? Do you think the POCO really wants that legal liability if they die?

Targeted rolling blackouts may make sense, but this doesn't happen in most location in the US, so it wouldn't really make sense for the POCO to install it for this purpose.

In terms of conspiracy theory, YOU need to tell us why. There have been lots of posts about how people WHO ACTUALLY HAVE smart meters note the ability of remote disconnect but that it isn't installed or enabled and others about how is would make financial sense in rental-dense areas.

You claim there is something nefarious. Tell us what it is.
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scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Fronkman

Re: got my smart meter today

said by Fronkman:

They aren't going to disconnect someone for "excessive usage" as long as they are paying the bills.

I don't know if that's necessarily the safest assumption to make. IF they have installed the remote disconnect capability in a particular meter, we would expect that they did so with the intent of actually using that capability someday. And IF the capability is there, then they WILL BE tempted to use it, in order to justify the expense of the switch itself.

As a business-person, I can think of many ways where a utility might creatively use the easy-on/easy-off capabilities of a remote disconnect feature, since there is no truck-roll expense involved and there's minimal delay. Some of these uses might even be justifiable. Remember, too, that not all utilities are as civically-minded as yours and mine might be. Don't forget that Enron and friends went so far as to have entire power-generation plants shut down on short notice whenever it was economically convenient for them to do so (it drove short-term power prices up dramatically). This caused rolling blackouts, and people sometimes DIED because of these, but AFAIK nobody was ever really held accountable for this.
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robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to Jack_in_VA

Re: got my smart meter today

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by leibold:

There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons).

That would be true for 99.99 percent of POCO's in this country. The only interest they look out for is theirs and the governments.

Hmmm. Our local electric cooperative is actually run by people who are elected by the members. Members are everyone who has an account. Where do you get your 99.99% figure?
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grobinette
Southeast of disorder
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-27
Springfield, VA
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to jchambers28

Re: got my smart meter today

Okay guys, back to the technical aspects of smart meters please.


jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR
reply to jchambers28
What does the A and the B mean on the meter?


jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR
reply to jchambers28
I was talking to a engineer who works for my poco he said the government is not allowing them to build anymore plants till 2020. Hence that's why they want people to conserve.


Raphion

join:2000-10-14
Samsara

1 recommendation

reply to leibold
Thanks, I understand it now. It was the fact that the toggle twists rather than moving up and down, and that a magnet in it makes it stick firmly one way or the other that I was missing.