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bpFlamb

@execulink.com

still WISP or highspeed available in Flamborough

It is amazing how much the government has spent on research, but nothing is happening. I was told by our OTTAWA elected rep, that I should walk around and get signatures (yeah, walking around in Flamborough??) because the gov.reports say, we can all get highspeed.
Now check with BEll or anyone, the answer is always, NOT available.
The answer is the same, not enough population to spend money on. What?? Making Billions and not enough money? Spending :$225 million - see here and note the date
»www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/719.nsf/eng/home

And why does an elected politician ask me, a 70 year old disabled person to get info, if it is not true what the government has money on to find out?? Why was he elected then?

Where are the equal rights for all Canadians? Don't we pay enough taxes in Flamborough to Hamilton to be treated equally?
and here:
»pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?category=1&id=2702
also look at the date.

Now that most places wants us to use epost and get and pay our bills on-line, the government should force the big companies to make highspeed available to all. We do not live at the North Pole, we are now Hamilton.
(a very upset old person)



grayfox

join:2007-12-10
Whitby, ON

Have you tried Storm ?.

I have met and talked with their present CEO Dave, It sounds like they know what they are doing and are right on the ball.

The company has had some issues in the past. (They sold a chunk of their subscriber base to Xplornet then Xplornet installers confused everyone into thinking they were bought then Xplornet delivered the oversubscribed subpar service they are famous for that brings new meaning to the words up to.)

The deal they had to stay out of Xplornet area from what I understand is over now if you were in an area they were staying out of before you can probably expect to see them with the latest generation of wireless equipment that will beat the pants off any rural broadband you have ever seen before.

»storm.ca/

You can also check out the EORN website to see who else is in your area

They seem like good guys at storm that know what they are doing and I would strongly recommend you give them your business if they can service you. I do not think you would regret it.


scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

I know us at Bluwest www.bluwest.ca do not service that area yet but You could check www.megawire.ca they might service your area. Netflash might also but you will have to sign a contract and they have really small caps for what you pay according to their website. www.netflash.ca


xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20
reply to bpFlamb

Depending where in Flamborough you are, we may be able to reach you with Xplornet 4G wireless (tower on the Gore Road). If not, the new 4G Satellite is night and day to the old satellite.

PM me for more info if you like!



twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
kudos:3

said by xnetdealer:

Depending where in Flamborough you are, we may be able to reach you with Xplornet 4G wireless (tower on the Gore Road). If not, the new 4G Satellite is night and day to the old satellite.

PM me for more info if you like!

What exactly makes a satellite service "4G" ? Satellite service will always be the same and will always suck due to inherent latency issues.
--
Broadline Networks Inc.

xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20

4G=4th Generation network. A marketing term of course, but with capability of residential speeds of 10Mbps sustained and enterprise to 25Mbps, it is a next-gen technology. Currently 5Mbps packages are available.

Yes, there is some latency ~750ms or so, but for browsing, email, youtube, downloading, etc it works great. The only real issue is gaming. Even skype and voip work well on the new satellite.

This is a huge leap forward from the old satellite Internet. While yes, it still has latency (though significantly lower than the old systems) it's still a great system if you can't get wired service, with more consistent speeds and generous data allowances compared to the cellular products.



twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
kudos:3

Sorry but voip and skype aren't going to work properly on satellite service.
--
Broadline Networks Inc.


Shoot

join:2010-01-31
Castleton, ON
reply to xnetdealer

Xplornet is the last, very last choice. If you can't get online with a tin can and string then yes get xplornet but do yourself a favour and at all cost avoid their service.
Go online and find a positive thing said about them by someone who has had their service. Go ahead look. It will be tough to find. If it exists at all. Have a look at the Xplornet Facebook page. Lot's of love for them there.

»www.facebook.com/Xplornet?ref=ts


xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20
reply to twizlar

said by twizlar:

Sorry but voip and skype aren't going to work properly on satellite service.

Actually, they do. They really, actually do. It's much like a cell phone to cell phone conversation. If you were in the same room as the other person you would hear a lag but in practice it's not very noticeable.

If latency made voice and video calling impossible as you mention then sat phones and live video links would also be impossible.

Is Satellite the same as wireline in terms of latency? No, never will be, but it's very useable and WAY better than it used to be.

Have you actually tried the service that you're slagging?

xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20
reply to Shoot

said by Shoot:

Xplornet is the last, very last choice. If you can't get online with a tin can and string then yes get xplornet but do yourself a favour and at all cost avoid their service.
Go online and find a positive thing said about them by someone who has had their service. Go ahead look. It will be tough to find. If it exists at all. Have a look at the Xplornet Facebook page. Lot's of love for them there.

»www.facebook.com/Xplornet?ref=ts

The service is greatly improved compared to some of the older networks. Legacy Satellite and older unlicenced wireless (still being used in some areas) have their issues, including the burst/sustain traffic management, congestion, etc. The new 4G Wireless and 4G Satellite are a whole new world. If you can get cable/DSL/FTTN/FTTH, go for it! If you're in an area where it's Xplornet vs. a local wisp vs. cellular, Xplornet is worth considering.

Biased? Yes. But I'm also knowledgeable.

the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

3 edits
reply to xnetdealer

said by xnetdealer:

said by twizlar:

Sorry but voip and skype aren't going to work properly on satellite service.

Actually, they do. They really, actually do. It's much like a cell phone to cell phone conversation. If you were in the same room as the other person you would hear a lag but in practice it's not very noticeable.

If latency made voice and video calling impossible as you mention then sat phones and live video links would also be impossible.

Is Satellite the same as wireline in terms of latency? No, never will be, but it's very useable and WAY better than it used to be.

Have you actually tried the service that you're slagging?

My buddy has xplornet, we were talking on skype last night, it works OK. I would hardly brag about it being usable, after all, my friends voice has to go to space and back every time he says something.
So it works if we are patient and say a couple words and wait, back and forth.
It DOESNT WORK if we start talking in paragraphs or without waiting patiently for the delay.
Internet video is OK, but we certainly couldnt have video chat or any type of live video, its instantly laggy and choppy and none of the voice is even close to lining up.

Youtube works, but you need to wait for it to load enough to watch a video.

said by xnetdealer:

said by Shoot:

Xplornet is the last, very last choice. If you can't get online with a tin can and string then yes get xplornet but do yourself a favour and at all cost avoid their service.
Go online and find a positive thing said about them by someone who has had their service. Go ahead look. It will be tough to find. If it exists at all. Have a look at the Xplornet Facebook page. Lot's of love for them there.

»www.facebook.com/Xplornet?ref=ts

The service is greatly improved compared to some of the older networks. Legacy Satellite and older unlicenced wireless (still being used in some areas) have their issues, including the burst/sustain traffic management, congestion, etc. The new 4G Wireless and 4G Satellite are a whole new world. If you can get cable/DSL/FTTN/FTTH, go for it! If you're in an area where it's Xplornet vs. a local wisp vs. cellular, Xplornet is worth considering.

Biased? Yes. But I'm also knowledgeable.

Sorry, but physically speaking the delay to space and back is going to be MUCH longer than any wireless service which is antenna to tower ON EARTH.
Latency to space can never be improved and is always going to suck. Its a physics problem.
4G satellite is simply a bandwidth improvement, and cannot fix the fundamental flaw of latency to space.

xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20

Re: your buddy with Xplornet... which Xplornet network is it? It makes a big difference. The old Telesat or Hughes networks are much older and have far less capacity than the new Viasat bird. If he's on one of the old networks, he should upgrade.

Re: Latency... yes of course you're right the distance is a HUGE factor, but it really isn't as noticeable as you might think (except gaming, there you're pretty much screwed in an kind of live action game). But, it's WAY better than the old systems. Older satellite was often over 1 second, new is typically 600-800 ms. They've taken out a lot of the ground based latency.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be defensive, just trying to be helpful, annswer questions, and dispel some myths.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to bpFlamb

VoIP would likely work better over dialup. There are a few VoIP codecs like GSM that use little enough bandwidth to fit comfortably on a dialup connection, and dialup latencies can go as low as 150ms on a good line. It would also be a better solution for twitch gaming. It's not a GREAT solution, and most games would require tweaking to work with the amount of bandwidth available, but it's a better option for almost anything latency-sensitive. Because satellite latency is just that bad.

EDIT: there is not much point in doing VoIP over dialup, though. In order to do it, you would need a telephone line anyhow, at which point you might as well just get a cheaper long distance provider, which gets you most of the cost savings that VoIP would anyhow.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
kudos:3
reply to xnetdealer

said by xnetdealer:

said by twizlar:

Sorry but voip and skype aren't going to work properly on satellite service.

Actually, they do. They really, actually do. It's much like a cell phone to cell phone conversation. If you were in the same room as the other person you would hear a lag but in practice it's not very noticeable.

If latency made voice and video calling impossible as you mention then sat phones and live video links would also be impossible.

Is Satellite the same as wireline in terms of latency? No, never will be, but it's very useable and WAY better than it used to be.

Have you actually tried the service that you're slagging?

Actually it is exactly the same service in terms of the technology used. Viasat 1 still orbits at roughly the same height as the other similar broadband satellite systems and still has theoretical minimum latency of roughly 250ms each way (500ms total + the shitty routing provided by most sat providers). Even at 500ms most realtime applications including voip are going to be total crap.

Most sat phones use LEO satellites, not geosynchronous like viasat 1, so no the technology is not the same at all. Realtime video feeds are run on specialized systems not over IP like skype, etc.

I've used it multiple times, and it is perfectly fine for things like basic browsing and whatnot, but to say that it is in anyway comparable to land based wireless or wireline service is a complete joke.
--
Broadline Networks Inc.

file

join:2011-03-29
Riverview, NB

The point at which the average human being begins to notice the delay and try to adjust (be it subconsciously or conciously) is between 160-180ms. Anything above that and the experience is not like what you get from alternate solutions.

That being said VoIP *is* being run over satellite connections around the world. With the knowledge ahead of time that it is going over a satellite connection the experience can be tolerable. You can also reduce bandwidth consumption by trunking calls together to reduce IP overhead.

Sadly it's just what some people have to do... let us feel sad for them and enjoy our much better latency.


xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20
reply to twizlar

said by twizlar:

Actually it is exactly the same service in terms of the technology used. Viasat 1 still orbits at roughly the same height as the other similar broadband satellite systems and still has theoretical minimum latency of roughly 250ms each way (500ms total + the shitty routing provided by most sat providers). Even at 500ms most realtime applications including voip are going to be total crap.

Most sat phones use LEO satellites, not geosynchronous like viasat 1, so no the technology is not the same at all. Realtime video feeds are run on specialized systems not over IP like skype, etc.

I've used it multiple times, and it is perfectly fine for things like basic browsing and whatnot, but to say that it is in anyway comparable to land based wireless or wireline service is a complete joke.

Correct, theoretical minimum latency hasn't changed. Darn physics. What has changed is the ground based latency cause by caching etc.

I'm not saying satellite=ground based. I'm saying the new Xplornet satellite is much better than the old Xplornet satellite, and that because of inconsistent service quality, network congestion and such restrictive data caps on the cellular plans, for many rural homes Xplornet is the better option.

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

1 edit

Click for full size
Click for full size
With Xplornet If you have any issues you won't get any help from the dealer who installed the system be it fixed wireless or satellite since they cannot do anything unless a trouble ticket is created first. Current example, I run a wireless internet service and had a customer who was having issues connecting due to some trees so they ended their service with me and went with xplornet satellite service, well everything was great until the 30 day mark then the service went offline and has been offline now for 3 days. They called Northwind in Arthur who is a dealer and they either couldn't or wouldn't do anything for them. Needless to say they are now Bluwest customers again and now have a line of sight since we have a new location setup that they can see no problem. Best suggestion is go with a local wisp who owns their own hardware and maintains their own network because once your installed by a xplornet ****dealer**** they can just wash their hands of you since they already have been paid and all they loose is the petty $2-$3 commission per month plus they can't do anything without a pre approved work order from xplornet (can take days to get). Where if you have a local wisp they can fix you much faster and your also supporting local business and not some government grant hog that has it's head office in Woodstock, New Brunswick, and will go the way of HSFX and Everus, Omniglobe once the government grants dry up. In fact I have taken over 3 xplornet locations that xplornet closed down leaving paying customers high and dry, so I am thinking that the tap is almost run out for Xplornet anyways. Check out www.megawire.ca or www.netflash.ca they might be able to service you.

Just look at the pics I took when I was switching someone from Xplornet Satellite the brand new one..lol Still just as crappy. Grade F,

xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20

said by scorpido:

Still just as crappy. Grade F,

And I thought I was biased

Anyway... I don't believe in negative selling, so I won't. I'll just say that of course it makes sense to give the customer service and network folks the opportunity to trouble shoot on the phone before sending a tech out, and that Xplornet has invested/is continuing to invest hundreds of millions of dollars to get service to EVERY Canadian, coast to coast to coast. Local WISPs do good work as well, but their reach is limited and if you live in a valley or don't have LOS you'd be stuck with dial-up if Satellite wasn't an option.

Yes, of course an 800ms ping gets an F compared to urban services. But would you rather get 40kbps than 1.98Mbps? Me either.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

said by xnetdealer:

Xplornet has invested/is continuing to invest hundreds of millions of dollars to get service to EVERY Canadian, coast to coast to coast.

Well, that's a waste of money; their fixed wireless service is probably never going to be able to compete with Fibe or DOCSIS 3, so investing money to service somebody in an urban centre is probably a waste.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20

said by Guspaz See Profile]
Well, that's a waste of money; their fixed wireless service is probably never going to be able to compete with Fibe or DOCSIS 3, so investing money to service somebody in an urban centre is probably a waste.

It's not an investment to serve urban, it's an investment to serve rural and remote. Obviously Satellite is available in urban, you can't cut cities out of the spot beam, but it's clearly not configured/priced to compete with Cable or DSL, never mind Fibre.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. They are investing to reach every unserved or underserved Canadian, coast to coast to coast.


Shoot

join:2010-01-31
Castleton, ON
reply to xnetdealer

But would you rather get 40kbps than 1.98Mbps? Me either.

Then price this shit according to 1.98Mbps and stop charging people like your service is actually what you advertise because it is not. Just overpriced, overrated, oversold, underwhelming crap.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to bpFlamb

40 Kbps with 150ms of latency, or 1980 Kbps with 750ms of latency?

If I were stuck in a rural area, I'd take both, and use each for whichever was most appropriate. Latency sensitive things like games over the dialup, bulk data transfers over the satellite.

While I did outline some ideas for merging the two into one effective connection dynamically, a simpler approach is just to route different outbound ports through different connections. You can do that with iptables on your router without any remote server.

Basically, an outbound connection on port 27015 UDP should go through the dialup, since that's Half-Life, and twitch gaming. But an outbound connection on port 80 is browsing, that should go out over the satellite.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20

said by Guspaz:

40 Kbps with 150ms of latency, or 1980 Kbps with 750ms of latency?

If I were stuck in a rural area, I'd take both, and use each for whichever was most appropriate. Latency sensitive things like games over the dialup, bulk data transfers over the satellite.

While I did outline some ideas for merging the two into one effective connection dynamically, a simpler approach is just to route different outbound ports through different connections. You can do that with iptables on your router without any remote server.

Basically, an outbound connection on port 27015 UDP should go through the dialup, since that's Half-Life, and twitch gaming. But an outbound connection on port 80 is browsing, that should go out over the satellite.

Seems reasonable, for an expert! But can you even connect a dialup connection to a typical router?? (not saying you can't, I genuinely have no idea).


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to bpFlamb

I was assuming a computer for the router in that scenario, but you could probably do this with OpenWRT and a USB dialup hardware modem on a router that has USB ports.

Personally, if I was stuck living in a rural area, I'd maintain a full-blown PC router (something I don't bother with now) to handle all this, as well as to run a squid proxy or something to cache more stuff. Maybe act as a SPDY gateway or do some other sort of HTTP pipelining to reduce the effects of satellite latency.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

4 edits
reply to xnetdealer

said by xnetdealer:

Re: your buddy with Xplornet... which Xplornet network is it?

New, just installed a few weeks ago. Like I said before, its a physical latency problem, it takes too long to go to space and back. the bandwidth is less important to me.

said by xnetdealer:

Yes, of course an 800ms ping gets an F compared to urban services. But would you rather get 40kbps than 1.98Mbps? Me either.

Yes i'd rather have 40kbps 150ms ping than 1.98mbps with 800ms for lots of reasons. Mainly gaming, voip and other time sensitive applications (encrypted streams that wont work if theres too much latency/jitter as the key change is too quick).

Speedtest will even give a 100mbps connection an F if the latency is 800ms.....

Having said all this, I'd pick a local WISP if one is available, as the ping will likely be similar to dial up ~150-200ms and benefit from the added bandwidth.

said by Guspaz:

EDIT: there is not much point in doing VoIP over dialup, though. In order to do it, you would need a telephone line anyhow, at which point you might as well just get a cheaper long distance provider, which gets you most of the cost savings that VoIP would anyhow.

Well, if you dont want to disconnect the internet to use your phone line, VoIP can be a good option over dialup.
Sometimes you want to use the internet while someone else is on the phone.


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to bpFlamb

Where in flamborough?

Get me a grain leg over 110 feet Ill get a signal to it.
See my sig!
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

Not really any over in that area..lol Or I would already be there :P



Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
kudos:1
reply to xnetdealer

said by xnetdealer:

Seems reasonable, for an expert! But can you even connect a dialup connection to a typical router?? (not saying you can't, I genuinely have no idea).

Yes you can. You could even route specific protocols through one link/technology or the other if you cared to.... but personally I'd take dialup over Satellite Service in the blink of an eye.

And when you say "xPlornet is investing"... you truly mean they are spending gobs and gobs of mostly Government money to build a sub-par infrastructure with ridiculous promises of performance and no care to actually meet those promises... but we all understand that's implied of course.

xnetdealer

join:2012-07-20

said by Semaphore:

And when you say "xPlornet is investing"... you truly mean they are spending gobs and gobs of mostly Government money to build a sub-par infrastructure with ridiculous promises of performance and no care to actually meet those promises... but we all understand that's implied of course.

Sorry, but you speak of what you do not know. Yes, Xplornet has received gov't funding, to the tune of 10's of millions over the past half dozen years or so, but the latest figure I've seen in private capital funding for the company is over $800 million including the latest investments in the 2 newest high throughput satellites. Gov't money is a very small portion of the capital invested, and comes with very stringent (but realistic) technical compliance requirements and potential penalties.

Building a coast to coast network covering the lowest density populations is massively expensive. If it was easier and/or less expensive, the telco/cableco's would have already done it. And they are delivering what they promise. They just may not be delivering to your urban-biased expectation. I speak with happy customers every day (and a few unhappy ones, as does any company) and I can tell you from personal experience that both fixed wireless and satellite Internet are good technologies that meet the needs of most rural customers. But, like anything, one size does not fit all.


Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
kudos:1

LOL - really building an ISP is expensive ? Urban biased expectations ? Sorry chum but it's YOU who speaks of what you do not know.