leibold MVM join:2002-07-09 Sunnyvale, CA Netgear CG3000DCR ZyXEL P-663HN-51
|
to jchambers28
Re: got my smart meter todayLooks like your I-210+c is "fully loaded" with almost all optional features installed (except K2). We have the I-210+ (no c) and on ours the only feature codes are O, V2, F2, J2, U2.
Does anyone know the meaning of all the different factory feature codes ? Most of the following are from GE publications but some are from similar discussions on the Internet: O (I-210, I-210+) or A2 (I-210+c) = AMR Communications (allows an option board / plug in module to communicate with the meter) E2 (I-210+c) = Event Log (allows the meter to record up to 200 events) F2 = Demand limit J2 = Emergency Load Reduction (two common 120V legs, no 240V) K2 = Ability to measure kVA/h or kvar/h in addition to kW/h N2 = Demand based metering/billing Q2 = Power Quality monitoring R2 = Load profile recording S2 = Ability for AMR calculated demand value to be displayed T2 = Time-Of-Use metering U2 = Disconnect switch V2 (I-210+) = Voltage Event Monitor (counts over and under voltage events) Many options are only available on the I-210+c.
As for the storage of usage information, you need to distinguish between the actual electric meter made by GE and the smart meter add-on (made by Silver Spring Networks in our case).
The GE meter itself only stores total power but no usage history about when you consumed that power. However this total consumption information is retained even if the meter is disconnected from power for extended periods of time without any battery.
The smart meter add-ons (there are different kinds and their programming can be changed) do have sufficient memory to store meter readings without having to transmit those to the utility immediately. How much usage history is being retained inside the smart meter memory depends on how often it reads the meter (currently it is hourly for us here) and how often it transmits that data to the utility (currently once a day). If I remember a presentation by PG&E correctly they like to keep the meter reading and the reporting intervals set to values that prevents loss of information even if the meter is unable to report back to the utility for one whole week. The smart meter module will loose its stored values with loss of power but it does have a capacitor to provide power for a dying gasp transmission.
The meter display rotates through several displays, some of which are optionally and may be skipped if they don't apply (such as separate consumption counters for Time-of-Use, separate counters for received and delivered energy for grid-tie systems).
In your meter it appears that the upper line is used to show total kWh alternating with the status of the disconnect switch (closed) while the smaller lower line shows current load in kW (perhaps other values too?). In our case the upper line shows total kWh alternating with display test (all 8's) and the lower line alternates between load in kW, line voltage and the status of the AMR communication module "Adl" followed by "on" (disconnect switch status ?). Both meters have a display of 3 bars that are supposed to simulate the red or black marking on the rotating disc in old electro-mechanical meters. |
|
·Comcast XFINITY
|
» www.oge.com/residential- ··· dSM2.pdf01 = Current meter read. The corresponding number indicates your kWh usage |
|
wa2ibm Premium Member join:2000-10-10 San Jose, CA |
to leibold
I "lost" my Smart meter after I had a solar interconnect system installed.
During testing of the solar system, the Smart meter display showed power delivered and supplied. When I checked the stats online, I could clearly see when the solar system was generating power, reducing consumption initially, then going negative during the sunnier part of the day.
Then PG&E came out, removed the Smart meter and installed a mechanical meter that the guy said was required for interconnected systems. I lost all of that online data. Bummer. |
|
|
Then PG&E came out, removed the Smart meter and installed a mechanical meter that the guy said was required for interconnected systems. I lost all of that online data. So it turns out the "smart" meter was not so smart after all. All that technology and it can't do net metering? |
|
Zach Premium Member join:2006-11-26 Llano, CA |
Zach
Premium Member
2012-Jun-16 9:03 pm
Sounds like the meter was too smart for the good of the customer. No need to pay peak rate for exported energy when all one has to do is take away the proof it was really generated during peak hours. |
|
Zach
1 recommendation |
to leibold
It's interesting that the POCO is equipping smart meters with the remote disconnect feature for typical accounts. Locally, the POCO only uses meters with remote disconnect on "problem" accounts and locations which prove to be high turn-over. The thought of widespread use of a 200A switch buried in the From 2S footprint is kind of spooky. Won't be long before smokes are required above the meter pan. |
|
John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp |
said by Zach:Won't be long before smokes are required above the meter pan. Good point... |
|
|
I wonder if the switch is "fail open" on power failures? That would shed a lot of load when restoring power in high usage times. After the power is restored the POCO could then reconnect a few at a time. |
|
|
John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp |
said by Jack_in_VA:I wonder if the switch is "fail open" on power failures? That would shed a lot of load when restoring power in high usage times. After the power is restored the POCO could then reconnect a few at a time. Probably fail closed... |
|
|
said by John Galt6:said by Jack_in_VA:I wonder if the switch is "fail open" on power failures? That would shed a lot of load when restoring power in high usage times. After the power is restored the POCO could then reconnect a few at a time. Probably fail closed... It would normally be closed with power on |
|
John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp |
said by Jack_in_VA:It would normally be closed with power on We should probably clarify the sequence of events... In a power failure, the switch should close, and remain closed until the next shed event is called by the smart meter. |
|
leibold MVM join:2002-07-09 Sunnyvale, CA Netgear CG3000DCR ZyXEL P-663HN-51
1 recommendation |
to John Galt6
said by John Galt6:said by Jack_in_VA:I wonder if the switch is "fail open" on power failures? That would shed a lot of load when restoring power in high usage times. After the power is restored the POCO could then reconnect a few at a time. Probably fail closed... Neither It is a bistable (latching) relay. It just requires a momentary pulse to turn it either on or off and doesn't require any power at all to maintain the on or off state. |
|
John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp |
said by leibold:It is a bistable (latching) relay. But of course... |
|
|
to wa2ibm
said by wa2ibm:I "lost" my Smart meter after I had a solar interconnect system installed.
During testing of the solar system, the Smart meter display showed power delivered and supplied. When I checked the stats online, I could clearly see when the solar system was generating power, reducing consumption initially, then going negative during the sunnier part of the day.
Then PG&E came out, removed the Smart meter and installed a mechanical meter that the guy said was required for interconnected systems. I lost all of that online data. Bummer. That's because PG&E's IT people are too stupid to figure out how to do net-metering with the smart-meter data stream. My PV grid-tie install required removing the (recently installed) smart meter and replacing it with an electronic digital meter which records usage for the different TOU buckets and requires a meter reader to come out. The stupid thing is even pre-programmed with obsolete daylight savings time start and stop dates. To cope with that, PG&E put the old dates in the tariff! Supposedly, PG&E is getting close to being able to do TOU net-metering with smart meters. |
|
49528867 (banned) join:2010-04-16 Fort Lauderdale, FL
1 recommendation |
to leibold
said by leibold:It is a bistable (latching) relay. It just requires a momentary pulse to turn it either on or off and doesn't require any power at all to maintain the on or off state.
Wayne
|
|
|
|
Raphion
Member
2012-Jun-17 11:14 pm
Try as I might, I can't quite see how that mechanism works. I can see the solenoid pulling the contacts open, but I'm not understanding how it latches open.
And is there any kind of arc extinguisher? Or is that not necessary for a disconnect such as that? |
|
leibold MVM join:2002-07-09 Sunnyvale, CA Netgear CG3000DCR ZyXEL P-663HN-51
|
The relay coil has red and blue wires since the polarity of the DC pulse determines the North and South pole on the U-shaped electromagnet. The toggle contains a small permanent magnet sandwiched between the two steel plates you can see extending out of it on both sides. Each pole of the electromagnetic will attract one plate and repel the other causing the toggle to switch. The permanent magnet in the toggle helps to keep it in place after power is removed from the electromagnet.
I don't know about arc suppression and the contact distance (in open state) looks very small. However in a previous discussion thread about smart meters it was explained that with the cover removed not all parts stay in the proper place and that properly assembled there is a safe gap between the open contacts. |
|
|
to Raphion
By whatever means that these disconnect switches work, there appears to be some genuine concern over their safety - or lack thereof. » 1hope.org/hopeblog/unkno ··· -switch/ |
|
your moderator at work
hidden : Off topic
|
scross 1 edit |
scross
Member
2012-Jun-18 10:56 am
Re: got my smart meter todayZack 58 stated above: "It's interesting that the POCO is equipping smart meters with the remote disconnect feature for typical accounts. Locally, the POCO only uses meters with remote disconnect on "problem" accounts and locations which prove to be high turn-over."
In fact, the manufacturer's literature that I've seen recommends that the remote disconnect switch be deployed sparingly, only where needed, exactly as Zack says his local POCO does it. This makes sense from both an economic (the switch is an added cost) and safety (risk of malfunction, risk of failure/fire) perspective.
In my case, my Smart Meter has remote disconnect as an option, but as far as I can tell it isn't installed (this is something that has to be factory-installed, BTW). These days, thanks to the economy there are now a plethora of rental homes in my neighborhood with relatively high-turnover rates, so I could maybe see the switches being deployed there, and also maybe at the various apartment complexes in the general vicinity. |
|
your moderator at work
hidden : Off topic hidden : Off topic
|
leibold MVM join:2002-07-09 Sunnyvale, CA Netgear CG3000DCR ZyXEL P-663HN-51
1 edit |
to Anon
Re: got my smart meter todayThere are additional reasons given for the presence of the disconnect switch inside the smart meters:
- load limiting: it allows the utility to set a maximum load for each household at times when demand for electric power exceeds supply. The smart meter will automatically activate the disconnect switch if that limit is being exceeded. For the customers this means either cut back on usage during those times or risk being disconnected completely.
- finer granularity in emergency load shedding events: currently the utility can perform emergency load shedding by disconnecting entire neighborhoods (so called rotating outage blocks). With smart meter based load shedding can be targeted to a street or block or just a few homes. This means that no more customers are being disconnected then absolutely necessary. It also allows to retain power for customers with special needs (medical reasons) even if they are located in the middle of an area selected for emergency load shedding.
I'm not happy about having a disconnect switch in my meter but I do understand the reasons why it was put in there. If I were in charge of running a utility I'd probably want to have that level of control too.
There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons). |
|
|
said by leibold:There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons). That would be true for 99.99 percent of POCO's in this country. The only interest they look out for is theirs and the governments. |
|
FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor away Premium Member join:2003-06-23 Saint Louis, MO
1 recommendation |
Fronkman
Premium Member
2012-Jun-18 12:48 pm
said by Jack_in_VA:said by leibold:There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons). That would be true for 99.99 percent of POCO's in this country. The only interest they look out for is theirs and the governments. They aren't going to disconnect someone for "excessive usage" as long as they are paying the bills. There is no way the POCO lawyers would allow that. How does the POCO know that someone isn't on a home ventilator or an oxygen concentrator? What if it is an old person in the South in the Summer? Do you think the POCO really wants that legal liability if they die? Targeted rolling blackouts may make sense, but this doesn't happen in most location in the US, so it wouldn't really make sense for the POCO to install it for this purpose. In terms of conspiracy theory, YOU need to tell us why. There have been lots of posts about how people WHO ACTUALLY HAVE smart meters note the ability of remote disconnect but that it isn't installed or enabled and others about how is would make financial sense in rental-dense areas. You claim there is something nefarious. Tell us what it is. |
|
your moderator at work
hidden : Trolling
|
|
to Fronkman
Re: got my smart meter todaysaid by Fronkman:They aren't going to disconnect someone for "excessive usage" as long as they are paying the bills. I don't know if that's necessarily the safest assumption to make. IF they have installed the remote disconnect capability in a particular meter, we would expect that they did so with the intent of actually using that capability someday. And IF the capability is there, then they WILL BE tempted to use it, in order to justify the expense of the switch itself. As a business-person, I can think of many ways where a utility might creatively use the easy-on/easy-off capabilities of a remote disconnect feature, since there is no truck-roll expense involved and there's minimal delay. Some of these uses might even be justifiable. Remember, too, that not all utilities are as civically-minded as yours and mine might be. Don't forget that Enron and friends went so far as to have entire power-generation plants shut down on short notice whenever it was economically convenient for them to do so (it drove short-term power prices up dramatically). This caused rolling blackouts, and people sometimes DIED because of these, but AFAIK nobody was ever really held accountable for this. |
|
your moderator at work
hidden : Off topic hidden : Off topic
|
robbin Mod join:2000-09-21 Leander, TX |
to Jack_in_VA
Re: got my smart meter todaysaid by Jack_in_VA:said by leibold:There clearly is a potential for misuse and abuse of this feature. It requires trust in the utility to be competent when making operational decisions and to act in the best interest of their customers. I'm pretty sure if there was a poll right now that PG&E would fall short in both areas in most peoples perception of the company (with good reasons). That would be true for 99.99 percent of POCO's in this country. The only interest they look out for is theirs and the governments. Hmmm. Our local electric cooperative is actually run by people who are elected by the members. Members are everyone who has an account. Where do you get your 99.99% figure? |
|