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codydog

join:2001-11-29
Newport, RI
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

[RI] Will Cox compete with Verizon?

With Verizon's new Quantum product, (appears to be higher speeds at lower prices than Cox), will Cox compete?

Curious, as I like Cox, but when my contract is up, its gonna be tough to stay with Cox when Verizon has better speeds at lower prices.

lilstone87

join:2009-04-09
Portsmouth, VA
kudos:3
said by codydog:

With Verizon's new Quantum product, (appears to be higher speeds at lower prices than Cox), will Cox compete?

Curious, as I like Cox, but when my contract is up, its gonna be tough to stay with Cox when Verizon has better speeds at lower prices.

Here is a real simple answer for questions like this. If you have the option of FIOS in your area, and internet speeds matter to you. You need to switch to FIOS, because cable company's like cox are a lot more limited compared to FIOS using FTTH. So it's possible cox can raise speeds a bit with more, and more markets starting to see upstream bonding. But really at this point, Cox really can't compete with FIOS speed wise. Also reason why FIOS is so limited in its deployments, because of the cost behind building out a FTTH network.

I do see upload speeds getting better with cable internet, and its D3 service. But don't expect any tiers with matching download, and upload speeds any time soon. To tell the truth, If I had the option for FIOS in my area, I would of switched over. But Verizon is known for its billing issue's, which is one thing you will have to stay on top of yourself.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
said by lilstone87:

I do see upload speeds getting better with cable internet, and its D3 service.

Oh? what cableco is doing 65mbps upload? FTTH *will* always be superior as there won't be peak hour slowdowns on fibre like cable.


bbeesley
VIP
join:2003-08-07
Richardson, TX
kudos:5
said by dvd536:

FTTH *will* always be superior as there won't be peak hour slowdowns on fibre like cable.

Since PON is also a shared infrastructure - the single fiber is shared with up-to 32 ONUs and the upstream interface from the OLT is also shared amongst the individual OLT line interfaces... you could end up with 500 or so users aggregating into a single gig uplink - PON FTTH also can suffer from "peak hour slowdowns" if the network isn't properly managed

I can tell you that I periodically experience slowdowns on FIOS here in Dallas just like I might see slowdowns on cable

once again, fiber is not a panacea and coax can be engineered to have similar capacities and capabilities should user demand drive it.

lilstone87

join:2009-04-09
Portsmouth, VA
kudos:3
reply to dvd536
said by dvd536:

said by lilstone87:

I do see upload speeds getting better with cable internet, and its D3 service.

Oh? what cableco is doing 65mbps upload? FTTH *will* always be superior as there won't be peak hour slowdowns on fibre like cable.

Did I say anything about matching FIOS upload speeds? No, I don't think I did. I just said I do believe cable upload speeds will get better with D3, and upstream bonding. If you read my message, I pretty much told him, if FIOS is an option, he would be best to switch. But to remember to stay on top of billing himself, since that's one of verizon's biggest issue's, and reason some people have left there service.

The main reason cable co's like cox can really compete with verizon FIOS, is because of how limited there deployment is imo. Because with how much more limited cable co's are with bandwidth compared to a FTTH service. There really isn't no way they can compete with speed offerings, and pricing. But with how much bigger of a footprint they cover vs FTTH services, and still offer decent speeds, it keeps the playing field a lot more even imo.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to bbeesley
said by bbeesley:

said by dvd536:

FTTH *will* always be superior as there won't be peak hour slowdowns on fibre like cable.

Since PON is also a shared infrastructure - the single fiber is shared with up-to 32 ONUs and the upstream interface from the OLT is also shared amongst the individual OLT line interfaces... you could end up with 500 or so users aggregating into a single gig uplink - PON FTTH also can suffer from "peak hour slowdowns" if the network isn't properly managed

I can tell you that I periodically experience slowdowns on FIOS here in Dallas just like I might see slowdowns on cable

once again, fiber is not a panacea and coax can be engineered to have similar capacities and capabilities should user demand drive it.

Well as an engineer you know best but i don't see *any* cableco offering anything near 65mbps upload!

user drive *is* demanding it but no HFC is *offering it or listening*
i can't count how many years ive been harping on more upload.

to be honest i think cable is afraid they'll bastardize their lucrative biz packages thats why they're holding upload speeds down.


N10Cities
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Fort Smith, AR
reply to codydog
Never mind that Cox has a data cap and Verizon FIOS does not (last I remember)...

lilstone87

join:2009-04-09
Portsmouth, VA
kudos:3
reply to dvd536
said by dvd536:

said by bbeesley:

said by dvd536:

FTTH *will* always be superior as there won't be peak hour slowdowns on fibre like cable.

Since PON is also a shared infrastructure - the single fiber is shared with up-to 32 ONUs and the upstream interface from the OLT is also shared amongst the individual OLT line interfaces... you could end up with 500 or so users aggregating into a single gig uplink - PON FTTH also can suffer from "peak hour slowdowns" if the network isn't properly managed

I can tell you that I periodically experience slowdowns on FIOS here in Dallas just like I might see slowdowns on cable

once again, fiber is not a panacea and coax can be engineered to have similar capacities and capabilities should user demand drive it.

Well as an engineer you know best but i don't see *any* cableco offering anything near 65mbps upload!

user drive *is* demanding it but no HFC is *offering it or listening*
i can't count how many years ive been harping on more upload.

to be honest i think cable is afraid they'll bastardize their lucrative biz packages thats why they're holding upload speeds down.

I don't know if the demand is that high for 65mbps of upload. But I do believe its higher then the current 5mbps upload that cox offers on there highest speed tier in most markets, with a couple area's with 8mbps on ultimate. Really if the demand is that high for someone, they should of picked a better spot to live, or think about moving. Because that's really there best option at this point, and will be for a while.

lilstone87

join:2009-04-09
Portsmouth, VA
kudos:3
reply to N10Cities
said by N10Cities:

Never mind that Cox has a data cap and Verizon FIOS does not (last I remember)...

Yes I think this is something cox has to review as a company, just like Comcast has done recently. Because imo its more of a negative effect on the company, and there service. Because they are simply saying go over our cap three times, and say goodbye for a year. Which really who is that hurting more? I say the company losing money from a paying customer.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to N10Cities
said by N10Cities:

Never mind that Cox has a data cap and Verizon FIOS does not (last I remember)...

And VZ has tv too however they don't have to worry about legacy video because theirs isn't overly compressed like cable*

* I say cable and not cox because compression is one of the biggest beefs among ALL cablcos, not just cox.

PQ is king!!1

Rob_
Premium
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL
kudos:1
Verizon doesn't have caps on FIOS either.. why they did this crap on their phone service is beyond me.

-Rob


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to dvd536
said by dvd536:

And VZ has tv too however they don't have to worry about legacy video because theirs isn't overly compressed like cable

an artefact of traditional analogue video delivery systems. fios has no expectation of this -- and as such -- every tv requires an stb (wherein additional improvements such as mpeg4 across the entire channel line-up can be had)
vz doesn't do iptv delivery -- they are using similar delivery mechanisms to traditional msos, just over glass (vz is using rfog delivery technology).

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
reply to Rob_
If you are talking about Verizon Wireless cellular service, they did it because cellular wireless, even LTE, has a much more limited capacity for data transmission than a FTTH system. Too many subscribers for each tower, viewing videos for too long. The network engineers never would have promoted "unlimited" anything. That is a proven formula for disaster. "Unlimited" was promoted by the marketing department staff who cannot tell the differences between WiFi and cellular. All they know is that it is wireless internet access for the mobile device they have and they can watch endless movies and cute cat videos from the World Wide Web on it. If all your "unlimited" cellular subscribers act that way, you will go bankrupt trying to satisfy their unlimited bandwidth demands.

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
reply to dvd536
With cable channels at 6MHz width and upstream DOCSIS 3.0 limited to a range of 5MHz to 42MHz you only get 6 possible channels theoretically. To get proper reduction of interference the modems seem to be limited to 4 upstream channels. 27Mbps per channel multiplied by 4 gives 108 Mbps theoretical upstream. But, the physical cable plant was never designed to do upstream this way. So there have been technical problems in getting upstream to work correctly. Even Motorola and Cisco admitted at the recent Cable Show that upstream channel bonding was much more difficult to deploy successfully than downstream channel bonding, and that the industry was going to have to expend a lot more money than previously forecast to provide decent consistent upstream data rates.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to Rob_
said by Rob_:

Verizon doesn't have caps on FIOS either.. why they did this crap on their phone service is beyond me.

Because raping the sub is standard op policy for everyone on any[us] phone company.