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avenison

join:2009-12-10
90121
reply to JustinEss

Re: Sudbury ON - FibreOP FTTH - job fair Thursday 6pm

Thanks, good to know. Though I might not call it indefinite - with a hurricane, you have early warning the power may be out, but in the case of accidental outages like in 2003, the possibility of exhausting the fossil fuel supply is probably a lot more likely.

A friend of mine over in new sudbury has placed their order, so I'll be taking a look at the FibreOP terms of service shortly. Hopefully they are less contradictory than the ones on Bell Aliant's web site... But that's a whole other post.


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to avenison

And of course once they have the city covered, they'll start cutting the F1 cables coming out of the COs and deny competitors access to copper facilities or wholesale DSL (because it won't exist anymore).
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net



avenison

join:2009-12-10
90121

It's certainly possible, but that kind of behaviour might backfire and motivate CRTC rulings on sharing non-copper infrastructure. As such I think it's unlikely they'll dismantle the only (and slower) network the prior competition can access.


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

They won't be able to gain the efficiencies of an optical plant without eliminating the maintenance costs of the copper plant.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net



nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to HeadSpinning

said by HeadSpinning:

And of course once they have the city covered, they'll start cutting the F1 cables coming out of the COs and deny competitors access to copper facilities or wholesale DSL (because it won't exist anymore).

That may be a ways off....because they'll never have 100% coverage in the city....never....unless they're going to run 5km of optical fibre down to my parents place....the cost of the copper back in the early 80s was $2k to have phone service installed.....I could only imagine the cost of fibre to run down their way....

So you won't see them cutting those cables anytime soon as you'll never have 100% coverage, meaning unless they come up with some other way you'll have maintenance on both plants....

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

said by nitzguy:

That may be a ways off....because they'll never have 100% coverage in the city....never....unless they're going to run 5km of optical fibre down to my parents place....the cost of the copper back in the early 80s was $2k to have phone service installed.....I could only imagine the cost of fibre to run down their way....

So you won't see them cutting those cables anytime soon as you'll never have 100% coverage, meaning unless they come up with some other way you'll have maintenance on both plants....

They only have to eliminate the F1 cable segment, and do FTTN with derived voice for everyone else.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


avenison

join:2009-12-10
90121
reply to HeadSpinning

Agreed, but why risk losing the revenue of POTS users (who might choose cable or other non-Bell alternatives) when they can just continue to profit from ALL of them?


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

They can still provide phone service only on FTTH. This is the strategy of several RBOCs in the US - discontinue the copper network to gain operating efficiencies and also lock out competition from using their network.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to avenison

I'm seen a few wholesales already using Bell FTTH for phone service... so competition is there.


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

said by kovy:

I'm seen a few wholesales already using Bell FTTH for phone service... so competition is there.

Yes, but they're only doing it OTT on Bell Internet service, just like Youtube, Skype and Netflix are all OTT. Bell does not provide the actual FTTH access service on a wholesale basis.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to HeadSpinning

said by HeadSpinning:

said by nitzguy:

That may be a ways off....because they'll never have 100% coverage in the city....never....unless they're going to run 5km of optical fibre down to my parents place....the cost of the copper back in the early 80s was $2k to have phone service installed.....I could only imagine the cost of fibre to run down their way....

So you won't see them cutting those cables anytime soon as you'll never have 100% coverage, meaning unless they come up with some other way you'll have maintenance on both plants....

They only have to eliminate the F1 cable segment, and do FTTN with derived voice for everyone else.

...Ok, I'm trying to understand here...I can basically give you an idea of how things run now.

------ (Fibre in I'm assuming) ---- Remote ---------- (over Copper now) ---- Parents place.

are you saying that isn't FTTN as it sits now? They have full ADSL1 service and syncing @ 6mbps on a nearly 5km long loop...

Are you saying that they would adjust this somehow? Just curious I'm trying to understand but am not really familiar with phone terminology as much as cable terminology...I don't understand this F1 segment you speak of...


avenison

join:2009-12-10
90121

@nitzguy: »www.privateline.com/OSP/No.html
I don't know where I found this link so I can't credit whomever posted it, but this should clarify the terminology for you.

I'll leave your other question for someone else to answer as I'm not certain remotes are even in use here.


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to nitzguy

The F1 is the feeder cable coming from the Central Office (CO) to a junction point known as an OPI or JWI. From the OPI or JWI there is then a series of cables going out to the neighborhoods - the F2 cable. The F2 feeds the aerial terminals or pedestals, which then have drops going to the house.

Every facility feeding a customer is currently made up of an F1, F2 and drop cable.

In FTTN, the F1 cable is used to feed the voice from the CO to the OPI or JWI located DSLAM (i.e. the fibre fed node in the field). The DSL is then added at that point.

The only thing the F1 is used for in FTTN is to feed dialtone - the DSL is added at the F2 point. If Bell switches to an IMS architecture with derived voice (i.e. VoIP) generated by an adapter at the home, similar to a cable EMTA, they no longer need the F1 to feed dialtone to the OPI/JWI.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


BJ0

join:2012-07-03
reply to avenison

Did anyone go to the fibreop event at Market Square? I couldn't go by when they mentioned it on the radio this morning, so I went by just now and it appears they're done (The modems, TVs, Xbox, ect were laying on the side of the building).

Even though I missed it, I'm optimistic that I'll be able to get the service, just being a little over a KM down the road.



avenison

join:2009-12-10
90121

What's a radio?

By which I mean, it sounds like you have some idea what the event was about, so would you mind explaining that to the rest of us?


BJ0

join:2012-07-03

It's that thing in my car that I turn on when I'm too lazy to hook up my phone and find a song...

I don't know a whole lot about it, though this morning I heard something on 93.5 about Bell doing something at Market Square. From what I can remember (I was more attentive to my driving at the time), they were demoing FibreOP TV and Internet, briefly mentioning the 200 megabit speeds. They were also giving away a TV, though that's all I remember.



avenison

join:2009-12-10
90121

I see, too bad I missed it, they might have been able to tell us where they're laying pipe next (though they probably were under instructions not to, since then someone would be "last"...

JohnB hasn't popped in for a while, I hope he didn't get himself in trouble by posting.


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to HeadSpinning

said by HeadSpinning:

said by kovy:

I'm seen a few wholesales already using Bell FTTH for phone service... so competition is there.

Yes, but they're only doing it OTT on Bell Internet service, just like Youtube, Skype and Netflix are all OTT. Bell does not provide the actual FTTH access service on a wholesale basis.

What's OTT?

Because these wholesales business clients had phone and internet.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

OTT = Over The Top

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-top_content
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


dan991199

join:2007-10-01
St Catharines, ON

Niagara needs this


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to HeadSpinning

How is it over the top when they have actual service with FTTH ?


avenison

join:2009-12-10
90121

1 edit

@kovy: I believe the distinction HeadSpinning is making is that if you use voip.ms, hulu, or in this case resale/wholesale providers, that traffic is routed over the public Internet. Conversely if your telephony/tv/etc. service is with the company providing the medium (Bell/Rogers/Cogeco and so on) then it is usually not routed over the Internet (which may offer certain advantages in terms of privacy and ease of bandwidth prioritization). That being said I do not know anything about the providers you are referring to. Care to name them?


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8

said by avenison:

@kovy: I believe the difference HeadSpinning is pointing out is that if you use voip.ms, hulu, or in this case resale/wholesale providers, that traffic is routed over the public Internet. Conversely if your telephony/tv/etc. service is with the company providing the medium (Bell/Rogers/Cogeco and so on) then it is usually not routed over the Internet (which may offer certain advantages in terms of privacy and ease of bandwidth prioritization). That being said I do not know anything about the providers you are referring to. Care to name them?

The service is exactly like the Bell FTTH service, a ONT with POTS.

I believe it was oricom.


avenison

join:2009-12-10
90121

They do have one fibre package listed (@oricom.ca), but it's a 5/5Mbit 500GB/mo business package... for $595 per month.


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to avenison

Then Bell must be selling POTS on GPON through wholesale channels. That's interesting. Maybe they don't see POTS wholesale as a big deal compared wholesale data access over GPON.

So far, Bell has been pretty steadfastly against FTTH/FTTP wholesale for data access unless you're buying Ethernet access services.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8

said by HeadSpinning:

Then Bell must be selling POTS on GPON through wholesale channels. That's interesting. Maybe they don't see POTS wholesale as a big deal compared wholesale data access over GPON.

So far, Bell has been pretty steadfastly against FTTH/FTTP wholesale for data access unless you're buying Ethernet access services.

Some clients also had Internet involve as well... But I never got to troubleshoot one.


JohnB

@personainc.net
reply to avenison

Hello Everyone,

The network build is finally moving ahead again in New Sudbury. We had some issues with Sudbury hydro and the poles, minor set back. Sudbury Hydro is not an easy group to deal with, and they are the reason that the south end will be last in the city to be covered.

Grandview and the surrounding area is being done this week, and that entire section of New Sudbury should be finished very shortly. After that, it is that Hawthorne street area. The Valley is still being worked on, but is nearing completion. Our goal of New Sudbury and the Valley being covered in July will likely be missed by a couple weeks due to external factors.

If any one has questions relating to the build, I will try my best to answer them!


Riplin

join:2002-05-13
canada

What was the issue with hydro? They strung fibre many years ago under other sub company name/names but never branched out into neighborhoods preferring only to service "business needs". Bet they're pissed that some competition is here actually doing the work they should have done many years ago



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

said by Riplin:

What was the issue with hydro? They strung fibre many years ago under other sub company name/names but never branched out into neighborhoods preferring only to service "business needs". Bet they're pissed that some competition is here actually doing the work they should have done many years ago

Probably with rent costs for the poles...
--
GO BLUE JAYS!


Riplin

join:2002-05-13
canada

Probably rent yes. Funny thing is where did hydro get the money to put the poles up in the first place? We paid for the poles, we paid for the labor. When you think about it you gotta wonder why they're even allowed to charge any rent at all.