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Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1
reply to quatra

Re: Best grapic card for World of Warcraft

said by quatra:

Unless the worse video card is so bad as to be unplayable I would say zero difference. The speed of the hard drive is the primary factor. I have mine loaded on a 500+M/sec SSD and the load times are so fast - you still see the load screen but not for long. I would consider going for 1gig+ SSD raid if I were designing a new wow rig.

That may actually be a possibility for mere mortals with the rate SSD prices are dropping.


Scilicet
Spaced Out
Premium
join:2005-04-11
Aurora, CO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage
reply to arson_fire

I went on the cheap with a NVIDIA GeForce GTS 450 that goes for about $100. For the most part it works just fine except when it first starts up with a new realm. It has a tendency to freeze up for a few seconds, on and off, for the first few minutes. After that it works without problems. Maybe I should have gone with the 550 or 600 series.



Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1

Sounds like the card doesn't have much memory or is using system memory to load the graphics.

If you have a 64-bit system try using the 64-bit client. That may help performance some.



Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to Scilicet

said by Scilicet:

I went on the cheap with a NVIDIA GeForce GTS 450 that goes for about $100. For the most part it works just fine except when it first starts up with a new realm. It has a tendency to freeze up for a few seconds, on and off, for the first few minutes. After that it works without problems. Maybe I should have gone with the 550 or 600 series.

No. That is hard drive and RAM causing the issue.

Wow requires more CPU/HD then video.

Get yourself a SSD and you'll see the biggest performance gain then any other single "upgrade". (Assuming you aren't using something 12+ years old).

Water, players, everything load instantly with an SSD.

BTW, this comparison is coming from a raptor drive. Meaning, it's one of the faster spinning HD's and the SSD still blows it out of the water.

All computers will be running SSD's in a few years. They're just still fairly expensive per GB.


Scilicet
Spaced Out
Premium
join:2005-04-11
Aurora, CO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage

1 edit

Hmmm... Interesting. Do you mean something like this: »www.microcenter.com/single_produ···=0382699

I have a fairly new system that I built myself with a MSI 785GM-P45 MB running an AMD Phenom II X6 1045T, 8GB ram, and no shortage of SATA I/O. A Seagate 7200 rpm HD runs the main show. This thing is faster than most.

Thanks for the info. I will be looking into this. I appreciate it.

Edit: As an afterthought. Isn't the video just a matter of DMA to the video graphics card?



Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1

said by Scilicet:

Hmmm... Interesting. Do you mean something like this: »www.microcenter.com/single_produ···=0382699

I have a fairly new system that I built myself with a MSI 785GM-P45 MB running an AMD Phenom II X6 1045T, 8GB ram, and no shortage of SATA I/O. A Seagate 7200 rpm HD runs the main show. This thing is faster than most.

Thanks for the info. I will be looking into this. I appreciate it.

Edit: As an afterthought. Isn't the video just a matter of DMA to the video graphics card?

It isn't hard drive (or SSD) speed that would matter in my opinion. Low end graphics cards do not have much video memory which is used to store graphics data. Some low end cards will use system memory instead. Even with an SSD you would have pauses while the card stores the graphic data.


Scilicet
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join:2005-04-11
Aurora, CO
kudos:1

Do you think so? Even the low end GTS 450 has 1GB of memory. Do you think that this isn't enough for WoW?

Expand your moderator at work


Scilicet
Spaced Out
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join:2005-04-11
Aurora, CO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage
reply to Goldheart

Re: Best grapic card for World of Warcraft

You may be right about that. 1gb isn't all that much. I am sure it's a FIFO deal to keep the video memory updated. I do notice that the data rate of the SSD is twice that of a standard HD. 6gb/s vs. 3gb/s respectively. Even with a large processor cache you are still dependent on the bus rate from the DMA.



Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to Scilicet

said by Scilicet:

Hmmm... Interesting. Do you mean something like this: »www.microcenter.com/single_produ···=0382699

Yes. However, being that SSD's are still fairly new, there are good ones and there are bad ones. Following reviews are usually your best bet. Also... Newegg.

said by Scilicet:

A Seagate 7200 rpm HD runs the main

Bottleneck Found.

Question.

Who makes your 450 GTS? (Don't say nVidia)

I ran WoW on an 8800 GTS for years with no problems, and I'm currently running a 460 GTX (Gigabyte).

The 8800 GTS is worse then the 450 GTS, but it was made by EVGA.

Essentially, what I'm trying to say is not all 450 GTS's will be the same. In fact, they can differ wildely, but I would still be surprised if it performed worse than an old 8800 GTS.

Let me see on Tom's Hardware.


Scilicet
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Aurora, CO
kudos:1

My 450 is made by ZOTAC.



Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1
reply to Scilicet

said by Scilicet:

You may be right about that. 1gb isn't all that much. I am sure it's a FIFO deal to keep the video memory updated. I do notice that the data rate of the SSD is twice that of a standard HD. 6gb/s vs. 3gb/s respectively. Even with a large processor cache you are still dependent on the bus rate from the DMA.

6G vs. 3G is bandwidth and would only really matter for raid arrays as no single drive actually moves data that fast - even SSDs.

If you have 1GB of video memory that *should* be enough. Possibly something else is causing the issue. BIOS setting, etc.


Phantasee

join:2009-08-27
Hammond, LA
reply to arson_fire

I have an SSD in my new build and my homemade blood elf dancing GIFS load fast so I can unload faster. My life is way more efficient now. Thanks SSD!!!!!!!!!!!111



Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by Phantasee:

I have an SSD in my new build and my homemade blood elf dancing GIFS load fast so I can unload faster. My life is way more efficient now. Thanks SSD!!!!!!!!!!!111

that's it... I'm getting an SSD.


Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1

said by Immer:

that's it... I'm getting an SSD.

I have two in my desktop. One for booting OS/apps and one for WoW.

From cold boot to a usable desktop state in about 10 seconds. Of course I do have a higher end system with a fast i7 processor and 12GB RAM as well.


quatra
Premium
join:2003-06-22
Matthews, NC
reply to Scilicet

said by Scilicet:

You may be right about that. 1gb isn't all that much. I am sure it's a FIFO deal to keep the video memory updated. I do notice that the data rate of the SSD is twice that of a standard HD. 6gb/s vs. 3gb/s respectively. Even with a large processor cache you are still dependent on the bus rate from the DMA.

More important than the data transfer rate is the seek time - SSD basically has zero seek time, versus the old school spinning platter that is physically moving the head all over the place because things are so rarely sequentially stored. My old drive benchmarked over 100MB/sec, my SSD benchmarks over 500MB/sec, but the difference is much greater than 5x faster feel it's night and day - it FEELS 100x faster (I suppose the seek time is much more than 100x faster).

I've used the OCZ vertex II which crashed after about a year, and I've been using the crucial M4 128 for over a year now and so far so good. You can find the crucial M4's for $1/gig on sale. Your motherboard might bottleneck them though (500MB/sec = over 4gbit) but you'll still benefit from the instant seek time.


Scilicet
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join:2005-04-11
Aurora, CO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage

Yes, I agree. I have been looking into these SSD's. They're not cheap; $60 for a 60GB and up to $700 for a Samsung 512GB. The Crucial M4 512GB is indeed on sale right now for $400. Unfortunately, it is already sold out at my local Microcenter. However, you can get it at Amazon or Newegg for that price. Very tempting at this price if I don't say so myself.



Scilicet
Spaced Out
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join:2005-04-11
Aurora, CO
kudos:1
reply to quatra

Well, I bought the 512GB Crucial M4 SSD. 3 year warranty. I'll be installing it this weekend.



Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8

/envy



Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1

said by Immer:

/envy

Ditto!

Mine are 80 and 60GB only :-(


Scilicet
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Aurora, CO
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Reviews:
·Vonage

1 edit

I'll be sure to let you know how well these SSD's improve things.

BTW look what I found:

»www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/14···tem.html



Scilicet
Spaced Out
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join:2005-04-11
Aurora, CO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage
reply to Immer

said by Immer:

/envy

Well, there is a good reason why Crucial sells their M4 512GB SSD so cheaply. I bought it for $400 vs. the Samsung model that goes for $700. The Crucial device is a piece of crap. Wasted an entire day on it. I used Windows 7 Disk Management, TRIM, and I even bought the Paragon Migrate OS from HDD to SSD program for $20. Nothing that I could do could get this piece of crap bootable. What a disappointment. I would recommend avoiding Crucial products and their Support people suck as well.


Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1

said by Scilicet:

said by Immer:

/envy

Well, there is a good reason why Crucial sells their M4 512GB SSD so cheaply. I bought it for $400 vs. the Samsung model that goes for $700. The Crucial device is a piece of crap. Wasted an entire day on it. I used Windows 7 Disk Management, TRIM, and I even bought the Paragon Migrate OS from HDD to SSD program for $20. Nothing that I could do could get this piece of crap bootable. What a disappointment. I would recommend avoiding Crucial products and their Support people suck as well.

Did you physically connect it to the primary SATA port on your motherboard? There are limitations as to which drive and port you can boot from.

Swap cables with your primary boot drive and check the boot order in the BIOS.


quatra
Premium
join:2003-06-22
Matthews, NC
reply to Scilicet

Is your PC not seeing the new drive? Sorry to hear it hasn't gone smoothly for you. I've only used 2 SSDs, OCZ and Crucial and they both behaved just like a regular drive for me. I did fresh OS installs on them never attempted to transfer an existing install. Have you checked to see if you have the latest firmware on the drive?



Scilicet
Spaced Out
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join:2005-04-11
Aurora, CO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage
reply to Goldheart

Yes, I tried all that. The first warning that something was not right was when I first brought up the machine with the new SSD. The system failed to give that "New Hardware Found" message. Disk Management could assign a logical id and name to the drive, but it would just vanish again after a while. TRIM could see the drive, the BIOS could see the drive, I could read and write to it as long as it was in the device list, but the system couldn't find it at boot time. No, I have a bad unit. Couldn't verify that I had the right firmware either and Crucial tech support was useless. So, it goes back via UPS Monday for a swap out.



Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1

said by Scilicet:

Yes, I tried all that. The first warning that something was not right was when I first brought up the machine with the new SSD. The system failed to give that "New Hardware Found" message. Disk Management could assign a logical id and name to the drive, but it would just vanish again after a while. TRIM could see the drive, the BIOS could see the drive, I could read and write to it as long as it was in the device list, but the system couldn't find it at boot time. No, I have a bad unit. Couldn't verify that I had the right firmware either and Crucial tech support was useless. So, it goes back via UPS Monday for a swap out.

You might need a BIOS update if your motherboard is older. Some can't handle larger drives.


Scilicet
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Aurora, CO
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Reviews:
·Vonage

The Mobo is only a year old (MSI 785GM-P45) and has the latest BIOS update. Besides, I have a 1TB drive that works fine. I sent all the logs to Paragon Software and I'll let them figure it out. I am still convinced that the firmware is bad and a few reviews on Amazon claim similar problems, although most people have no problems. I just got a lemon, I think. After all, it was made in China; who knows how it was tested - if at all. I have worked my time on the production floor and sometimes you send out known bad devices just to make your quota figuring by the time Field Service or in this case Customer Service gets hold of it you will have a new batch of devices ready to replace the bad.



Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12

I just had one of these mobos blow out on me due to a (suspected) bad PSU. It took out one of the HDDs and ram as well. Had to rebuild everything.

I am not a fan of the el cheapo motherboards that are under $90 or so. I also would never trust the MSI 785GM-P45 again.

Here's my horror story with the board which I admittedly tackled on behalf of a non-technical friend: »Troubleshooting a PSU
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.



navymaverick

join:2011-07-21
Papillion, NE
kudos:3

said by Krisnatharok:

I just had one... blow... me due to a (suspected) bad... ram...

You said it, not me.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12


your mind went there
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.