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Bobby_Peru
Premium
join:2003-06-16
reply to Mele20

Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info

said by Mele20 :

.... It seems to me that this concern among browser makers about this fast start for browsers may be a legitimate concern for laptop users but not most desktop users. ...

MoFo does seem to have become obsessed with this. The driving importance of giving Buffy and "instant on" (FaceBook) fix is even mentioned in one of the Blog posts about silent updates,. maybe in one of these below...

»www.brianbondy.com/blog/id/133/
»lawrencemandel.com/2012/02/03/im···erience/


Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:13
reply to FF4m3

 

The whole thing is stupid!

WHY OPEN A TAB WITH ONE OF YOUR PAGES IF THE PAGE ISNT LOADED??

I have MyIE2 and I can save a group of pages so next time all i gotta do is click GROUPS and then the filename i saved..... ALL PAGES OPEN!! (All tabs are loaded)

What FF is doing is bizarre! (If i understand it right.. The tab is opened but no page is there when you goto said tab (SO WHY BOTHER??))

Is this correct Mele?


Sentinel
Premium
join:2001-02-07
Florida
kudos:2
reply to FF4m3

Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info

I am guessing that this is not a problem for me because of my browsing behavior. If I go to a secure site, such as online banking, then I go just to that site alone. After I am done I close the browser and clear it. Then I reopen and do regular browsing.

I'm guessing that by doing that this issue doesn't matter; right?

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Dude111

Re:  

said by Dude111:

What FF is doing is bizarre! (If i understand it right.. The tab is opened but no page is there when you goto said tab (SO WHY BOTHER??))

Is this correct Mele?

The tab loads but NOT until you click on it. So, you have to wait for it to load. Only one tab actually loads when you start Fx and it loads your tabs from your last session. The other tabs don't load until you click on each of them. I'd rather wait when I start Fx and have it load all tabs right then when I start it even if that means I can't actually use Fx for awhile until all the tabs load. To me, it is a trick because the tabs look like they are all loaded but they are not loaded (except for one) until you click on them. On Opera, it tries to guess which tabs you will use first and it loads those when you start it....that doesn't make sense either because how can it guess correctly which tabs you will use first?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


therube

join:2004-11-11
Randallstown, MD
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
reply to Mele20

Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info

There is zero point in having tabs restored on starting Fx or SM unless they are actually all restored when you start the browser - for you.

But not for me.

And there is a choice in the matter.

Now FF went with one default.
And SeaMonkey went with the other default.

But either can change to the other.

That's called choice & that is fine by me.


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Mele20

Re:  

Isn't that behavior an option? I recall seeing that option and thinking, "cool, it'll start up quicker and I won't lose all my tabs to the login screen at Panera" when configuring FF on my laptop.

Actually, I just checked. My laptop runs FF 13, and it is a checkbox, "don't load tabs until selected." If I simply uncheck it, all tabs are loaded fully on start up. No tricks, they actually load. Or, no tricks, they don't load until you click them, because you told it not to.

Opera 12 meanwhile appears to behave the same as before. No tricks there either, but also no option to leave tabs unloaded until clicked, which makes sense, since Opera's method is to pull from the cache on startup if it can.
--
Think Outside the Fox.


rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA
reply to Mele20
I have Firefox set to clear my browsing history when I exit, so tabs aren't reloaded (except when there is a live update and I choose to let Firefox restart). All I get when I start Firefox is my home page. I have the BetterPrivacy extension installed, which also helps to get rid of unwanted cookies.
--
It is easier for a camel to put on a bikini than an old man to thread a needle.


rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA
reply to sivran
Come to think of it and checking my options, I have Firefox set to "don't load tabs until selected," the same as you do. That, combined with clearing history on exit and the use of BetterPrivacy pretty much prevents anything from being reloaded when the browser is opened again.
--
It is easier for a camel to put on a bikini than an old man to thread a needle.

Bobby_Peru
Premium
join:2003-06-16
said by rcdailey:

Come to think of it and checking my options, I have Firefox set to "don't load tabs until selected," the same as you do...

Where is that GUI setting? I haven't found it in Fx, TMP, or Session Manager. I guess it's post Fx 11.0, or ?

I have noticed, that starting some uncertain time in the past month or four, but definitely post upgrading from 3.x, upon Restarts and/or Session Loads, some tabs will be blank, with only the url listed in the GoTo field, which must be clicked to load the tab. Double-clicking the tab to actually load it, results in a blank tab once again.

It's really annoying, and a huge waist of time when running with so many tabs, and extensions to keep updated.

I wasn't sure what to first suspect, but thought at some point I would start with extensions, like TMP, Session Manager, and TBE, and even NS and Secure Sanitize

Is this what you all are referring to as tabs not loaded until selected?


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to FF4m3

Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info

For those who want all tabs to load at start:

do about:config

search - browser.sessionstore.restore

if desired toggle browser.sessionstore.restore_hidden_tabs value to true and/or browser.sessionstore.restore_pinned_tabs_on_demand value to true.


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Bobby_Peru

Re:  

Not sure when the option appeared. It is under the General tab in Options. My desktop has Firefox 7 and PaleMoon 12 on it. FF 7 lacks the option, but it's present in PaleMoon.

So, if it's not in your FF 11, it must have been added in 12.

I rather like it, especially on my laptop which I take to places which may have a portal on their wifi. If FF tried to load all the tabs, I'd end up with a half dozen tabs sitting on the portal page.
--
Think Outside the Fox.

Bobby_Peru
Premium
join:2003-06-16
reply to FF4m3

Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info

Thanks! I don't know if this was in Fx. 11's GUI out-of-the-box, but Session Manager does have a selection for this, and ticking it does change browser.sessionstore.restore_hidden_tabs value to true.

Not sure if these intermittent blank pages are related to this, as most tabs do load, and I will have to see what happens on Restarts v. Session Loads.

Either way, thanks again.

Aha, the joy of highly configurable applications, with highly configurable after market modifications.....

Bobby_Peru
Premium
join:2003-06-16
reply to sivran

Re:  

Thanks sivran See Profile for your response. Please see my above response. It does make sense to be able to control this just as you mention. Thanks again!


rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA
reply to Bobby_Peru
I "think" it's a default setting in Firefox 13, but I am not using Firefox at the moment because I am not on my personal computer. I am trying to remember if it's in the General options or in one of the other panels in Options. However, you do not have to dig deep to find it. If you have an earlier version of Firefox, it probably does not matter.
--
It is easier for a camel to put on a bikini than an old man to thread a needle.


chachazz
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:9
Reviews:
·TELUS
reply to sivran
said by sivran:

Not sure when the option appeared. It is under the General tab in Options. My desktop has Firefox 7 and PaleMoon 12 on it. FF 7 lacks the option, but it's present in PaleMoon.

Firefox 8, November 2011.
quote:
Added a preference to load tabs on demand, improving start-up time when windows are restored
--
Gladiator Security Forum: www.gladiator-antivirus.com/


FF4m3

@verizon.net
reply to Bobby_Peru

Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info

said by Bobby_Peru:

Thanks!

You're welcome.

I found these options by merely searching about:config for "restore" (as in 'restore tabs'). It was a simple and logical thing to do.


therube

join:2004-11-11
Randallstown, MD
reply to Bobby_Peru

Re:  

> Where is that GUI setting?

I posted a link (the second) in this post, »Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to sivran
Another reason to not allow any cache on any browser. If they load from cache, then you have to restart them anyway so I don't want Opera or Fx, etc loading from cache. That reminds me of those stupid settings that should no longer exist regarding when the browser checks for a new page. Those settings have been in browsers forever and should have been removed as soon as most people got broadband. Even on dialup, I had that setting at "check every time for a new page" so why would, years later, on fast broadband (and mine is just standard RR ...not really fast but fast compared to dialup) would I want tabs restored from cache? Terrible idea. But Opera doesn't load each tab one by one starting on the farthermost left tab. It loads them according to what it thinks are the ones you will use first. I don't like that either. That's a "trick".

Plus, you can't tell when all are loaded except by mousing over each tab or watching Task Manager for CPU usage to fully die down and stay died down. At least on Fx (not Sea Monkey which is like Opera), I can tell when all tabs are loaded because I have an extension that shows a loading bar underneath each thumbnail on the tab (thumbnail on each tab in Fx is also from another extension) that is progressive so you can see when it is loaded. But on Fx, the tabs do not start loading from the top down (I have the tabs vertically on the left side). The start of loading seems random and jumps all over the place when it should be orderly from the top most (or left most) tab. These are all things that need fixing by the browser makers. Instead, they concentrate on non-useful tricks so you think your browser is faster than other browsers which is not the question that should asked. IMO, the question should be which browser most efficiently, transparently and in an orderly manner, loads all tabs when started?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to chachazz
said by chachazz:

said by sivran:

Not sure when the option appeared. It is under the General tab in Options. My desktop has Firefox 7 and PaleMoon 12 on it. FF 7 lacks the option, but it's present in PaleMoon.

Firefox 8, November 2011.
quote:
Added a preference to load tabs on demand, improving start-up time when windows are restored

Then Mozilla must have removed that option in 9 or 10 because I don't have it in 10 ESR.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


HPC99

@comcast.net
said by Mele20:

Then Mozilla must have removed that option in 9 or 10 because I don't have it in 10 ESR.

I have ESR version 10.0.5 and the "Don't load tabs until selected" option is a right where sivran said - under the General tab in Options - listed in the Startup section as a check box option (same place as my Fx 13.0.1 non-ESR version lists it).


therube

join:2004-11-11
Randallstown, MD
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
reply to Mele20
Again, there is choice.
You have it your way, I'll have it mine.

As far as I can tell ...

(SeaMonkey) loads the first window, then loads all the other windows, then (in my case I have it set to load 0 tabs upon Session Restore) it moves sequentially through each window, loading the current tab in each, & dumping back where you last were before quitting. (In what sequence it does if you load all tabs automatically, I'm not sure?)

quote:
you can't tell when all are loaded except by mousing over each tab or watching Task Manager for CPU usage
What are you trying to say? That MS neglected to put a network indicator icon in Vista & Win7 so that you can quickly & easily monitor such things? (I suppose there is always hope for Win8, NOT!)

Network Activity Indicator for Windows 7

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to HPC99
Click for full size
said by HPC99 :

said by Mele20:

Then Mozilla must have removed that option in 9 or 10 because I don't have it in 10 ESR.

I have ESR version 10.0.5 and the "Don't load tabs until selected" option is a right where sivran said - under the General tab in Options - listed in the Startup section as a check box option (same place as my Fx 13.0.1 non-ESR version lists it).

I had to look TWO more times just now after reading your post to see it. It is GRAYED OUT and in RED font on a red background so it is difficult to see but I finally saw it.

I am not sure why it is grayed out but likely has to do with either how I have Session Manager set up or with my TBE 3 extensions that control tab behavior in Fx along with Session Manager.

All "browser.session" entries in about:config are at default values (so I didn't change something there and then forgot it) so that possibility is not why the option is grayed out.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to LondonOntGuy

Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info

said by LondonOntGuy:

So tell me, why do people continue to 'update' Firefox?

 
Because they CAN.

( Though I know of a famous question about dogs/cats which yields the same punchline. )


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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START Today!
kudos:7

4 edits
reply to Dude111

Re:  

said by Dude111:

quote:
So tell me, why do people continue to 'update' Firefox?
I dunno bud.... To me the FF 1.5 series is the best! (1.5.0.5 to be exact) looks and runs the best!

 
I too have several gripes about functionalities which FF developers arbitrarily removed/changed/renamed, as newer editions came down the pipe.

Here's just ONE :

In 1.5 (or was it 2.0 ?), they had an Arrow icon which was to the right of the address line, and you would click on it to [Enter] your typed completed URL.

I relocated it to the right of the button bar so that I could use it as the final step in a copy>new-tab>paste>enter mouse manoeuvre sequence (of a URL from a current tab), IIRC - a function which was the default action in IE for a new window in versions 5 & 6.

FF later tied this button TO the address line so that I could not independently relocate it to use as above.

I was P.O.'d for some time, but later settled on series 3.6 until recently, when the current thread caught my eye - with its OT digression about loading all of the tabs at once or not.

You don't need a large corporation like M$ in order to 'achieve' anarchy in app development.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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START Today!
kudos:7

3 edits
reply to Davesnothere

Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info

Click for full size
said by Davesnothere:

said by Xioden:

Yup, I agree, I also would have stuck with Firefox 3.6 more likely than not had I not been able to change it back to how it was (see screenshot). I don't have the bookmark toolbar showing (and I didn't disable addons), but other than that, my addons, and a slightly different back/forward button and combined refresh and stop button it looks and feels the same.

This and this are all that is need to get it back the 3.6 look.

I also use Chrome a lot for videos/netflix/etc. It has a pop-out+always on top option for any video which I find handy.

 
Thanks for posting that.

I'll investigate the add-ons, though I think that I demonstrated to myself with version 12 of FF that I could move things around pretty effectively even from a default install and no add-ons.

However, I have some recent other beefs with FF, such as why there is no more 'SAVE ALL TABs as GROUP' option when you click Bookmarks in the top menu - this happened around ver 4 or 5.

There are other issues, and I'll post as they come to mind....

 
The above screenshot is of FF 13.0.1 with no addons beyond what Moz included.

Note that the Address & Search lines now share with the Menu bar (None of that on IE since ver 6), and that the LINK bar (Bookmarks bar) content shares with the button bar (and then turn off the original link bar to get the vertical space back.).

Also note that I have put some FOLDERS in the LINK bar and that they pop down showing categorized links if clicked - A VERY powerful function ! (Though not unique to FF)

Further, I moved the 'MORE TABs' dropdown from the right to the left of the TAB bar, using 'Customize'.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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1 edit
reply to sivran

Load TABs NOW or LATER

said by sivran:

Isn't that behavior an option? I recall seeing that option and thinking, "cool, it'll start up quicker and I won't lose all my tabs....

Actually, I just checked. My laptop runs FF 13, and it is a checkbox, "don't load tabs until selected." If I simply uncheck it, all tabs are loaded fully on start up. No tricks, they actually load. Or, no tricks, they don't load until you click them, because you told it not to....

 
Although this part of the discussion is not the original topic of this thread, it turns out that I'm quite pleased to have stumbled upon it.

Trick or not, engaging this functionality alleviates/eliminates the browser memory consumption catalyzed by Tab-o-Holics such as m'self, and I do not at all mind needing to click on a tab to make it load.

Hey, it's a lot like how bookmarks function, and I'm a Bookmark-o-Holic too.

So far, I have upgraded 2 Vista-SP2 PCs here and 1 XP-SP3 PC each to FF 13.0.1, in order to get and engage this feature, and have figured out how to make the general appearance of the browser close enough (see above post's screenshot) to what I could do with FF 3.6 or with Opera.


fush noodle

@optonline.net
reply to FF4m3

Re: Firefox 'New Tab' Feature Exposes Users' Secured Info

hmm? where are the snap shots being stored?

i surf in private mode and don't store/cache any data....

wtf is all this about?

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Davesnothere
That's crappy. I don't want the address bar on the Menu line! Why did MoFo move it?


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
They didn't. He did.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

That's crappy. I don't want the address bar on the Menu line! Why did MoFo move it?

 
Sivran is correct - I moved it.

But that is secondary to why I even BOTHERED to warm up to a recent version of FF.

I just happen to LIKE the trick/feature/whatever which lets my many tabs NOT load until I click on each, and wish that Moz had made that setting the default, and had bragged more about it.

But back to the layout (ALSO OT for this thread )....

I have shared the menu bar with the address line since IE5, and with today's stupid widescreen displays, I would think that more folks would see the point of prioritizing saving as much as practical of their much diminished vertical space for the actual WEB PAGEs, rather than for menues, buttons, etc.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !