guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 | reply to Draiman
Re: Garage addition That's some serious foundation work .... I would be amazed if your cost target is meet. Seem most of it is due to the elevation change and you have basically a huge retaining wall
I'll be watching your updates with interest! |
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 DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to natedj
said by natedj:I'm a little confused now. Looking back on the PDF the OP posted, there are "A" sheets and "S" sheets signifying architectural and structural sheets, if there were already architectural drawings then why would anyone have structural drawings done and not have them sealed? I guess that the OP thought the city won't require a seal and he choose the cheaper way out, but shame on the engineer that charge that much to stamp a set of drawings that came out of his own office.
OP doesn't handle that stuff. That's the GC's job. |
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DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC Reviews:
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| reply to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:That's some serious foundation work .... I would be amazed if your cost target is meet. Seem most of it is due to the elevation change and you have basically a huge retaining wall
I'll be watching your updates with interest!
Cost target wouldn't have been meet with that foundation. The bugeted amount is $14,000 for the foundation (concrete/steel/excavation) but that super foundation came in at $35,000 so neither I or the GC were going to eat the extra $21,000. That prompted the GC to question it in great detail which lead to the realization that the engineer messed up. The engineer was assuming stuff that wasn't correct. Lucky for me the engineer made a mistake so the new foundation will come in on budget and we'll have a revised stamped drawing Monday. |
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guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
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| said by Draiman:That prompted the GC to question it in great detail which lead to the realization that the engineer messed up. The engineer was assuming stuff that wasn't correct. Lucky for me the engineer made a mistake so the new foundation will come in on budget and we'll have a revised stamped drawing Monday.
Something doesn't pass the sniff test when licensed PE are being corrected by a GC.
If the above is true, do you trust your revised plans won't have a foundation collapse due to shifting of the soil? What tests were done on the soil to warrant the first or second methods for the retaining wall?
While its tempting to want to start your project, you should be 100% certain that your foundation plans will stand the test of time, not meet an arbitrary need of a budget |
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DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC Reviews:
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| said by guppy_fish:said by Draiman:That prompted the GC to question it in great detail which lead to the realization that the engineer messed up. The engineer was assuming stuff that wasn't correct. Lucky for me the engineer made a mistake so the new foundation will come in on budget and we'll have a revised stamped drawing Monday.
Something doesn't pass the sniff test when licensed PE are being corrected by a GC. If the above is true, do you trust your revised plans won't have a foundation collapse due to shifting of the soil? What tests were done on the soil to warrant the first or second methods for the retaining wall? While its tempting to want to start your project, you should be 100% certain that your foundation plans will stand the test of time, not meet an arbitrary need of a budget I think you misunderstood something along the way. The engineer designed something that was never intended to be built. He designed a 27' x 28' foundation and was asked to design a 11' x 28' foundation. 16' of earth extra changes everything. 100% trust the revised plans will be fine. |
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| reply to Draiman
i didn't read all your posts but after looking at your PDF are engineer and designer same firm? if so, i would be having a serious conversion with pe asking what basis for the 35k foundation? bad soil, second floor+auto+etc load, retaining wall requirement. for what they charged to stamp and the PDF foundation error makes has me wondering if your plans are engineered correctly? is this their first rodeo?
would be interesting to see outside view of back and side yard looking away from garage.
welcome to my world. |
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guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
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| reply to Draiman
said by Draiman: He designed a 27' x 28' foundation and was asked to design a 11' x 28' foundation. 16' of earth extra changes everything. 100% trust the revised plans will be fine.
Don't you need a foundation for the full garage? 11'x28' might be a retaining wall, but you still would need footer for the remaining perimeter and 4' off vertical to be below the frost line? |
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DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
3 edits | said by guppy_fish:said by Draiman: He designed a 27' x 28' foundation and was asked to design a 11' x 28' foundation. 16' of earth extra changes everything. 100% trust the revised plans will be fine.
Don't you need a foundation for the full garage? 11'x28' might be a retaining wall, but you still would need footer for the remaining perimeter and 4' off vertical to be below the frost line? There is an existing foundation now. They are just extending it. The engineer assume we were going to remove the existing foundation and redo it from scratch when he was TOLD we were going to tie into the existing foundation and extend it. The engineer really messed up bad on this one. A fine example of poor communication. Basically what it amounts to is they're going back to the original design more or less with 36" x 12" footings. The piece of the puzzle I didn't mention yet is the original engineer who did the 36" x 12" footing had 2 deaths in his family. His mom and someone else so he delayed the project 3 weeks and was fired. The new engineer did his own thing without listening which increased the foundation 300% so now that he understands it's going back to what the original engineer designed. The only difference is that this new engineer likes to add overkill on drainage. Murphy loves me long time!
Edit: You can see in the picture the red part is the new foundation. The old foundation needs to be extended out a little in the front as well but it's not holding earth like the side wall. The new engineer designed the foundation to hold earth on 3 sides for a 27' x 28' for some reason. The drawing clearly show the old foundation staying and a new foundation being built so no idea why he assumed different and redesigned the foundation. |
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
1 edit | n/m |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | I'm sorry Draiman  : I shouldn't be teasing at your or your project team's expense. It looks like you all have all the bases covered. Good luck with the project and please post lots of photos.
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--
The preceding posting is null and void in Arizona and any other jurisdiction where prohibited by law. |
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guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Draiman
So your new garage addition will have 2/3'rds of the floor from the existing structure?. That would seem to be challenging as you will have to excavate the current end of the garage for the new 11x27 stuff while making sure nothing comes loose under the current slab.
Please post pictures as they do this, will be very interesting to watch and learn! |
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DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
4 edits | said by guppy_fish:So your new garage addition will have 2/3'rds of the floor from the existing structure?. That would seem to be challenging as you will have to excavate the current end of the garage for the new 11x27 stuff while making sure nothing comes loose under the current slab.
Please post pictures as they do this, will be very interesting to watch and learn!
The slab will be new for the whole thing. The existing foundation walls will remain the same. They will re-compact the old foundation and level it if required so that there is a 2 1/2" slope to the entire garage floor. The idea is to reuse as much as possible but have it look and function like a new garage. No one should know it's 2 parts after I put a layer of concrete on back where the 2 foundations meet then paint it. 
The plan is to build the new foundation on the side of the existing garage. Fill, compact it, and get it ready for a slab. At the same time do the front foundation wall and small wall on the left side. Once all the new foundation is ready for a slab to be poured they will demo the existing garage and old slab. They will prep that and get it ready for a new slab. Then they will pour a single 4" thick slab with a 2 1/2" slope which will complete the foundation work. They want to leave the demo to the end just to be safe that when they demo stuff the old foundation wall isn't damage at all. If it's packed by the new foundation then it can't be damaged. That's their plan anyways.
Hard to explain what the draws are doing and the plan in words. I hope that helps a little. |
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guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
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| I understand now, so its an unknown if this will work, as when it is attempted to peel the old slab from the current foundation, one is betting it doesn't damage the current foundation. ( or find hidden damage )
I get what your trying to do now ... its seems to have risks, hopefully it will work out. What is your contingency if they pull the slab and the current foundation can't be reused? |
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DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
2 edits | They know it will work. Everyone is just overly cautious these days. Unless they find a landfill, toxin material, dead bodies, or something else there will be no issues. It's just dirt under there. That's like me just having the slab removed and re-poured. I can do that tomorrow without any problems to the foundation. The walls are the only variable but have survived over 50 years so far. They just want to pack them in first to be safe. The only risk right now is they might have to redo the existing foundation wall on the front left corner of the garage since there's a small crack there. We're talking about a 2' section of wall and the GC estimates like $750 if the building inspector makes them replace it.
The foundation wall extends up 12" above the ground. They have to remove that from the old foundation in order to pour the slab. In that process they have to cut concrete, rebar, and who knows what else. They just want to stack the deck in their favor by packing the new foundation there first so that they don't need to worry at all. If they did that work first on the exposed wall should anything happen with the vibrations it might cause damage they need to repair before the new foundation could be built. By removing that last there's zero chance of that happening.
Edit: You can see how the foundation wall comes up 12". That gutter and all that siding is being removed. The new garage will extend out 8' from that wall. That small crack may or may not be an issue when they tie the new foundation into the old foundation. On the other picture from that sidewalk out 11' is the new foundation. That foundation wall you see there is going to remain minus the 12" part that extends above the ground. |
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guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Keep this in the back of your head ....
Contractors can underbid on a job knowing the odds are in there favor that a change will be required which is not in the contract. Once your locked into a project, you lose all ability to negotiate, so what maybe a 750 dollar change, becomes 5,000 and there is nothing one can do about it.
This is why company's bid to be the lowest bid, they know there will be changes and make up for the initial low price which would be a loss on all subsequent changes.
I personally think your headed into some serious issues, it is not common to try and reuse a 50 year old foundation, for if no other reason it was built to a different code, if any code at all. You already have visible cracks and trying to "tie in" the old worth new is problematic at best.
I'm not new to this, I've build my own homes as a GC, rehabbed dozens of homes with full-time contractor hired by my business so this is just nothing more than a heads up, and I'm fully aware I don't know everything, as if I did, I would never again want to be the one making the decisions, finding the contractors and when wrong it all fall quickly out of hand budget wise.
The engineer designed a new foundation system for a reason, its the way its done. They will be happy to draw up plans for anything you want, but if it needs changes, all delays, changes, unexpected problems fall in your lap. In the end, the best plan isn't necessarily the lowest cost one, its the one with the high chance of exceeding without issues and unexpected costs |
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DraimanLet me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Draiman
Thanks for the heads up but I'm happy with the direction and choices being made. In the end stuff is being done the best it can be and there is no compromise. The GC knows I have a lawyer on retainer whom I'd be happy to get involved if he tries anything. The GC is also planning this to be a 'Model' for other customers to see. We've agreed to show it off for a few months after it's done. He plans to take pictures of the garage at various stages and would like a testimonial for marketing materials with my permission of course when it's all done. In the end this GC was the most expensive out of 8 bids. We picked him for a reason and went with the highest quote for a reason. |
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| established (and responsible) contractors usually don't need to do 'Model(s)'. have you checked references, contractors liabililty/workmens comp? as i said earlier, i didn't read all the posts but after looking at your plans, 36K doesn't seem realistic for what's involved. what is agreed payout schedule? |
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Reviews:
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4 edits | said by builderbob :established (and responsible) contractors usually don't need to do 'Model(s)'. have you checked references, contractors liabililty/workmens comp? as i said earlier, i didn't read all the posts but after looking at your plans, 36K doesn't seem realistic for what's involved. what is agreed payout schedule?
Pepsi, Ford, Hilton, etc. don't need to advertise either but they do. They pump tons into advertising for a reason. I'd never jump on a high horse and say anything like an "established/responsible anyone doesn't need to advertise'. That's hogwash. The OP said 59k also. No idea where you got that $36k from but guessing by your statement that you didn't read most of the posts that explains that.
Way to many people want to add way to much to something they clearly shouldn't as of late. I highly doubt anyone here has the expertise and knowledge to comment on this project. I mean all we have is some plans and a few pictures that don't show anything really. No way to draw a conclusion about the status of the foundation based on those pictures seriously. Let the OP do his thing, just sit back and watch. Offer advise when asked. I'm sure if they wanted advise on the project as a whole they would have asked for it but they haven't. They did sign with a contractor and completely designed it before even posting here so that says a lot right there. |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | a lot of us here have a lot of experience |
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