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dc2323

join:2012-06-17
Saint-Laurent, QC

[Homephone] Bell won't accept 30 day notice of porting number

Hi.
I am documenting my experience with Bell as I am cancelling all my services with them and trying to avoid their bogus charges in the process.

I have a Bell Bundle including Fibe 10 internet, and home phone with 4 calling features as well as Unlimited Canada & US long distance. I am NOT on any sort of contract.

After seeing that Bell kept increasing my bill every month from what it was initially, I decided to finally cancel all my services and port my phone number to another provider.

Being aware of the scams they usually try to pull with so-called "early cancellation fees" and other various other rip-offs, I spent hours online researching the right way to go about cancelling my service without giving a single dime to these crooks for services they have not provided.

I called today at about 4:00 pm and I told the rep that I wanted to give 30 day cancellation notice for the internet, the long distance and all the calling features. Basically I told her that I would cancel ALL my services in 30 days EXCEPT the basic residential phone line. I told her I won't be cancelling my landline because I would be porting my number out to another carrier.

She said that I only needed to give 30 day cancellation notice for the internet service, not for the long distance or the calling features. She said I could cancel those at any time. I don't know whether to believe her as they usually try to sneak in bogus charges for those too. So I told her to add a note to my file to cancel the long distance and the calling features in 30 days to have proof that I gave notice for those too.

I also told her that I even though I was not cancelling my basic home phone I was giving them 30 day notice that I will be porting my number out to another carrier.

At first she tried to deceive me saying that I did not need to give 30 days notice and that the new carrier would handle the transfer. Only after direct questioning about possible charges she said yes that they would charge me because they need 30 day notice.

So I told her I wanted to give the 30 day notice right now so that in 30 days I can port my number out.

She told me that that was impossible, that I could not give 30 day notice. She said that the new provider would transfer the service and that I would still have to pay for 30 days after the new carrier ported the number, even though they will NOT be providing any service.

I told her that was not possible. That she had to accept my 30 day notice as required by terms of service, but she hung up on me.

I called later and got another rep and I basically repeated all my requests but he also said that I could not give a 30 day notice to port out my number and that i would still have to pay their bogus charge because that was their policy.

I told him that I have a right to port my number and they have a right to ask for 30 day notice. What they don't have a right to do is ask for notice and then refuse to accept it in order to pull a bogus charge.

He refused to transfer me to a supervisor.

This is a very sneaky way of ripping off customers who decide to leave in order to penalize them for leaving or coerce them into staying.

The level of shamelessness from the freeloaders at Bell is amazing. They tell you that only the new carrier can port the number and that they consider "the notice" given at the time when the carrier does the porting so that the "30 day notice" required is in fact just a penalty for leaving them. This is illegal as people have a right to port out their number when they want, provided they give notice.

Any ideas on what I should do next to avoid their bogus charges?


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

Re: [Homephone] Bell won't accept 30 day notice of porting numbe

I would document & record these conversations, and port out your number accordingly, and then file a CCTS complaint with the information that you attempted to give them 30 days notice and they refused to take it. And when they charge you the extra 30 day notice, you can then take that to the CCTS and try them to rule in your favour for a credit.

We've discussed this in the past, how this is an absolute horrible practice with number porting, since it doesn't give the customer the chance to give the 30 days notice and use out the service for which they have paid for.

This should not be allowed.
--
GO BLUE JAYS!


decx
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Vancouver, BC
reply to dc2323
Also, it is not generally recommended that the customer inform (in any way) the losing provider in a phone number port. Once the provider notes that the customer will be cancelling the account (
whether now or in 30 days), the account will be locked in terms of LNP and the losing provider will reject any LNP requests even though the number remains functional and active.


QuantumPimp

join:2012-02-19
Reviews:
·voip.ms

2 edits
reply to dc2323
said by dc2323:

Hi.
I told him that I have a right to port my number and they have a right to ask for 30 day notice. What they don't have a right to do is ask for notice and then refuse to accept it in order to pull a bogus charge.

He refused to transfer me to a supervisor.

Yes, I recently had this very same experience. I had DSL on the same line and during the LNP process DSL was terminated too. Originally I had placed the call to provide 30 days notice to cancel DSL service when the agent insisted I also provide notice for the landline.

When arguing with the service agent I said they had to reconnect the DSL service because there was zero chance I would pay for two undelivered services. Instead of submitting a ticket to re-connect the DSL service, the agent "forgave" the charges for the landline and both services were terminated immediately pro-rated to that day. Mighty big of them eh?

Moving service away from Bell was purely a business decision and I previously had no complaints of Bell. Now however, they've poisoned the well. It would take a *lot* to woo me back.

Luckily, I previously had a dry loop installed with TekSavvy DSL service so I had no interruption in DSL services.

Why do they purposely behave so poorly and cultivate this reputation? Its completely bizarre.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to dc2323
When our customers are porting out from Bell, we advise them to call and cancel ONLY their Internet service. We give them the option of dating their order 30 days in advance OR we give them a free month of service to switch now.

Even when we due date our orders 30 days out, Bell still typically bills them 30 days from the date they port out, and force them to call and argue it.

The whole process is pretty messed up.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


nonBell

@avaya.com
I think there is a difference for those with and without bundled service. When I ported out my residential service to TekSavvy, I automatically received credit for the unused portion of the month (as Bell is pre-paid). I never have any bundled service and had residential service with Bell since 1990 and two moves in between.

I wonder if it is possible to move away from a bundle then port out. Or once you are in a bundle (therefore some contract) you are out of luck.

freejazz_RdJ

join:2009-03-10
kudos:1
reply to HeadSpinning
They are not bullshitting. If there is a pending order, the LNP request will get rejected by most carrier IT systems. The solution to the 30 day notice problem is to call the carrier you want to port to and have them issue the port order immediately with a due date 30 days out. Most providers cannot grasp this when you ask, so it may take some work and several calls.

Basically, it makes your new provider send the port notice to the old provider 30 days out. That gives the 30 day notice on your behalf. It should suffice, but you may have to fight anyways.

dc2323

join:2012-06-17
Saint-Laurent, QC
reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

I would document & record these conversations, and port out your number accordingly, and then file a CCTS complaint with the information that you attempted to give them 30 days notice and they refused to take it. And when they charge you the extra 30 day notice, you can then take that to the CCTS and try them to rule in your favour for a credit.

This should not be allowed.

Thanks. This is exactly what I will do.
By filing the CCTS complaint now, I will have written PROOF that I in fact gave them notice 30 days in advance.

I read online somewhere that some people wait until Bell bills them for the fraudulent charge and then complain to the CCTS. Why would you wait idly when they are cooking up all sorts of bogus charges? You know you are going to get shafted by Bell in the end. Why give them the upper hand?

It is much better to file the complaint with the CCTS as soon as they tell you they won't accept your 30 day notice. Not only do you start the process sooner but if you file the complaint 30 days before the actual porting, the complaint in itself is PROOF that you gave said notice.

The refusal to accept the 30 day notice of porting your number is on its own, a violation of their own terms of service and is sufficient grounds to initiate a complaint. It is also a violation of CRTC orders and goes against the CCTS recommendations regarding local number portability.

I also thought about recording the conversation. Unfortunately I don't own a recorder and I don't want to spend more money just so I can deal with these crooks.

I wish there was a way to give the 30 day notice to cancel your service or port your number by email. Of course no email address is indicated on the Bell website for this because it would leave an electronic trace and would prevent them from claiming you didn't give 30 day notice.


BellPortOut

@nexicom.net
reply to freejazz_RdJ
For Bell, you can ask them add a port out notification feature. This feature will not prevent porting out to other carriers.

You can call and complain Bell to ask them credit you the money otherwise you will complain to CCTS and CCTS will force them to refund you money for no service after port out...

»www.howardforums.com/showthread.···-NOT-PAY

dc2323

join:2012-06-17
Saint-Laurent, QC
reply to decx
said by decx:

Also, it is not generally recommended that the customer inform (in any way) the losing provider in a phone number port. Once the provider notes that the customer will be cancelling the account (
whether now or in 30 days), the account will be locked in terms of LNP and the losing provider will reject any LNP requests even though the number remains functional and active.

Yes. This is exactly what all the telcos recommend.
Bell is fully aware of this and uses it to their advantage.

When the customer calls Bell to give them notice that they will be porting their number, Bell can try to illegally cancel the account so that the number cannot be ported.

Or alternatively, when the new provider calls to port the number, Bell will say that the customer never gave them 30 day notice and will bill the customer for an extra 30 days for "not giving the 30 day notice".

Remember, Bell doesn't actually want any notice. If they did they would have accepted it when I gave it. This is just a clever pretext to steal money from you by claiming that they suffered some prejudice for not being informed of the transfer 30 days in advance and then charging you 30 days extra as "compensation" for their "loss".

dc2323

join:2012-06-17
Saint-Laurent, QC
reply to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:

Even when we due date our orders 30 days out, Bell still typically bills them 30 days from the date they port out, and force them to call and argue it.

The whole process is pretty messed up.

Thank you for confirming this.
When the new provider informs them of the porting 30 days in advance they ALSO bill the customer for an extra 30 days.

This is what the second rep told me. They consider the notice given AT THE TIME of the actual transfer. It is obvious Bell doesn't want any notice. It is a just way to pull their fraudulent charges and have a good excuse to cover their asses or make themselves out to be the victims for not receiving "notice".

dc2323

join:2012-06-17
Saint-Laurent, QC
reply to freejazz_RdJ
said by freejazz_RdJ:

They are not bullshitting. If there is a pending order, the LNP request will get rejected by most carrier IT systems. The solution to the 30 day notice problem is to call the carrier you want to port to and have them issue the port order immediately with a due date 30 days out. Most providers cannot grasp this when you ask, so it may take some work and several calls.

Basically, it makes your new provider send the port notice to the old provider 30 days out. That gives the 30 day notice on your behalf. It should suffice, but you may have to fight anyways.

I personally would prefer that the new provider would handle everything as I do not enjoy losing my time arguing with the dishonest people at Bell. However I do not favour this approach for these reasons:

1. The Terms of Service (ie. the binding legal document that I agreed to with Bell) requires the customer to give 30 day notice when terminating the service or porting my number out to another provider. The terms of service CANNOT require the new provider to give 30 day notice because the new provider DIDN'T SIGN any legal document with Bell. This is why if I fail to give notice they charge ME, not the new provider. If it actually was the responsibility of the new provider to give the 30 days notice why would they charge ME, for something that is not my reponsibility and I have no control over? It is obvious it is the customer who has the legal responsibility to notify Bell of the transfer.

2. Since the new provider doesn't have to pay if they screw up, they have no incentive for doing it right. Most likely they don't care about this, they could forget or simply port the number when it is most convenient for them as any charge would not be coming out of their wallet.

3. Maybe like you say, Bell's IT system does not accept a notice to port out the number but this is just a reflection of some internal policy to screw the customer over. If they really required a notice from the customer but the system doesn't allow it, wouldn't they have called their IT guy long ago to implement this feature on their system?

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to dc2323
Since you're in Québec you can also involve the Consumer Protection Office (Office de la protection du consommateur: »www.opc.gouv.qc.ca/ ) and it might be a good idea to get in touch with a law firm that does class action lawsuits. I'm thinking there are quite a few people getting screwed this way by Bell and those two things are pretty much the only things that will really get their attention.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to dc2323
said by dc2323:


Thank you for confirming this.
When the new provider informs them of the porting 30 days in advance they ALSO bill the customer for an extra 30 days.

This is what the second rep told me. They consider the notice given AT THE TIME of the actual transfer. It is obvious Bell doesn't want any notice. It is a just way to pull their fraudulent charges and have a good excuse to cover their asses or make themselves out to be the victims for not receiving "notice".

They may consider the port out due date as the notice date, but they're dead wrong. The date the new provider issues the LSR to the old carrier is the notification date.

If they argue it, tell them to check the order date with the Local Migration group.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to dc2323
said by dc2323:

2. Since the new provider doesn't have to pay if they screw up, they have no incentive for doing it right. Most likely they don't care about this, they could forget or simply port the number when it is most convenient for them as any charge would not be coming out of their wallet.

At least in our case, we care. We don't want the customer to be out of pocket, or have ANY reason for Bell to entice the customer back.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

freejazz_RdJ

join:2009-03-10
kudos:1
reply to dc2323
The LSR issued by your new service provider should constitute notice. If it doesn't for Bell, then someone should raise this issue on the regulatory side. To my knowledge, the LSR does constitute notice because the whole point of the LNP process is that the customer doesn't have to contact their old service provider.

As for the pending order issue, it isn't really a policy decision. All of the legacy billing/ordering systems for telcos have limitations surrounding pending orders. For most, you can't have 2 orders queued up; only 1 order at a time can be pending or in progress. Even if there isn't that IT limitation, a pending order is a conflict for porting because the order action could contradict the port request. What if there is already a port, a move or a disconnection in the system; should whatever port request comes in simply cancel whatever the pending order is?

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
You can have multiple orders pending against a line except for an out order. Once there is an out order pending, nothing else can be issued unless it is cancelled.

The only exception is a subsequently authorized port out request, which will cancel the out order associated with the pending (older) port out request, and trigger a a new PL Version of the LSC to the first provider stating that the original port out was cancelled due to more recent authorization.

The whole port out process gets messy when for example Bell is re-selling service to another provider (Teksavvy, Primus, Allstream, etc.), and doesn't inform them of the port out. The customer is left having to argue it, and the reseller is left not knowing what's going on.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

freejazz_RdJ

join:2009-03-10
kudos:1
I see the Canadian way of working is different. For some carriers, multiple port attempts for a single TN will lock all the ports requests and puts them in conflict or rejected status. And everyone has to start fresh. But each carrier is different: the logic on handling request (conflict management, slamming detection, etc) can be fully customized in the LNP software I worked with (LSMS-SOA by SAIC).


xsbell

join:2008-12-22
Canada
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Primus Telecommu..
reply to dc2323
said by dc2323:

Any ideas on what I should do next to avoid their bogus charges?

The easiest way to do it would be to check your billing date and give your cancellation notice (for internet only) one to two days before that.

You don't need to give Bell any notice when switching phone providers and you will not get any cancellation fees, as long as you cancel within a couple days of your billing period.. or they'll charge you for each day past the billing date. Or they'll even credit you if you did it a couple days before your billing date.

Every time I initiated the LNP, Bell gave back an FOC date of exactly one week later, and it was always completed on that seventh day.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
said by xsbell:

You don't need to give Bell any notice when switching phone providers and you will not get any cancellation fees, as long as you cancel within a couple days of your billing period.. or they'll charge you for each day past the billing date. Or they'll even credit you if you did it a couple days before your billing date.

Every time I initiated the LNP, Bell gave back an FOC date of exactly one week later, and it was always completed on that seventh day.

Bad advice. If the customer is in a contract, there may be Early Termination Fees.

If the customer is in an area forborne from rate regulation, they require 30 days notice.

Bell doesn't assign the FOC date - the porting out carrier provides the requested due date - the FOC only confirms it. The only time you'll get a due date different than the one requested is if the order gets PF'ed, and they have to assign a due date later than requested.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


xsbell

join:2008-12-22
Canada
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Primus Telecommu..
said by HeadSpinning:

said by xsbell:

You don't need to give Bell any notice when switching phone providers and you will not get any cancellation fees, as long as you cancel within a couple days of your billing period.. or they'll charge you for each day past the billing date. Or they'll even credit you if you did it a couple days before your billing date.

Every time I initiated the LNP, Bell gave back an FOC date of exactly one week later, and it was always completed on that seventh day.

Bad advice. If the customer is in a contract, there may be Early Termination Fees.

True, but the OP said he wasn't under any contracts so he shouldn't encounter any early termination fees.

Ah okay, thanks for that info!