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AVD
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Onion, NJ
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reply to Draiman

Re: Garage addition

I don't understand. Most jurisdictions require an engineer to seal all drawings.


natedj
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Columbia, SC
reply to Draiman
said by Draiman:

I'm waiting for a final draft of the drawings but the Structural Engineer turned the foundation into Fort Knox. The original footings were 36" x 12" and the new ones are 96" x 18". It was a single layer of rebar and now it's a double layer of rebar in each wall. This garage is being so over built it's nuts. After it's done the safest place in the house will be the garage. LOL

Wow, that is unreal, an 8' wide footing .... for a residence, a garage at that!
Either the soil you're bearing on is equivalent to landfill material or the engineer is a novice. As the ole saying goes, when in doubt be stout.
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guppy_fish
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reply to Draiman
From my reading its an 8 foot deep footing, 18" wide, that will get below the frost line just about anywhere

Engineered stamped plans is normal, I have always had to submit stamped plans, its to make sure someone whom is a certified professional engineer has reviewed the plans to meet building codes

Now your breaking ground, let the cost over runs begin!


Draiman
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Kill Devil Hills, NC
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reply to Draiman
Just got a call from the GC. The foundation was budgeted for $14,000 and the quote the GC got on the new foundation was $35,000. Needless to say he wasn't going to eat the difference and knew I wasn't so he questioned it. The structural engineer misunderstood the job. He thought we were pulling down the existing foundation when all we're doing is added to it. The difference is 27' wide vs. 11' wide. His foundation was slated to hold 27' worth of earth and all it needed to do is hold 11' of earth. The structural engineer is redoing it and will have new drawings stamped by Monday. Another week delay. The GC also said they are going to build the new foundation and fill it before they demo the existing garage just to be safe so it won't be demo'ed for 2-3 weeks. Though I'll lose use of the garage much sooner because they need to dig the footings in front of it since it's being enlarged from 20' to 28' deep. Lucky for me the city doesn't care about the foundation as long as it's stamped so we should be good to go once the engineer gets on the same page.


natedj
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Columbia, SC
reply to guppy_fish
I doubt the the footing is oriented that way, the elevation of the footing can raised or lowered to whatever depth required to be below the frost line. If the OP is referring to the stem wall that sits on top of the footing then I can buy that.
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AVD
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reply to guppy_fish
in this case the engineer had two sets of plans, the unstamped lite version and the stamped ones.

guppy_fish
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Lakeland, FL
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reply to Draiman
Like everything, you have to shop around and know the details of what your price includes!

Typically I've paid $2-300 for the stamp on house plans, but calling around got prices similar to what the OP got zing-botted


AVD
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but if an engineer presents the plans in the first place, they should not need modification to get stamped.


natedj
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Columbia, SC
said by AVD:

but if an engineer presents the plans in the first place, they should not need modification to get stamped.

+1
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guppy_fish
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reply to AVD
Its an option from my experience ( stamp ) and extra cost as it's never the engineer that makes the plans but a drafts person. A firm may only have one PE, but 10 people doing the plans


natedj
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Columbia, SC
This is true, but the draftsmen all work under the direction of the PE so the plans are P.E.'s design drawn by the draftsman. Typically, any drawings that leaves an engineers office that doesn't have a seal on them are either (a) preliminary or uncompleted drawings or (b) The client used the company as a drafting service and not for engineering services.
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AVD
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depends on the jurisdiction. I couldn't release a drawing or report in NJ without a seal. In NY I could, but once it had my name and number, it would (have to) be as good as sealed.
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The preceding posting is null and void in Arizona and any other jurisdiction where prohibited by law.

guppy_fish
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reply to natedj
said by natedj:

Typically, any drawings that leaves an engineers office that doesn't have a seal on them are either (a) preliminary or uncompleted drawings or (b) The client used the company as a drafting service and not for engineering services.

Which is exactly what the OP did, he had plans drawn up, not stamped. When he went back, they charged to make the drafting service plans official engineered plans

All services I checked out do this, its just a bit over the top what he paid for the stamp, but its very common for actual firms to do this, two tired pricing.

The OP could have take those drafted plans and found his own PE to stamp them, not uncommon at all.

This is just one of many joys of being your own GC


AVD
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AVD
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reply to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

said by natedj:

Typically, any drawings that leaves an engineers office that doesn't have a seal on them are either (a) preliminary or uncompleted drawings or (b) The client used the company as a drafting service and not for engineering services.

Which is exactly what the OP did, he had plans drawn up, not stamped. When he went back, they charged to make the drafting service plans official engineered plans

sometimes it costs more to fix a mistake.
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guppy_fish
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said by AVD:

sometimes it costs more to fix a mistake.

Oh I understand and completely agree ... like interior walls that zero width on the plans


natedj
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reply to guppy_fish
I'm a little confused now. Looking back on the PDF the OP posted, there are "A" sheets and "S" sheets signifying architectural and structural sheets, if there were already architectural drawings then why would anyone have structural drawings done and not have them sealed? I guess that the OP thought the city won't require a seal and he choose the cheaper way out, but shame on the engineer that charge that much to stamp a set of drawings that came out of his own office.
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Draiman
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Kill Devil Hills, NC
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reply to AVD
said by AVD:

I don't understand. Most jurisdictions require an engineer to seal all drawings.

Not required by state code here. A GC license allows them to accept liability on stuff up to a certain point so you don't need stamps. Our GC does this all the time in other cities. Our city trumps the state by requiring stamps. I could go to the state and fight it. I'd win but stuff would be delayed months or even years and I'm sure it would cost more then $1,500. The city building inspector said they require it, "For my protection".


AVD
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said by Draiman:

said by AVD:

I don't understand. Most jurisdictions require an engineer to seal all drawings.

Not required by state code here. A GC license allows them to accept liability on stuff up to a certain point so you don't need stamps. Our GC does this all the time in other cities. Our city trumps the state by requiring stamps. I could go to the state and fight it. I'd win but stuff would be delayed months or even years and I'm sure it would cost more then $1,500. The city building inspector said they require it, "For my protection".

I meant that "Most jurisdictions require an Engineer to seal all drawings that s/he produces"
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The preceding posting is null and void in Arizona and any other jurisdiction where prohibited by law.


natedj
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reply to Draiman
I just notice the ~16' retaining wall at the back, might be the reason for the 8' wide footing, but I still say its overkill. Can you post before pictures of he back of the existing garage.
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guppy_fish
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Lakeland, FL
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reply to Draiman

Re: Garage addition

That's some serious foundation work .... I would be amazed if your cost target is meet. Seem most of it is due to the elevation change and you have basically a huge retaining wall

I'll be watching your updates with interest!


Draiman
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reply to natedj
said by natedj:

I'm a little confused now. Looking back on the PDF the OP posted, there are "A" sheets and "S" sheets signifying architectural and structural sheets, if there were already architectural drawings then why would anyone have structural drawings done and not have them sealed? I guess that the OP thought the city won't require a seal and he choose the cheaper way out, but shame on the engineer that charge that much to stamp a set of drawings that came out of his own office.

OP doesn't handle that stuff. That's the GC's job.


Draiman
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Kill Devil Hills, NC
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reply to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

That's some serious foundation work .... I would be amazed if your cost target is meet. Seem most of it is due to the elevation change and you have basically a huge retaining wall

I'll be watching your updates with interest!

Cost target wouldn't have been meet with that foundation. The bugeted amount is $14,000 for the foundation (concrete/steel/excavation) but that super foundation came in at $35,000 so neither I or the GC were going to eat the extra $21,000. That prompted the GC to question it in great detail which lead to the realization that the engineer messed up. The engineer was assuming stuff that wasn't correct. Lucky for me the engineer made a mistake so the new foundation will come in on budget and we'll have a revised stamped drawing Monday.

guppy_fish
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said by Draiman:

That prompted the GC to question it in great detail which lead to the realization that the engineer messed up. The engineer was assuming stuff that wasn't correct. Lucky for me the engineer made a mistake so the new foundation will come in on budget and we'll have a revised stamped drawing Monday.

Something doesn't pass the sniff test when licensed PE are being corrected by a GC.

If the above is true, do you trust your revised plans won't have a foundation collapse due to shifting of the soil? What tests were done on the soil to warrant the first or second methods for the retaining wall?

While its tempting to want to start your project, you should be 100% certain that your foundation plans will stand the test of time, not meet an arbitrary need of a budget


Draiman
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Kill Devil Hills, NC
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said by guppy_fish:

said by Draiman:

That prompted the GC to question it in great detail which lead to the realization that the engineer messed up. The engineer was assuming stuff that wasn't correct. Lucky for me the engineer made a mistake so the new foundation will come in on budget and we'll have a revised stamped drawing Monday.

Something doesn't pass the sniff test when licensed PE are being corrected by a GC.

If the above is true, do you trust your revised plans won't have a foundation collapse due to shifting of the soil? What tests were done on the soil to warrant the first or second methods for the retaining wall?

While its tempting to want to start your project, you should be 100% certain that your foundation plans will stand the test of time, not meet an arbitrary need of a budget

I think you misunderstood something along the way. The engineer designed something that was never intended to be built. He designed a 27' x 28' foundation and was asked to design a 11' x 28' foundation. 16' of earth extra changes everything. 100% trust the revised plans will be fine.


builderbob

@cox.net
reply to Draiman
i didn't read all your posts but after looking at your PDF are engineer and designer same firm? if so, i would be having a serious conversion with pe asking what basis for the 35k foundation? bad soil, second floor+auto+etc load, retaining wall requirement. for what they charged to stamp and the PDF foundation error makes has me wondering if your plans are engineered correctly? is this their first rodeo?

would be interesting to see outside view of back and side yard looking away from garage.

welcome to my world.

guppy_fish
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reply to Draiman
said by Draiman:

He designed a 27' x 28' foundation and was asked to design a 11' x 28' foundation. 16' of earth extra changes everything. 100% trust the revised plans will be fine.

Don't you need a foundation for the full garage? 11'x28' might be a retaining wall, but you still would need footer for the remaining perimeter and 4' off vertical to be below the frost line?


Draiman
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Kill Devil Hills, NC
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3 edits
said by guppy_fish:

said by Draiman:

He designed a 27' x 28' foundation and was asked to design a 11' x 28' foundation. 16' of earth extra changes everything. 100% trust the revised plans will be fine.

Don't you need a foundation for the full garage? 11'x28' might be a retaining wall, but you still would need footer for the remaining perimeter and 4' off vertical to be below the frost line?

There is an existing foundation now. They are just extending it. The engineer assume we were going to remove the existing foundation and redo it from scratch when he was TOLD we were going to tie into the existing foundation and extend it. The engineer really messed up bad on this one. A fine example of poor communication. Basically what it amounts to is they're going back to the original design more or less with 36" x 12" footings. The piece of the puzzle I didn't mention yet is the original engineer who did the 36" x 12" footing had 2 deaths in his family. His mom and someone else so he delayed the project 3 weeks and was fired. The new engineer did his own thing without listening which increased the foundation 300% so now that he understands it's going back to what the original engineer designed. The only difference is that this new engineer likes to add overkill on drainage. Murphy loves me long time!

Edit: You can see in the picture the red part is the new foundation. The old foundation needs to be extended out a little in the front as well but it's not holding earth like the side wall. The new engineer designed the foundation to hold earth on 3 sides for a 27' x 28' for some reason. The drawing clearly show the old foundation staying and a new foundation being built so no idea why he assumed different and redesigned the foundation.


AVD
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