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RickStep
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Hamilton, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Guspaz

Re: Treadmill start = modem crash (interference)

said by Guspaz:

He might need an electrician to fix his wiring, but a UPS is something that everyone always needs

You can never have enough UPSes :P

I agree with Guspaz on two accounts:

1. Adding an UPS to correct an electrical problem is foolish and dangerous.
2. Using an UPS (even the cheap ones at Costco) works way better than a surge protector.

There are 5 UPS devices here. The worst of the problems that we are having are at the beginning of the day and at the end of the day when the switch gear either at Horizon Utilities (formally Hamilton Hydro) or Hydro One (the distribution arm of Ontario Hydro when it was split into 3 entities) adjust the taps on the transformers to keep the electrical system at relatively constant voltages.

Over night the electrical system is at its lowest use. While transformers can provide some regulation, less current (less consumed power) will allow the voltage to creep higher. Hydro One and the largest local utilities adjust the taps on the distribution transformers to keep the voltages within the utilities specifications. As humans wake up in the morning, lights are turned on breakfast is cooked, hotels become alive, etc. the voltage will begin to drop. Since there is no physical way to regulate the voltage, the electricity suppliers use transformers that have a series of connections (taps) that allow the output voltage to be adjusted as the load varies. The voltage will continuously be adjusted up throughout the day until offices close, supper is finished and the country goes to bed when the taps are selected to lower the voltage and the cycle starts again the next day.

Our worst problems here occur when the switch gear used to change the taps is either (sticky) slow or has dirty contacts. The result is that the voltage avalanches for several milliseconds before the switch makes a solid connection to the specific tap in the distribution system.

The backup UPS shown for convenience only here:

»canadacomputers.com/search_resul···&sort=3a

Are APC devices. Those from $229.99 and lower should work for any household.

Sizing is a real issue and is discussed here:

»www.apcmedia.com/salestools/SADE···1_EN.pdf

There are several companies that manufacture UPS devices. Using APC information is NOT an endorsement. Costco in Canada sells APC UPS devices cheaper than an equivalent model at a computer store.

Electrical Supply

Again I suggest that you look through the post from 2011 here:

»Fibe 16 with Sagemcom - DSL disconnects with coffee maker!

The link above covers many issues including letting your electricity supplier eliminate problems on their side of the system at their expense.

Replacing outlets and either eliminating extension cords or replacing cords is a good start.

While none of us want to spend money that we dont need to spend; there are those that will complain vociferously about an issue when the outlet that the device is plugged into is so loose that if you sneezed the cable would fall out of the wall and the fix is about $2.00 and we are here chasing phantoms.

Trying to correct intermittent problems is always a pain. Replacing the outlet or buying a new extension cord for less than $20.00, even if the problem is not resolved is a really great investment. Several issues have been eliminated.

Rick

westom

join:2009-03-15
kudos:1
said by RickStep:

2. Using an UPS (even the cheap ones at Costco) works way better than a surge protector.

One device is way better because it does something completely different? A typical UPS does not do surge protection. Read its spec numbers. Numbers for surge protection are typically smaller than numbers found on a $7 Wal-Mart protector. Near zero surge protection that is also hyped subjectively in advertising is 100% protection?

Near zero protection by a UPS is somehow better?

UPS has one function. To provide temporary power during a blackout. Power often so 'dirty' as to be potentially harmful to small motors and power strip protectors. 'Dirtiest' power that is also ideal for electronics. So that electronics will continue working during a blackout.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
It's true that a UPS tends to have less surge protection capacity (my Back-UPS Pro 1500 has a capacity of 342 joules, my old 1500 was 420 while my 360 electrical power bar is 4320), but a UPS will come with an insurance policy to replace surge-damaged equipment connected to the UPS. Although, some surge protectors (like some of 360 electrical's) also have similar insurance warranty things. Note that using a non-apc powerbar connected to the UPS will void the insurance policy.

If this is a concern, I believe putting a dedicated surge protector between the wall and the UPS might work without voiding the insurance. But really, surges are not the problem in the case at hand, he's getting voltage dips...
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

RickStep
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Hamilton, ON
kudos:1
reply to RickStep
Ive listed below 3 publications from American Power Conversion. The publications cover much of what has been discussed here.

White Paper 1 - UPS types are defined, practical applications of each are discussed, and advantages and disadvantages are listed. This publication at revision 7 probably says a lot about the changes in UPS designs over the years.

»www.apcmedia.com/salestools/arch···7_EN.pdf

White Paper 15 - This white paper helps explain the differences between watts and VA and explains how the terms are correctly and incorrectly used in specifying power protection equipment.

»www.apcmedia.com/salestools/SADE···1_EN.pdf

White Paper 18 - Describes the most common types of power disturbances and what can cause them.

»www.apcmedia.com/salestools/VAVR···1_EN.pdf

The complete white paper list is here. Most other white papers have to do with large systems in data centres.

»www.apcmedia.com/salestools/WTOL···0_EN.pdf

Rick

westom

join:2009-03-15
kudos:1
said by RickStep:

Ive listed below 3 publications from American Power Conversion. The publications cover much of what has been discussed here.

Notice numbers in some APC salestools. How many volts did 1970 electronics withstand without damage. 120 volt electronics could withstand 600 volts. Today's electronics are even more robust. Why does a 120 volt UPS even output 270 volt spikes. Because electronics even in the APC citation says 600 volts without damage.

AC mains does not routinely spikes 270 volts on 120 volt mains. But a typical UPS output is 'dirtier when it switches from 'clean' AC mains to 'dirtiest' battery power. A typical UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. Ideal power for electronics that already do superior filtering and 'cleaning'. That even withstand 600 volt spikes.