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Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to kickass69

Re: [Other] Microsoft to Launch Tablet to Rival iPad?

I THOUGHT I knew what you meant until I sat down and forgo all the reviews/hate/whatever and actually learned it.

Since then I loved it, I am much more productive with it. I cannot wait to upgrade to Windows 8 on my work production workstation/server.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to JohnInSJ
Last I heard, Server 2012 is the same as Windows 8.

»www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2405165,00.asp


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by Razzy:

Last I heard, Server 2012 is the same as Windows 8.

»www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2405165,00.asp

If by the same you mean you get the metro screen and not the start menu when you login/press windows key, yes it is. If you mean it's the same OS, no, it is not

It's a server OS. You're not supposed to be using it all the time anyway!
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to kickass69
said by kickass69:

If Microsoft wasn't forcing desktop users to use a mobile interface then these analysts wouldn't have even brought it up. Especially forcing this interface on Server 2012. They could've released Windows 8 with the mobile interface for mobile devices while the traditional desktop interface stays on the desktop with 32-bit and 64-bit apps working on either.

Microsoft brought this issue on themselves by overreaching and not truly listening to all their customers...consumers and businesses alike.

They are not forcing me. I am like many who will be buying a new computer (still on XP Pro) before Windows 8 is released. I will use Windows 7 for the next 5-6 years. I'll be buying a new Dell Ultrasharp 24 inch monitor fairly soon too. I have no desire to mess up a $500 monitor with nasty fingerprints. Microsoft is supporting Win 7 until 2020 so they can go jump in the lake in regards to trying to force Metro on desktop users. They are just setting themselves up for a repeat of XP refusing to die...now it will be Win 7 refusing to die.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to JohnInSJ
Oh that's what I meant =) I did mean by Metro UI/Start Screen would be the same in 8 when you click "start".


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

They are just setting themselves up for a repeat of XP refusing to die...now it will be Win 7 refusing to die.

You'll never update to anything Mele

I would guess Win8 won't be an upgrade in enterprises, which are only just now starting to roll out win7. The one *after* win8 would be the one enterprises upgrade to, and that will address whatever UI tweaks are needed - plus by then everything will be touch-enabled, or able to read minds, or whatever the next big thing is.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Razzy
I think it’s a bit of an understatement to suggest that Metro is simply a Start menu replacement. I mean I agree that when I use it I can think of it as such but there are additional menu settings outside of the traditional Start menu that are accessible in Metro mode. I just think it’s a bit of an oversimplification to think of Metro as an expanded or glorified Start menu. I also fully expect that Microsoft will add even more menus and control panels to Metro in the future making the experience even more enveloping.

Anyway, I can deal with Metro (I kind of like it too now) and you can deal with it but clearly many others are either unwilling or unable to adjust to it. Metrosoft,….ummmm I mean Microsoft runs the risk of vilifying “Tiles”,…ummmm I mean “Windows” and its new Metro interface if it feels like a forced agenda to the user / administrator.

Real or not, if the perception is that Metro is an unusable dog then that is what it will be in the minds of the populous. In some cases reality is what people make it. In other words it’s the perception of reality, not necessarily reality itself that often shape our world.

Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to Mele20
"They are not forcing me. I am like many who will be buying a new computer (still on XP Pro) before Windows 8 is released. I will use Windows 7 for the next 5-6 years. I'll be buying a new Dell Ultrasharp 24 inch monitor fairly soon too. I have no desire to mess up a $500 monitor with nasty fingerprints. Microsoft is supporting Win 7 until 2020 so they can go jump in the lake in regards to trying to force Metro on desktop users. They are just setting themselves up for a repeat of XP refusing to die...now it will be Win 7 refusing to die."

I have to agree with you 100%. There is no way I will accept Win 8 on a desktop or laptop. I will stick with Win 7 till support ends if necessary, or if I really get desperate, I'll use linux. Forcing Metro on desktop/laptop users is the biggest farce I've ever seen...


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
Windows 8 has the same quasi built in success as its predecessors given that it will be preinstalled on new PCs, laptops, ultra books, tablets and so on. Maybe there will be a downgrade option but Microsoft sells to OEMs in all likelihood on a much larger scale then individual users and "a sale is a sale is a sale".

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to Kerodo
said by Kerodo:

"They are not forcing me. I am like many who will be buying a new computer (still on XP Pro) before Windows 8 is released. I will use Windows 7 for the next 5-6 years. I'll be buying a new Dell Ultrasharp 24 inch monitor fairly soon too. I have no desire to mess up a $500 monitor with nasty fingerprints. Microsoft is supporting Win 7 until 2020 so they can go jump in the lake in regards to trying to force Metro on desktop users. They are just setting themselves up for a repeat of XP refusing to die...now it will be Win 7 refusing to die."

I have to agree with you 100%. There is no way I will accept Win 8 on a desktop or laptop. I will stick with Win 7 till support ends if necessary, or if I really get desperate, I'll use linux. Forcing Metro on desktop/laptop users is the biggest farce I've ever seen...

You know your monitor gets dirty overtime? When you cough or sneeze or whatever? There are far more nasty stuff than fingerprints on many monitors =)


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

I have no desire to mess up a $500 monitor with nasty fingerprints.

Seriously. You don't have to have a touchscreen to run Windows 8.

And strangely enough, all those nasty fingerprints don't seem to bother the owners (myself included) of iPads ($500-$829) or other "touch" devices.

And a clean screen is a microcloth swipe away.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

1 edit
reply to Octavean
said by Octavean:

I think it’s a bit of an understatement to suggest that Metro is simply a Start menu replacement. I mean I agree that when I use it I can think of it as such but there are additional menu settings outside of the traditional Start menu that are accessible in Metro mode. I just think it’s a bit of an oversimplification to think of Metro as an expanded or glorified Start menu. I also fully expect that Microsoft will add even more menus and control panels to Metro in the future making the experience even more enveloping.

Anyway, I can deal with Metro (I kind of like it too now) and you can deal with it but clearly many others are either unwilling or unable to adjust to it. Metrosoft,….ummmm I mean Microsoft runs the risk of vilifying “Tiles”,…ummmm I mean “Windows” and its new Metro interface if it feels like a forced agenda to the user / administrator.

Real or not, if the perception is that Metro is an unusable dog then that is what it will be in the minds of the populous. In some cases reality is what people make it. In other words it’s the perception of reality, not necessarily reality itself that often shape our world.

Maybe. I do like it better than traditional Start Menu. Way better. I mean I don't see many people going through their "All Programs" list to run their software every time. I see them loading software via pinned taskbar OR desktop icons - that's it. Barely the start menu. And I'm very sure it will improve over time. This is just a start (no pun intended)

And yea there are way too many ignorant people here that just takes others word for it - just like Vista days. I expected it.

More info:

»blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011···een.aspx

Have you ever right clicked on start corner?


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by Razzy:

I see them loading software via pinned taskbar OR desktop icons - that's it.

I just type a few letters for what I want to run and then click it
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
said by JohnInSJ:

said by Razzy:

I see them loading software via pinned taskbar OR desktop icons - that's it.

I just type a few letters for what I want to run and then click it

I just type a few letters for what I want to run and then hit "enter".

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:

said by Mele20:

I have no desire to mess up a $500 monitor with nasty fingerprints.

Seriously. You don't have to have a touchscreen to run Windows 8.

And strangely enough, all those nasty fingerprints don't seem to bother the owners (myself included) of iPads ($500-$829) or other "touch" devices.

And a clean screen is a microcloth swipe away.

I have a Dell Ultrasharp 19" 5:4 LCD monitor that will be 9 years old November 1. It has about 28,000 hours on it and still is fine EXCEPT for spots mostly on the lower third of the screen that I can't wipe off. The spots are very noticeable on white backgrounds and beginning to irritate me. I think all Ultrasharps have non-reflective screens (they are aimed at corporate users mostly) and that is a main reason (besides they are great monitors) people buy them. The only way to clean them is with a soft cloth and that doesn't remove spots usually. You are supposed to be careful with them.

The Ipad and most laptop screens are highly reflective (although I think that craze has died down somewhat as I see laptops now with non-reflective screens). I don't know but I would think that a touch screen monitor would need to be a reflective one. I don't want a reflective monitor. Dell has just come out with a stunning all in one desktop that has gotten rave reviews but it has a non touch screen even though anyone buying it can upgrade to Windows 8 for $15 on it. Dell has not yet made any touch screen monitors and I doubt they will for the Ultrasharps and those are the only monitors I will consider.

I can see having reflective screens and touch ones for tablets, ultrabooks, but for most laptops no and definitely no for desktops.

Why would someone want to run Windows 8 without a touch screen? What would be the point in Metro?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:

said by JohnInSJ:

said by Razzy:

I see them loading software via pinned taskbar OR desktop icons - that's it.

I just type a few letters for what I want to run and then click it

I just type a few letters for what I want to run and then hit "enter".

Yep that works if the thing you want is the only thing found...
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:



Why would someone want to run Windows 8 without a touch screen? What would be the point in Metro?

live tiles provide ambient information when doing something other than working in a single application.

The "why would someone want" question is as old as time. Why would anyone need a PC? No one will ever need more than 640kb, etc, etc.

The answer is "someone does".
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to darcilicious
Yeah me too, most average people still doesn't know that they could just start typing and get what they want.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

Why would someone want to run Windows 8 without a touch screen? What would be the point in Metro?

I am more productive in it than previous Windows. I like the live tiles on the start screen - kept me in the loop better. And when I (finally) get a tablet - it'll work exactly the same way as Windows 8 but with a touch screen. I never used IE10 in Metro for any other reason beside checking it out on my desktop - just a regular IE10 browser. Sometimes I'd go into the stock or weather metro apps to check out the information I want - very useful informations right up front. This is all with using a mouse - no touchscreen on my home PC - I don't think I'd want a touchscreen for a while because of cost and I'm all about the screen quality (resolutions, DPI, colors, etc) more than touching the screen. Maybe I'll change my mind in a few years but right now, I don't want (or need) a touchscreen on my Windows 8 desktop.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

said by darcilicious:

said by Mele20:

I have no desire to mess up a $500 monitor with nasty fingerprints.

Seriously. You don't have to have a touchscreen to run Windows 8.

And strangely enough, all those nasty fingerprints don't seem to bother the owners (myself included) of iPads ($500-$829) or other "touch" devices.

And a clean screen is a microcloth swipe away.

I have a Dell Ultrasharp 19" 5:4 LCD monitor that will be 9 years old November 1. It has about 28,000 hours on it and still is fine EXCEPT for spots mostly on the lower third of the screen that I can't wipe off. The spots are very noticeable on white backgrounds and beginning to irritate me. I think all Ultrasharps have non-reflective screens (they are aimed at corporate users mostly) and that is a main reason (besides they are great monitors) people buy them. The only way to clean them is with a soft cloth and that doesn't remove spots usually. You are supposed to be careful with them.

Right. So don't touch the screen. This still doesn't prevent you from using Windows 8

Dell has not yet made any touch screen monitors and I doubt they will for the Ultrasharps and those are the only monitors I will consider.

Right. So don't touch the screen. This still doesn't prevent you from using Windows 8

I can see having reflective screens and touch ones for tablets, ultrabooks, but for most laptops no and definitely no for desktops.

Your lack of ability to "see" such a thing is your personal view/problem/limitation. I love my TOUCHSMART (glossy all-in-one touchscreen) desktop. I will be getting a second one (this one will become the kitchen wall-mounted media center after the remodel). Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean others won't find value in them.

Why would someone want to run Windows 8 without a touch screen? What would be the point in Metro?

Because it might be more productive for them? Because they like trying new things, keeping up with technology, staying up to date, or any other host of reasons?

But okay, so Windows 8 isn't for you. That's grand. Then don't get it. And don't complain about not getting it. Done and done.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to darcilicious
said by »blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011···een.aspx :

Keyboard and mouse

Because we have often demonstrated touch interactions with Start and its lineage in the Windows Phone Metro style, many believe that our design is all about touch rather than keyboard and mouse, or even that we’re putting the phone interface on a PC—it is neither.

For mouse people, the position of the Start button in the lower-left corner of Windows 8 makes it an easy click-target (even in a full-screen app). Once in Start, more items are directly accessible to the mouse without scrolling or opening menu flyouts. For keyboard people, pinning frequently used desktop apps on the desktop taskbar enables instant shortcuts: Win+1, Win+2, etc. And, getting to less frequently used apps through search follows the existing paradigm of hitting the Windows key and typing the search term. The larger search results improve speed (both for searching and browsing).

Of course, there are things we’re still working on, that aren’t yet finished in the Developer Preview. For example, we know there are bugs in interacting at high speed with the scroll wheel on the mouse, and we’re working on fixing these. We’re also adding the ability to instantly zoom out with the mouse and keyboard, and we’re looking at ways to make scrolling faster and easier. And, we are working on fixing a bug in the Developer Preview that causes inconsistent and slow page-down/page-up behavior. We’re also looking at making rearranging more predictable for mouse, keyboard, and touch.

One picture we often use to talk about change is the following. The y-axis is some measure of efficiency—such as time to complete a task, seconds it takes to do something, etc. The x-axis is calendar time. If someone is proficient with something and then a change takes place, there is by definition a dip in functionality. But after an adjustment period, the metrics of success improve. The net result is that over time, work becomes more efficient, even for the same task. And combined with new tasks and capabilities there is an overall net win.

Summary

The Windows 8, the Start screen is not just a replacement for the Windows 7 Start menu but a bringing together of several different ways of navigating your machine. Even in Windows 7, people who are proficient with Windows are already replacing the Start menu with the taskbar for their frequently used desktop apps.

For people using mostly desktop apps, the Start screen complements the functionality of the taskbar. Using both together, you have instant access to your most frequently used apps combined with a more powerful way to launch your less frequently used apps (through search or by grouping items on the Start screen). And, for Metro apps, Live tiles transform the Start screen into a dashboard that helps you stay up to date and connected in a high quality experience substantially improved over the notification tray. The new experience offers a way to more efficiently launch apps, stay connected to the most relevant information from apps, and find the things you care about. It also lets you launch and switch quickly between your apps and specific locations within those apps all without sacrificing performance or draining the battery of a laptop or tablet PC.



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to darcilicious
I think some people are making an inexplicable big deal out of touch input (or the lack thereof) and Windows 8.

For what its worth, I’ve run Windows 8 on the following test systems:
quote:
Asus Eee Slate EP121 Windows 7 Tablet PC (in VM) 12.1" multi-touch

HP Touchsmart IQ5xx 22" single touch (as Host OS)

Intel Core i5 2500K / Asus P8P67 Pro / Asus VE278Q 27" LED no touch (in VM)

Touch input or no touch input the OS worked fine and was perfectly serviceable. The only minor problem that I have encountered was with older proprietary single touch input systems which will cull the touch feature set and touch functionality but that is a limitation of the hardware not the OS.

You don't need a touch screen for Windows 8 people,....you just don't,..

My next test system will be on a a triple monitor setup (27", 22" and 19" with no touch support at all) on an Intel Sandy Bridge-E Core i7 3930K / Asus P9X79 Pro with 24GB of RAM (with possibly up to 720GB to ~1TB of pure SSD storage).


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
said by Octavean:

I think some people are making an inexplicable big deal out of touch input (or the lack thereof) and Windows 8.

Touch input or no touch input the OS worked fine and was perfectly serviceable

Indeed.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by darcilicious:

said by Octavean:

I think some people are making an inexplicable big deal out of touch input (or the lack thereof) and Windows 8.

Touch input or no touch input the OS worked fine and was perfectly serviceable

Indeed.

DOS worked fine too. Heck, CP/M worked great as well.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to darcilicious
I could also see the Windows 8 metro cash register at bars or resturant or any places you'd see employee hitting their screen with their yucky fingerz.

Also - touchscreen monitors could be using Gorilla Glass - so it'd be safe to bang (LOL) on the monitor.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
said by Razzy:

Also - touchscreen monitors could be using Gorilla Glass - so it'd be safe to bang (LOL) on the monitor.

Now there's a plan I can get behind!


natedj
Elected
Premium
join:2001-06-06
Columbia, SC
reply to darcilicious
Well lets see what Google has to say today, all in all I think that prices in general will be dropping.
Live blog coverage.
»live.cnet.com/Event/Google_IO_We···_Keynote
--
Good judgement comes with experience...Experience comes after bad judgements


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by natedj:

Well lets see what Google has to say today,

I'm sure all attendees get the latest android tablet that no one else will buy
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to JohnInSJ
said by JohnInSJ:

said by darcilicious:

said by Octavean:

I think some people are making an inexplicable big deal out of touch input (or the lack thereof) and Windows 8.

Touch input or no touch input the OS worked fine and was perfectly serviceable

Indeed.

DOS worked fine too. Heck, CP/M worked great as well.

This is in reference to my test hardware.

I have not tested any specific DOS version or CP/M on my test hardware. However, I am fairly certain that the statement you quoted doesn’t apply to your statement in part or in whole.

Without touch input it might work fine (might not be able to address the 24GB of RAM or 6 cores 12 threads,.. not sure) but I sincerely doubt that touch would work with such archaic OSes. Which was kind of the point of what you quoted in terms of working with or without touch input.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
said by Octavean:

This is in reference to my test hardware.

I have not tested any specific DOS version or CP/M on my test hardware. However, I am fairly certain that the statement you quoted doesn’t apply to your statement in part or in whole.

Without touch input it might work fine (might not be able to address the 24GB of RAM or 6 cores 12 threads,.. not sure) but I sincerely doubt that touch would work with such archaic OSes. Which was kind of the point of what you quoted in terms of working with or without touch input.

You could load DOS in VirtualBox and use onscreen keyboard