Topic 'Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:45:25 EDT

KrK posted : It was a 2200ish sq. foot home but it's not better then mine. Bigger lot, some nice features.... but mine has nice features as well that make it unique, which is why I bought it. :D

It had an awesome backyard which was well protected, shaded, had a gazebo and a nice covered patio... but neglect and vandalism had taken their toll, and now it's all history.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:21:03 EDT

David posted : my thought... If the house was much better than yours I would have found the funds to fix it up and move in. Rent the current house you have out and be a landlord.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:55:55 EDT

KrK posted :

said by John Galt:

If the city ordinances do not specifically address the issue, they have no basis for action.

Well, I think the part you quoted:

"produce for human consumption grown in a tended and cultivated garden."

Is quite relevant.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:47:10 EDT

John Galt posted :

said by KrK:

It doesn't fit the definition of the cultivated garden for produce in the ordinance, no. I realize there are other types of gardens.... and they have to meet standards. I can't let my front yard be a jungle and then escape code enforcement by claiming it's a garden.... nope.

If the city ordinances do not specifically address the issue, they have no basis for action.

Perhaps you're for arbitrary and capricious enforcement, eh? :p
--
»www.archive.org/details/Meatpies_1984

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:17:43 EDT

KrK posted : It doesn't fit the definition of the cultivated garden for produce in the ordinance, no. I realize there are other types of gardens.... and they have to meet standards. I can't let my front yard be a jungle and then escape code enforcement by claiming it's a garden.... nope.

People have tried claiming trash in their yards was art and decorations, too.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:57:09 EDT

John Galt posted :

said by KrK:

There's more to that story. The so called "garden" was the front yard, and it really was a mess and wasn't really being cultivated or an actual garden.

You really don't know much about this, do you?

Just because it doesn't fit your definition of "garden" doesn't mean that it is not...

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 19:45:21 EDT

KrK posted : There's more to that story. The so called "garden" was the front yard, and it really was a mess and wasn't really being cultivated or an actual garden.

The person had had previous run-ins with Code enforcement and IMHO tried to use a loophole to set up this situation with intents to embarrass and sue. Maybe not, but either way I understand why her neighbors complained. She sure milked it too, claiming it was her method of supporting herself, she was unemployed and they took her livelihood, yadda, yadda, yadda.

From pictures I saw, there was no evidence of any actual cultivation or harvesting of said plants, it just looked like an overrun jungle.

The picture here (taken from the video) shows what it currently looks like, after abatement. It needs more abatement. They may be edible, but it's hardly a cultivated garden... IMHO

--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:27:50 EDT

John Galt posted :

said by magnetron:

It's funny that you bring that up. I just saw a story about a woman that is suing Tulsa over the removal of her garden by code enforcement.

Looks like there might be issues...!

quote:
Grass type ground cover cannot be over 12 inches in height, except healthy trees, shrubs, or produce for human consumption grown in a tended and cultivated garden.

»www.cityoftulsa.org/community-pr···ons.aspx
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»www.archive.org/details/Meatpies_1984

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:20:23 EDT

Fronkman posted :

said by magnetron:

said by John Galt:

Might be a good opportunity for a community garden...

There are public spaces on both sides, with a public access walkway. It is low-impact and looks better than 'weeds'. If the lot sells, then there is no big deal bulldozing the garden and building.

It's funny that you bring that up. I just saw a story about a woman that is suing Tulsa over the removal of her garden by code enforcement.

»www.newson6.com/story/18802728/w···e-garden

That is a really odd story.

I don't understand why there would be an ordinance against plants over 12 inches tall. I can understand that people don't want overgrown poorly maintained yards, but based on the "before and after" pictures in that article, the "after" looks WAY worse.

It looks like they used highly unmotivated teenagers to do the gardening...
--
Everyone should own a Mac! Go Bucks!

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:52:37 EDT

magnetron posted :

said by John Galt:

It's funny that you bring that up. I just saw a story about a woman that is suing Tulsa over the removal of her garden by code enforcement.

»www.newson6.com/story/18802728/w···e-garden

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:32:52 EDT

John Galt posted : Might be a good opportunity for a community garden...

There are public spaces on both sides, with a public access walkway. It is low-impact and looks better than 'weeds'. If the lot sells, then there is no big deal bulldozing the garden and building.

We have that here on many lots that are undeveloped...property owners here are pretty good about going along with that.

Just a thought...
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»www.archive.org/details/Meatpies_1984

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:07:59 EDT

CylonRed posted : Less of an eyesore than the house. When communities take down buildings - they need to do it as cheap as possible. They are going to require full landscaping unless you and your friends would like to pay a lot more in taxes.

Especially in communities that have a lot of houses than need to be taken down.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:02:04 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by Hall:

Squatters can't live in weeds and trees (well, I guess they can). An empty lot isn't a fire or safety hazard.

True but that lot compared to the rest of the neighborhood is an eyesore. :(

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:42:15 EDT

John Galt posted :

said by Fronkman:

I don't know, I hired a demolition contractor to do my landscaping...

Well then, that was part of his contract. As to the demo contractor in the discussion, probably not.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:40:11 EDT

Fronkman posted :

said by John Galt:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I also think that it should have been graded and seeded.

Probably not part of the demolition contractors contract.

I don't know, I hired a demolition contractor to do my landscaping...
--
Everyone should own a Mac! Go Bucks!

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:38:51 EDT

John Galt posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

I also think that it should have been graded and seeded.

Probably not part of the demolition contractors contract.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:32:53 EDT

Hall posted : Squatters can't live in weeds and trees (well, I guess they can). An empty lot isn't a fire or safety hazard.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:15:58 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by Fronkman:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Whoever paid them to clear and "clean" the lot should demand a refund on some of the money. That is a lousy job of clearing and leveling the lot.

It isn't like a new house is immediately going back in there. Foundation-grade leveling is overkill for an empty lot. Would you want your tax dollars to pay for a "perfectly graded" empty lot?

I was more referring to the unsightly weeds and other vegetation the failed to remove. Look closely at the four pictures:

»Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

I also think that it should have been graded and seeded. Otherwise it's just going to be an overgrown weed and junk tree eyesore. They could have left the house there if that's the case.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:43:01 EDT

Fronkman posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

Whoever paid them to clear and "clean" the lot should demand a refund on some of the money. That is a lousy job of clearing and leveling the lot.

It isn't like a new house is immediately going back in there. Foundation-grade leveling is overkill for an empty lot. Would you want your tax dollars to pay for a "perfectly graded" empty lot?
--
Everyone should own a Mac! Go Bucks!

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:39:49 EDT

CylonRed posted : Apparently someone did not read the same story I did and it was not 'stolen' for not mowing the grass. If you lived next to the mess described and lowering YOUR home values....
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:48:49 EDT

nunya posted : Much better! I don't think they did such a bad job, all things considered.

I know everyone has been saying "buy the lot" - do you actually have any interest in purchasing the lot?

Judging from the neighbors houses, it looks like a well established neighborhood where someone might be interested in building again.
--
...because I care.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:32:48 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted : Whoever paid them to clear and "clean" the lot should demand a refund on some of the money. That is a lousy job of clearing and leveling the lot.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:27:30 EDT

KrK posted : This is what it looks like now.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:25:19 EDT

KrK posted : Well... it was Detroit.... :D

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:50:02 EDT

Nick_L posted : Does this park area end at your property line or does it continue behind the property in question? I was thinking, perhaps an agreement with the neighbor on the far side (and the city) could be worked out. Move the "right of way" to the middle of the now vacant property. You get rid of the "traffic" right next to your home and both you and the neighbor would gain some extra green space. Of course the property would have to be purchased and the details worked out with the city, blah, blah, blah, but it might be worth looking into if you plan on staying there for a period of time.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:37:08 EDT

garys_2k posted :

said by aurgathor:

Renting out can be an option in some places.

Definitely true, I guess in these cases not enough professional landlords/developers thought they were even worth that. Imagine, a (practically) free house, no back tax bills, and nobody was interested. Pretty sad.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:21:58 EDT

aurgathor posted :

said by garys_2k:

Oh, and all of the no-bid houses weren't derelicts, either. Just no market for them given the neighborhoods and economics. If it takes $50,000 to fix a place up to code and you couldn't get $40,000 for it, what to do is pretty clear.

Renting out can be an option in some places.
--
Wacky Races 2012!

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:13:01 EDT

garys_2k posted : While some houses can be sold to "somebody" for rehab, that's not true everywhere. Detroit has held several distressed property auctions where people could bid for ANY price, taxes forgiven, if they intended to fix them up. Many, many places had no bids placed at all, not even $1. Sometimes it's just not worth it and the track hoe is the only option.

Oh, and all of the no-bid houses weren't derelicts, either. Just no market for them given the neighborhoods and economics. If it takes $50,000 to fix a place up to code and you couldn't get $40,000 for it, what to do is pretty clear.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:11:45 EDT

KrK posted : My understanding is they went out of business when the housing market crashed.

Probably got caught holding a lot of property when the crunch came and they folded.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:48:51 EDT

marigolds posted : In the discussion about economically recovering the house...
remember that the house had already been sold to a flipping firm who abandoned it.

I suspect they found out something about the house that made it not worthwhile to flip (e.g. drugs manufactured in the house if the son was a "gangbanger" type). And that was before the arson and vandalism.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:21:58 EDT

anon posted :

said by robbin:

The house which was destroyed can no way be classified as urban renewal.

You'd be amazed at what can be done in the name of urban renewal. The next town over declared that a bunch of land which never had anything built on it to be "blighted", took over the land, then turned it over to a developer who built a 900,000 sq ft shopping mall.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:09:02 EDT

Hall posted :

said by MaynardKrebs:

This is you big opportunity to buy the vacant lot @ a firesale price and put up that big swimming pool you've always wanted.

The city of Dayton has a "program" of that sort. KrK should check into Tulsa's offerings to see if there's something similar. Or, just make an offer. Remember, the city likely has to maintain the property and just mowing the grass (by the city) is money they'd probably prefer not to spend.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:33:30 EDT

telco_mtl posted :

said by Critsmcgee:

It's right between the two properties.

in my town we had quite a few of those, due to the above mentionned issues they have gotten rid of most of them, there was a street that was shaped like a letter P, it had 3 of these pedestrian cut throughs at various locations, all have been removed now.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:13:41 EDT

Critsmcgee posted :

said by robbin:

I looked real closely at the pics and I can't see a sidewalk on either side. Where is it in the pics?

It's right between the two properties.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:03:11 EDT

aurgathor posted :

said by nunya:

I've turned a few turds into diamonds. From the description and looks of that place. The best you'd get from that turd would be coal.

I've seen houses in worse condition go for over 100k around here in the Seattle area, in auctions. On the other side of the Cascades anywhere between 10k - 100k, depending on location. If someone can do drywall, fixing up a home like this is not that expensive.
--
Wacky Races 2012!

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:52:58 EDT

KrK posted : Found some more of my pictures. This is the hallway leading to bedrooms and bathroom off the main kitchen/Den area. Note the smoke damage, and the holes in the wall the vandals made.

Also note, however, the structural wood framing, in excellent condition. The whole house was that way. Even the places where the fire damaged the ceiling and the firemen pulled it down, the wood framing was almost undamaged. The photo I took of the Den ceiling (the one with insulation hanging down) showed the worst of the charring but didn't come out very well. (It was dark in there, sorry about the bad photos.)

I also included a photo from a bedroom that shows some of the smoke damage and junk typical in the rest of the home.

Bah, it seems like such a waste to me.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:35:54 EDT

KrK posted : Actually, having been inside it, it needed new drywall and cabinets and countertop in the kitchen, new ceiling in the kitchen, new drywall and ceiling in the Den and smoke cleanup and vandalism repair. It was structurally sound, the plumbing and wiring hadn't been ripped out by copper thieves. It still had some furniture, clothing, and tons of trash and junk in it. A rolloff and a couple days of elbow grease cleaning it out would make it look a lot better.

I'm not familiar with how you clean up smoke damage, but it needed that throughout the home, and of course new carpeting, etc. It was fixable, or so I thought, especially if you had the know how to do it yourself. Windows were broken out by vandals and firemen, and the front and back doors had been kicked in repeatedly and needed repair.

Still, it was salvageable IMHO if the property could have been picked up for very cheap. My guess is the liens and back taxes made it not economically viable.

Picture shows fire damage in the kitchen.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:25:30 EDT

KrK posted :

said by John Galt:

We burn them down here...training for the FD.

The TFD already received training at this house.... twice.... it was just unscheduled training... :D
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:46:22 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted :

said by KrK:

Then there's the issue of having a public right of way in the middle of your yard. Bah.

Do a right-of-way 'swap' as a condition of purchase.
Get rid of the park access between the two properties and move it to the far side of the now vacant lot.
Then you should be able to do whatever is necessary to 'combine' the lots on title and for occupancy purposes.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:28:33 EDT

robbin posted : From reading the entire thread it appears to me that a reasonable price was never set. Either there was no motivation to sell or perhaps the estate was never properly settled and no one had authority. The city appears to have a policy of tearing down as many as they can. Google it. I sincerely doubt that someone like you or me ever really had the option.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:22:17 EDT

nunya posted : The market dictates value. If that home had any value, someone (like you or me) would have bought it and flipped it. That certainly wasn't just a "sugar coat" house.
I've turned a few turds into diamonds. From the description and looks of that place. The best you'd get from that turd would be coal.
--
...because I care.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:19:00 EDT

robbin posted : I have been involved in the construction industry since about 1980 and involved in investment since the mid 90's. I just have to disagree. That looked like a nice house. People around here rehab houses like that all the time. Tulsa has a thriving economy. Current unemployment below 5% (as opposed to a little over 6% a year ago). From all indications the housing market has been strong compared to much of the country and is continuing it's positive growth. Housing has value in Tulsa. From the description given, that house had value and many good years and family memories left.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:07:56 EDT

Speedy Petey posted :

said by AVD:

next time tell the contractor to spray water to contain the dust. Did they abate lead and asbestos first?

You must have missed this part:

"Built in the late 60's"

There is only about a 5% chance there was either in that home.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:53:18 EDT

nunya posted : Years of experience. I look at it strictly from a "for profit" point of view. Any investment in that property would have been money in the toilet.
Sometimes, as would be the case with this house, it most certainly is cheaper to start over.
Materials are only part of the equation. Labor is just as important, if not more. Then, it has to have some sort of "completion" value; the house has to magically be worth more than the materials and labor when finished. Much of that depends on the location of the property.

I'll put it like this. Years ago, the city of St. Louis tried selling properties for $1. Tax liens were forgiven. You did have to abide by some rules: having the necessary finances to fix the house, start and complete work within a given time frame, bring the property up to current code with proper permits and inspections.

There were few takers. People, in general, are stupid. But not many were that stupid. There were few takers. The city ended up taking a lot of the houses back because these re-habbers got in over their heads.
--
...because I care.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:50:32 EDT

UHF posted :

said by robbin:

said by nunya:

I highly doubt anyone would buy that property given the condition. At least with the house gone, the lot now has some value.

I'm curious what criteria you used to reach that conclusion. From the pics and description given, the house needed to have the interior stripped and redone. Obviously the shrubs needed to be trimmed. Gutting a house and doing new wiring, insulation, etc is obviously cheaper that starting from scratch. Lumber in the 60's was superior to what can be purchased today.

Exactly. A house about a block from me suffered a major fire. The house was considered a total loss by the insurance company, but was still standing. A local contractor purchased it for "scrap value" of $21,500, about $2000 above the assessed land value alone. He gutted it, including a complete tear off the roof including rafters, and rebuilt it into a nice house. All the plumbing, electrical, and mechanicals were replaced. He also added another garage stall as the original house only had one stall. He sold it for $162,500. I doubt he had $140,000 invested in the improvements.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:48:25 EDT

John Galt posted : How Portland, OR is dealing with it:

»www.oregonlive.com/front-porch/i···osu.html

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:32:18 EDT

robbin posted :

said by nunya:

I highly doubt anyone would buy that property given the condition. At least with the house gone, the lot now has some value.

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:15:50 EDT

robbin posted : I looked real closely at the pics and I can't see a sidewalk on either side. Where is it in the pics?

Re: Code enforcement demolishes House next door

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:04:01 EDT

nunya posted : I would imagine it's a relief to have it gone. St. Louis tries to do these too, but just doesn't have enough money to keep up.
There really isn't much of value to scavenge in these buildings. Maybe the accessible pipes and wire. After the track hoe gets starts in, you don't want to be anywhere around.

A situation like this in no way, shape, or form resembles the issues with illegal imminent domain seizures.
This property was quite obviously a burden on the surrounding community - a public nuisance.
I highly doubt anyone would buy that property given the condition. At least with the house gone, the lot now has some value.
--
...because I care.