| reply to garys_2k
Re: Garage addition said by garys_2k:Ah, that does sound easy, good!
Yea it's not that hard just more time to do and $468.28 extra. I just want to get it done so it's useable. Everything else can be done a few years down the road. |
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| reply to Draiman
I took Friday and Monday off to work on the garage. Here's the progress. |
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| reply to Draiman
And here's how it looks now. Ready for baseboards, trim, paint, and carpet but finally useable! I'll be removing the temp treads on the stairs at the end of the month and installing red oak risers and treads. I'll re-install the handrail at the same time. |
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| reply to Draiman
The hallway is finished up on drywall. Next week the drywall in the garage will be done and that will be all the drywall work. Next week I'll be working on the stairs as well. |
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 John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | reply to Draiman
Why don't the things on the ceiling line up? |
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 Coma Thanks StevePremium
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand | said by John Galt:Why don't the things on the ceiling line up?
. . . with the window !
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| reply to John Galt
said by John Galt:Why don't the things on the ceiling line up?
Why would you want stuff to line up? That's OCD!
Seriously from what I can see they do line up but perspective is a $%#^ in pictures.
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"Trust Me I'm The Doctor!" -Doctor Who |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to John Galt
And why is the light in the staircase not centered? |
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John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | reply to Critsmcgee
Re: Garage addition said by Critsmcgee:Why would you want stuff to line up? That's OCD!
You always pull a string line when doing boxing or setting rough-in housings for ceiling fixtures in a row.
Carpenters really don't spend the time to make sure the collar ties are installed dead-nuts on. For most purposes they don't have to be. Most people measure from the framing, thinking that is sufficient. When the sheetrock is installed, even small errors off of the visual centerline are highly noticeable.
OCD and a stringline...a good thing in construction from, well, way back when. 
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Many believe, but few will question...I decline to be blind.
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| said by John Galt:said by Critsmcgee:Why would you want stuff to line up? That's OCD!
You always pull a string line when doing boxing or setting rough-in housings for ceiling fixtures in a row. Carpenters really don't spend the time to make sure the collar ties are installed dead-nuts on. For most purposes they don't have to be. Most people measure from the framing, thinking that is sufficient. When the sheetrock is installed, even small errors off of the visual centerline are highly noticeable. OCD and a stringline...a good thing in construction from, well, way back when. There are no collar ties. The ceiling is done with JOISTS. |
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John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | said by 28727686:There are no collar ties. The ceiling is done with JOISTS.
Hmm... |
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| said by John Galt:said by 28727686:There are no collar ties. The ceiling is done with JOISTS.
Hmm... There are collar ties but you don't install a CEILING to them. You install a ceiling to JOISTS. I think you got confused. See your own picture.
As for the stuff lining up move on to something else. I'm not going to touch that subject. There's no place for it here. |
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 KenPremium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN | In your bonus room over the garage the drywall on the ceiling is attached to the collar ties. |
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| said by Ken:In your bonus room over the garage the drywall on the ceiling is attached to the collar ties.
Gypsum is attached to rafter ties or ceiling joists not collar ties. A collar tie is typically 1" dimensional lumber on every other rafter while a ceiling joist or rafter tie is 2" dimensional lumber on every rafter. It's common mistake people make though. See John Galt's picture as it's correct.
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"Trust Me I'm The Doctor!" -Doctor Who |
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| Maybe it's a regional thing, but I would agree with John and Ken.
Ceiling and floor joists always have both ends sitting on a wall.
What is pictured above we always called a collar tie whether it was 1 or 2 inch and spaced wherever. |
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| said by seederjed:Maybe it's a regional thing, but I would agree with John and Ken.
Ceiling and floor joists always have both ends sitting on a wall.
What is pictured above we always called a collar tie whether it was 1 or 2 inch and spaced wherever.
Local building inspector's and builder's call that joists here. Not sure if that has to do with knee wall framing or it's a regional thing but that's how it works here. That's it for me. I don't want to muck up the thread anymore. Not really sure what this has to do with the thread and I hate derailing other people's threads.
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"Trust Me I'm The Doctor!" -Doctor Who |
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John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | The point is that it is necessary to check the framing in 'attic' buildouts prior to sheetrocking because the carpenters are not overly careful when they do that framing and when people do rough-in boxing, they usually measure rather than pull a string.
The problem is in this particular situation (attic buildouts) that the windows are typically on the ends, and that causes the light in the room to impinge the ceiling and walls at a shallow angle. Any deflections in the sheetrock will be far more noticeable, especially if 1/2" rather than 5/8" rock is used.
As to the electrical boxes, any time you have more than two in a row in proximity, ceiling, wall, whatever, you need to be careful as any misalignment is very noticeable. Finding this out after the rock is hung is a poor time and usually leads to re-work. It's easier to do it right the first time.
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Many believe, but few will question...I decline to be blind.
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KenPremium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN | reply to Critsmcgee
said by Critsmcgee:said by seederjed:Maybe it's a regional thing, but I would agree with John and Ken.
Ceiling and floor joists always have both ends sitting on a wall.
What is pictured above we always called a collar tie whether it was 1 or 2 inch and spaced wherever.
Local building inspector's and builder's call that joists here. Not sure if that has to do with knee wall framing or it's a regional thing but that's how it works here. That's it for me. I don't want to muck up the thread anymore. Not really sure what this has to do with the thread and I hate derailing other people's threads. Maybe it is just a regional difference but here if it's a collar tie and you screw drywall to it, it's still called a collar tie after. |
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2 recommendations | reply to John Galt
said by John Galt:The point is that it is necessary to check the framing in 'attic' buildouts prior to sheetrocking because the carpenters are not overly careful when they do that framing and when people do rough-in boxing, they usually measure rather than pull a string.
The problem is in this particular situation (attic buildouts) that the windows are typically on the ends, and that causes the light in the room to impinge the ceiling and walls at a shallow angle. Any deflections in the sheetrock will be far more noticeable, especially if 1/2" rather than 5/8" rock is used.
As to the electrical boxes, any time you have more than two in a row in proximity, ceiling, wall, whatever, you need to be careful as any misalignment is very noticeable. Finding this out after the rock is hung is a poor time and usually leads to re-work. It's easier to do it right the first time.
Quite honestly I don't care. The project's main goal was to expand the garage from a 1 car to a 2 car. The secondary goal was to mitigate as much of the cost as possible by adding living area down the road. Both goals will be accomplished. The wife wanted a garage parking spot and got one so she's happy. I got useable space to increase the property value and offset the cost of the project so I'm happy. I also got over a thousand dollars in tools by doing a lot of the work myself to save money so I got a bonus. If the stuff not lining up changed the appraisal price then I'd care but it doesn't nor will it matter to a prospect buyer if/when it comes to that. The "FROG" aka Finished Room Over Garage was setup to be called a 'media room'. Eventually I'll wire it for dolby surround. Our intended us for it is primarily storage so boxes, more boxes, and even more boxes! The secondary use for the room will be a small gym w/tv.
With that said I'll be doing the stairs and finishing the drywall next week. After that's done I'm going to clean the room out and move boxes up there as it's done for now. I'll work on the baseboard, trim, painting, flooring, etc. slowly over the next few years. I might get to stuff sooner it just depends on how I feel as I want a break from it for a while. |
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | reply to Critsmcgee
said by Critsmcgee:Local building inspector's and builder's call that joists here.
joists carry floor loads.
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* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.-- |
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1 edit
1 recommendation | said by AVD:said by Critsmcgee:Local building inspector's and builder's call that joists here.
joists carry floor loads. It seems as if there's multiple thoughts on the whole thing but a solid foundation to call them ceiling joists. Can you explain any of these images?
"In architecture and engineering, a joist is one of the horizontal supporting members that run from wall to wall, wall to beam, or beam to beam to support a ceiling, roof, or floor."
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joist
Edit: Thanks for all the approvals!
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | I was always under the impression that a joist was supported by beams, walls etc under it. Collar ties are only supported by the rafters. |
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KenPremium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN | reply to Critsmcgee
Every one of those pictures calls the collar tie a collar tie. If you screwed drywall to that collar tie, you suddenly want to call it a ceiling joist? Maybe you could because it is supporting the ceiling, but it would still be a collar tie because it is performing the structural work for the rafters of a collar tie. It's primary reason for being there is as a collar tie, and it's secondary purpose is as a ceiling joist. You can call it a ceiling joist, as long as you recognize it is definitely also a collar tie. |
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3 edits | "Removed post as it was an off topic pointless discussion." |
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1 edit | reply to Draiman
Here's how the stairs came out. I still need to finish up the handrail then poly everything. I'm looking at using Bona FloorPoly 350 for the finish. I also finished all the insulation work. The drywall will be done this week as well. |
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KenPremium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN | reply to Critsmcgee
said by Critsmcgee:said by Ken:Every one of those pictures calls the collar tie a collar tie. If you screwed drywall to that collar tie, you suddenly want to call it a ceiling joist? Maybe you could because it is supporting the ceiling, but it would still be a collar tie because it is performing the structural work for the rafters of a collar tie. It's primary reason for being there is as a collar tie, and it's secondary purpose is as a ceiling joist. You can call it a ceiling joist, as long as you recognize it is definitely also a collar tie.
The professionals in my area don't subscribe to that 'theory' so neither do I. The best we can do is agree to disagree because this isn't going anywhere because those multiple professionals aren't here for you to change their minds and by proxy my mind won't change because theirs doesn't. The only theory I was putting forth was that maybe a collar tie could also be called a ceiling joist because it is also holding up the ceiling. If you don't subscribe to that theory, then you agree with me that it's not both a ceiling joist and collar tie but instead is only a collar tie? |
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2 edits | reply to Ken
Re: Garage addition "Removed post as it was an off topic pointless discussion." |
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KenPremium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN | So just to be clear in each of the pictures you posted it shows a collar tie. But the moment someone screws drywall to that collar tie it is then known as a ceiling joist and is not a collar tie? |
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