dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
uniqs
51
« Generac GP17500E Generatornew AC unit »
page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next
This is a sub-selection from got my smart meter today

jchambers28
Premium Member
join:2007-05-12
Peculiar, MO

jchambers28

Premium Member

Re: got my smart meter today

How can i tell how many watts I am pulling from the poco? I am trying to figure out how many watts my central air conditioner uses.

Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue

Premium Member

said by jchambers28:

How can i tell how many watts I am pulling from the poco? I am trying to figure out how many watts my central air conditioner uses.

Well, if you have everything shut off but the AC, you can read the meter.

Or you can get a clamp device for a multi-meter, read the amps, volts, and do the math.
49528867 (banned)
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

49528867 (banned) to jchambers28

Member

to jchambers28
said by jchambers28:

How can i tell how many watts I am pulling from the poco? I am trying to figure out how many watts my central air conditioner uses.

Once the meter begins scrolling it will display a number of parameters, the one you want to watch out for is the number of kW being consumed.




Once you determine your baseline kW being consumed with the A/C off politely ask everyone else in the home to avoid using high wattage devices during the test and once that request is met turn on the A/C and take a new reading of the kW being consumed, the difference between the baseline and the current reading is youre A/C startup wattage consumption, take a fifteen minute or so break and re-read the meter and that difference is going to be real close to your average A/C wattage consumption.

Wayne

jchambers28
Premium Member
join:2007-05-12
Peculiar, MO

jchambers28

Premium Member

does my meter store any usage info.
49528867 (banned)
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

49528867 (banned)

Member

said by jchambers28:

does my meter store any usage info.

Yes.

Wayne

jchambers28
Premium Member
join:2007-05-12
Peculiar, MO
·Comcast XFINITY

1 edit

jchambers28

Premium Member

 
it's scrolling now closed and KWH. But no load data. I have to wait 3 days before setting up a account to look at usage tools at poco site:(. Too bad these do prevision as fast as cable boxes.

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold

MVM

Looks like your I-210+c is "fully loaded" with almost all optional features installed (except K2). We have the I-210+ (no c) and on ours the only feature codes are O, V2, F2, J2, U2.

Does anyone know the meaning of all the different factory feature codes ?
Most of the following are from GE publications but some are from similar discussions on the Internet:
O (I-210, I-210+) or A2 (I-210+c) = AMR Communications (allows an option board / plug in module to communicate with the meter)
E2 (I-210+c) = Event Log (allows the meter to record up to 200 events)
F2 = Demand limit
J2 = Emergency Load Reduction (two common 120V legs, no 240V)
K2 = Ability to measure kVA/h or kvar/h in addition to kW/h
N2 = Demand based metering/billing
Q2 = Power Quality monitoring
R2 = Load profile recording
S2 = Ability for AMR calculated demand value to be displayed
T2 = Time-Of-Use metering
U2 = Disconnect switch
V2 (I-210+) = Voltage Event Monitor (counts over and under voltage events)
Many options are only available on the I-210+c.

As for the storage of usage information, you need to distinguish between the actual electric meter made by GE and the smart meter add-on (made by Silver Spring Networks in our case).

The GE meter itself only stores total power but no usage history about when you consumed that power. However this total consumption information is retained even if the meter is disconnected from power for extended periods of time without any battery.

The smart meter add-ons (there are different kinds and their programming can be changed) do have sufficient memory to store meter readings without having to transmit those to the utility immediately. How much usage history is being retained inside the smart meter memory depends on how often it reads the meter (currently it is hourly for us here) and how often it transmits that data to the utility (currently once a day). If I remember a presentation by PG&E correctly they like to keep the meter reading and the reporting intervals set to values that prevents loss of information even if the meter is unable to report back to the utility for one whole week. The smart meter module will loose its stored values with loss of power but it does have a capacitor to provide power for a dying gasp transmission.

The meter display rotates through several displays, some of which are optionally and may be skipped if they don't apply (such as separate consumption counters for Time-of-Use, separate counters for received and delivered energy for grid-tie systems).

In your meter it appears that the upper line is used to show total kWh alternating with the status of the disconnect switch (closed) while the smaller lower line shows current load in kW (perhaps other values too?).
In our case the upper line shows total kWh alternating with display test (all 8's) and the lower line alternates between load in kW, line voltage and the status of the AMR communication module "Adl" followed by "on" (disconnect switch status ?).
Both meters have a display of 3 bars that are supposed to simulate the red or black marking on the rotating disc in old electro-mechanical meters.

jchambers28
Premium Member
join:2007-05-12
Peculiar, MO
·Comcast XFINITY

jchambers28

Premium Member

»www.oge.com/residential- ··· dSM2.pdf

01 = Current meter read.
The corresponding number indicates your kWh usage

wa2ibm
Premium Member
join:2000-10-10
San Jose, CA

wa2ibm to leibold

Premium Member

to leibold
I "lost" my Smart meter after I had a solar interconnect system installed.

During testing of the solar system, the Smart meter display showed power delivered and supplied. When I checked the stats online, I could clearly see when the solar system was generating power, reducing consumption initially, then going negative during the sunnier part of the day.

Then PG&E came out, removed the Smart meter and installed a mechanical meter that the guy said was required for interconnected systems. I lost all of that online data. Bummer.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

Then PG&E came out, removed the Smart meter and installed a mechanical meter that the guy said was required for interconnected systems. I lost all of that online data.

So it turns out the "smart" meter was not so smart after all. All that technology and it can't do net metering?
Zach
Premium Member
join:2006-11-26
Llano, CA

Zach

Premium Member

Sounds like the meter was too smart for the good of the customer. No need to pay peak rate for exported energy when all one has to do is take away the proof it was really generated during peak hours.
Zach

1 recommendation

Zach to leibold

Premium Member

to leibold
It's interesting that the POCO is equipping smart meters with the remote disconnect feature for typical accounts. Locally, the POCO only uses meters with remote disconnect on "problem" accounts and locations which prove to be high turn-over. The thought of widespread use of a 200A switch buried in the From 2S footprint is kind of spooky. Won't be long before smokes are required above the meter pan.

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

said by Zach:

Won't be long before smokes are required above the meter pan.

Good point...

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

I wonder if the switch is "fail open" on power failures? That would shed a lot of load when restoring power in high usage times. After the power is restored the POCO could then reconnect a few at a time.

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

said by Jack_in_VA:

I wonder if the switch is "fail open" on power failures? That would shed a lot of load when restoring power in high usage times. After the power is restored the POCO could then reconnect a few at a time.

Probably fail closed...

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by John Galt6:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I wonder if the switch is "fail open" on power failures? That would shed a lot of load when restoring power in high usage times. After the power is restored the POCO could then reconnect a few at a time.

Probably fail closed...

It would normally be closed with power on

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

said by Jack_in_VA:

It would normally be closed with power on

We should probably clarify the sequence of events...

In a power failure, the switch should close, and remain closed until the next shed event is called by the smart meter.

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

1 recommendation

leibold to John Galt6

MVM

to John Galt6
said by John Galt6:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I wonder if the switch is "fail open" on power failures? That would shed a lot of load when restoring power in high usage times. After the power is restored the POCO could then reconnect a few at a time.

Probably fail closed...

Neither

It is a bistable (latching) relay. It just requires a momentary pulse to turn it either on or off and doesn't require any power at all to maintain the on or off state.

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

said by leibold:

It is a bistable (latching) relay.

But of course...
tedmarshall
join:2000-12-02

tedmarshall to wa2ibm

Member

to wa2ibm
said by wa2ibm:

I "lost" my Smart meter after I had a solar interconnect system installed.

During testing of the solar system, the Smart meter display showed power delivered and supplied. When I checked the stats online, I could clearly see when the solar system was generating power, reducing consumption initially, then going negative during the sunnier part of the day.

Then PG&E came out, removed the Smart meter and installed a mechanical meter that the guy said was required for interconnected systems. I lost all of that online data. Bummer.

That's because PG&E's IT people are too stupid to figure out how to do net-metering with the smart-meter data stream. My PV grid-tie install required removing the (recently installed) smart meter and replacing it with an electronic digital meter which records usage for the different TOU buckets and requires a meter reader to come out.

The stupid thing is even pre-programmed with obsolete daylight savings time start and stop dates. To cope with that, PG&E put the old dates in the tariff!

Supposedly, PG&E is getting close to being able to do TOU net-metering with smart meters.
49528867 (banned)
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

1 recommendation

49528867 (banned) to leibold

Member

to leibold
said by leibold:

It is a bistable (latching) relay. It just requires a momentary pulse to turn it either on or off and doesn't require any power at all to maintain the on or off state.




Wayne

Raphion
join:2000-10-14
Samsara

Raphion

Member

Try as I might, I can't quite see how that mechanism works. I can see the solenoid pulling the contacts open, but I'm not understanding how it latches open.

And is there any kind of arc extinguisher? Or is that not necessary for a disconnect such as that?

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold

MVM

The relay coil has red and blue wires since the polarity of the DC pulse determines the North and South pole on the U-shaped electromagnet.
The toggle contains a small permanent magnet sandwiched between the two steel plates you can see extending out of it on both sides.
Each pole of the electromagnetic will attract one plate and repel the other causing the toggle to switch. The permanent magnet in the toggle helps to keep it in place after power is removed from the electromagnet.

I don't know about arc suppression and the contact distance (in open state) looks very small. However in a previous discussion thread about smart meters it was explained that with the cover removed not all parts stay in the proper place and that properly assembled there is a safe gap between the open contacts.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross to Raphion

Member

to Raphion
By whatever means that these disconnect switches work, there appears to be some genuine concern over their safety - or lack thereof.

»1hope.org/hopeblog/unkno ··· -switch/

Expand your moderator at work
scross

1 edit

scross

Member

Re: got my smart meter today

Zack 58 stated above: "It's interesting that the POCO is equipping smart meters with the remote disconnect feature for typical accounts. Locally, the POCO only uses meters with remote disconnect on "problem" accounts and locations which prove to be high turn-over."

In fact, the manufacturer's literature that I've seen recommends that the remote disconnect switch be deployed sparingly, only where needed, exactly as Zack says his local POCO does it. This makes sense from both an economic (the switch is an added cost) and safety (risk of malfunction, risk of failure/fire) perspective.

In my case, my Smart Meter has remote disconnect as an option, but as far as I can tell it isn't installed (this is something that has to be factory-installed, BTW). These days, thanks to the economy there are now a plethora of rental homes in my neighborhood with relatively high-turnover rates, so I could maybe see the switches being deployed there, and also maybe at the various apartment complexes in the general vicinity.
Expand your moderator at work

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

1 edit

leibold to Anon

MVM

to Anon

Re: got my smart meter today

There are additional reasons given for the presence of the disconnect switch inside the smart meters:

- load limiting: it allows the utility to set a maximum load for each household at times when demand for electric power exceeds supply. The smart meter will automatically activate the disconnect switch if that limit is being exceeded. For the customers this means either cut back on usage during those times or risk being disconnected completely.

- finer granularity in emergency load shedding events: currently the utility can perform emergency load shedding by disconnecting entire neighborhoods (so called rotating outage blocks). With smart meter based load shedding can be targeted to a street or block or just a few homes. This means that no more customers are being disconnected then absolutely necessary. It also allows to retain power for customers with special needs (medical reasons) even if they are located in the middle of an area selected for emergency load shedding.

I'm not happy about having a disconnect switch in my meter but I do understand the reasons why it was put in there. If I were in charge of running a utility I'd probably want to have that level of control too.

There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons).

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by leibold:

There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons).

That would be true for 99.99 percent of POCO's in this country. The only interest they look out for is theirs and the governments.