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Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to Jack_in_VA

Re: What the home insecptor found...

They have, like national unions, local offices. And they petition political figures and entities the same way to get what they want. Trust me when I say the members of an organization like ABC will do whatever it takes to get more work, just like you say about the unions.

That aside, it bothers me when people make claims like you did without having any proof backing up the claim. WI is a very strong union state, as is Michigan. And there are many others. IL is the only one that has a no romex law, as far as I am aware. To say it is because of unions just seems like another anti-union person looking to blame them for yet something else.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
reply to SuperNet9
To clarify things:
I do hold one license in Illinois. They do not have statewide licensing. It's municipal. The NEC is adopted and amended on the local level in IL.
Up north, it's very common to have "romex free" areas. I'm not aware of any municipalities that allow SEU / SER except in the country (rural areas). Most require everything in the service to be hard piped (heavywall or IMC), no aluminum pipe or wire.
Some places don't allow 15A circuits.
Yes, IL is very quirky.

To the OP: the fact that they used Romex and not conduit means they didn't get permits for the work. You might want to check into that closer. It will be an issue when you sell as well. It could also be an issue if you have to get a C.O.O.
--
...because I care.

AricBrown

join:2002-12-11
Amarillo, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to Hall
said by Hall:

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit.

I'm not disputing your statement, but I looked at Lowes for Naperville IL and they sell Romex. Can't be much demand for it... Yes, I realize people could buy it and use it out of state, but that's not very practical.

Doesn't New York (City) have similar requirements of using flexible metal conduit (and effectively no Romex) ?

The city I live in does not allow 14 gauge wire only 12 for normal residential construction. Both lowes and home depot sell it. But I can use Romex

So just because you cant use it doesn't mean you cant buy it.


grobinette
Southeast of disorder
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-27
Springfield, VA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to SuperNet9
Guys, did SuperNet9 See Profile ask about romex, conduit or opinions on unions?

He just asked for some advice on an inspectors report.

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to SuperNet9
Walk, no, run away, its a money pit and you have un-permitted renovations done, its unlikely the bathroom isn't the only thing the weekend warriors messed with.

In this market, its finical suicide to invest in a property with so many expensive items that will require replacement.

I would look the property up in Zillow.com and then subtract 50K minimum, as the offer to purchase price, the AC ( 8k), Heat( 3K), Hotwater(500) and roof(12K) all need to be replaced and all code violation fixed and signed off by the building department before you could resell the property

Why did you pick this home?


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to SuperNet9
said by SuperNet9:

Well I got an inspector for a house I am thinking of buying

1) He said the AC unit is about 15 years old...
2) He said the new bathroom they built the type of wiring isn't code (see attached pic, the middle pic). (is it ok wiring ??)
3)The Attic fan isn't working
4)The roof has about 10 years on it left..
5) The water heater is 15 years old ( that still good?)
6)Bathroom fan isn't working
7) The Attached 2 car garage has some spots where it isn't patched so the fumes can get into the house.

Other than that, the house seems fine... If I wanted to fix/replace things he said, how much would it cost? Should I go with a house with these types of issues?

I think you should run as fast as you can away from this house. You may get a good purchase price but it will be downhill from then on never ending money pit.


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

1 recommendation

A water heater, AC and some fans not working is not a reason to run IMO. You're gonna be hard pressed to find a house that doesn't need something fixed. Even a brand new one. We bought our current house in 2005 and have since replaced the furnace, A/C, water heater, upgraded the electrical and remodeled the kitchen and basement.

You're never gonna find a house that needs no repairs. Ask the sellers to do it or adjust your offer so you can do it your self.
Expand your moderator at work


Sly
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Chuckey, TN
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to SuperNet9

Re: What the home insecptor found...

Age is not very important when it comes to water heater life. Maintenance is... If someone has regularly flushed out the tank and has replaced the anode rod as needed, a water heater will practically last forever...

As for the A/C, if it doesn't leak then why replace it with a new one? I replaced the contactor, capacitors and some old wiring connections in mine and cleaned out the duct work and blower cage. Maintenance and some light repair goes a long way.

I didn't replace my truck once it got old and I don't plan on replacing my heat pump either. Just rebuild it. A/C techs make too much money off trying to sell someone a "new car" every time they need an oil change. /metaphor

As for the attic fan, I would just recommend getting rid of it. If you install a thermal barrier, a ridge vent and working soffit vents then you shouldn't even need a fan and your house will stay cooler and your roof will last longer.


noninspector

@mindspring.com
reply to toby
As for home inspectors always finding a problem so you feel you got your money's worth, I have to disagree. I've used 4 different inspectors for houses I've bought in the past 15 years, and none of them were worth the fee paid. They found minor problems, but all missed major defects such as very little attic insulation (1"), a leaking roof, or a failing septic system that I as a somewhat uneducated homeowner discovered after the closing. Most home inspectors in my area are recommended by the Realtor, and they obviously don't want to bite the hand that feeds them by killing a deal.


Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

2 recommendations

reply to grobinette
said by grobinette:

Guys, did SuperNet9 See Profile ask about romex, conduit or opinions on unions?

He just asked for some advice on an inspectors report.

Well part of the inspector's report dealt with romex wire and that does not meet code because of the requirements for conduit. So she guess he did ask.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
said by Msradell:

said by grobinette:

Guys, did SuperNet9 See Profile ask about romex, conduit or opinions on unions?

He just asked for some advice on an inspectors report.

Well part of the inspector's report dealt with romex wire and that does not meet code because of the requirements for conduit. So she guess he did ask.

I agree, this is what he asked. "2) He said the new bathroom they built the type of wiring isn't code (see attached pic, the middle pic). (is it ok wiring ??)" so, romex and conduit is relevent, conduit is ok, but not romex in HIS area.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to noninspector
Amen. My home inspector pointed out several very minor things while missing some apparent major things, but to be fair, the previous home owners had gone to fair lengths to try and cover up problems rather then actually repair them. Just because they were a "sweet old couple" didn't mean they weren't a sneaky old couple!
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


chmod
Premium
join:2000-12-12
Lockport, IL
reply to Jon
said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

I think it varies by city County perhaps. I was involved in a complete gut and rehab in Wilmington pulled permits for everything and romex was used inspected and passed. However all the new construction houses I worked on in the Naperville Yorkville Plainfield area are all conduit.
--
Some people are like Slinkies. Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

Viper677
Certified Home Inspector

join:2012-03-22
Toronto

1 edit
reply to SuperNet9
said by SuperNet9:

Well I got an inspector for a house I am thinking of buying

1) He said the AC unit is about 15 years old...
2) He said the new bathroom they built the type of wiring isn't code (see attached pic, the middle pic). (is it ok wiring ??)
3)The Attic fan isn't working
4)The roof has about 10 years on it left..
5) The water heater is 15 years old ( that still good?)
6)Bathroom fan isn't working
7) The Attached 2 car garage has some spots where it isn't patched so the fumes can get into the house.

Other than that, the house seems fine... If I wanted to fix/replace things he said, how much would it cost? Should I go with a house with these types of issues?

When you say the attic fan isn't working, are you talking about one of those turbine vents on the roofs? It might not be that big of a problem as long as your roof as soffits and ridge/roof vent installed.
If your roof does not have roof and ridge vents and this turbine vent (which is not working) is the only vent available then it needs to get fixed.
You roof needs to breathe.

Is this is a misinterpretation or did he really say that you roof has about 10 years left? I can never tell how many years something is going to last? What I do say is, something like, your house is 20 years old, typical asphalt shingles last for about 15-20 years and this roof is 10 years old. There is/is not a problem with the roof now and that you should budget for a new roof that you might need within the next 10 years.

Bathroom fan needs to work, it is not a small problem. Well depending on how long it has been this way. Bathroom exhaust fan collects the moisture from the bathroom and throws it outside. It needs to be terminated to the exterior and if it goes through the attic then the vent pipe needs to be insulated.

He is talking about gas proofing in the garage which is also important.

How much does this cost? Depends on who you hire for this work? How come he did not give you an estimate on these? I also give a rough estimate to my clients.

oh BTW - your inspection report should have description, limitations, recommendations, and implications related to each of these issues listed. If your home inspector had included these items in his report then you probably did not have all these questions.
--
Certified Home Inspector
Certified Level 1 Thermographer

Viper677
Certified Home Inspector

join:2012-03-22
Toronto
reply to toby

What you need to remember with home inspectors is that they will always find a problem, even if there isn't a problem.

That does not make any sense how can they find a 'problem' if it is not a problem? If they state the description, recommendation and implication of a 'problem' in the report then it is a 'problem'. Whether it is a small or a big problem is a separate issue.

#3 and #6 are not just broken items. There is a purpose for those things.

And there is not such thing as a perfect house, I have never been to a house where I was not able to find a problem.
--
Certified Home Inspector
Certified Level 1 Thermographer


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
reply to Sly
Really? Did you replace your aged compressor also? At that service life it could go at any time.

Viper677
Certified Home Inspector

join:2012-03-22
Toronto
reply to noninspector
said by noninspector :

As for home inspectors always finding a problem so you feel you got your money's worth, I have to disagree. I've used 4 different inspectors for houses I've bought in the past 15 years, and none of them were worth the fee paid. They found minor problems, but all missed major defects such as very little attic insulation (1"), a leaking roof, or a failing septic system that I as a somewhat uneducated homeowner discovered after the closing. Most home inspectors in my area are recommended by the Realtor, and they obviously don't want to bite the hand that feeds them by killing a deal.

If you were not happy with 4 different inspectors in the past 15 years then this is a problem with you not hiring the right inspector for the job and is NOT a problem with the inspection industry.

If you know that they missed major defects then you can take them to court.

The first thing you should do is stop hiring home inspectors recommended by your realtor.
--
Certified Home Inspector
Certified Level 1 Thermographer


Sly
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Chuckey, TN
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

Really? Did you replace your aged compressor also? At that service life it could go at any time.

Yes. Replaced the reciprocating compressor with a scroll compressor. Acid test showed no acid in the lines. Evap and condenser cleaned up completely. $700 compressor install was still cheaper than a $3000 heat pump replacement. Don't get me wrong though, he did want to sell me a new heat pump. They all do.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by Sly:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Really? Did you replace your aged compressor also? At that service life it could go at any time.

Yes. Replaced the reciprocating compressor with a scroll compressor. Acid test showed no acid in the lines. Evap and condenser cleaned up completely. $700 compressor install was still cheaper than a $3000 heat pump replacement. Don't get me wrong though, he did want to sell me a new heat pump. They all do.

So you stayed with R-22? I just upgraded from a 14i to 16i and it's completely different equipment.


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to Viper677
said by Viper677:

If you know that they missed major defects then you can take them to court.

Maybe in Canada, but I don't think that's common here. They (the inspectors) will surely have a waiver in their contract that keeps them non-liable for anything they don't find. Imagine a 90-day old water heater that fails two weeks after you move in (due to a manufacturing defect), and the inspector is responsible ?
said by Viper677:

How much does this cost? Depends on who you hire for this work? How come he did not give you an estimate on these? I also give a rough estimate to my clients.

The inspectors might give some verbal, ballpark numbers, but it basically comes down to "not their job" (I don't mean that in a negative way, mind you).

Viper677
Certified Home Inspector

join:2012-03-22
Toronto
said by Hall:

said by Viper677:

If you know that they missed major defects then you can take them to court.

Maybe in Canada, but I don't think that's common here. They (the inspectors) will surely have a waiver in their contract that keeps them non-liable for anything they don't find. Imagine a 90-day old water heater that fails two weeks after you move in (due to a manufacturing defect), and the inspector is responsible ?
said by Viper677:

How much does this cost? Depends on who you hire for this work? How come he did not give you an estimate on these? I also give a rough estimate to my clients.

The inspectors might give some verbal, ballpark numbers, but it basically comes down to "not their job" (I don't mean that in a negative way, mind you).

Ok - it might be different where you are but I still strongly believe that home inspection standards are pretty similar in both US and Canada. You just have to do a little more research into this as to what can be done if inspector missed something big. Maybe send him an email first to see what he has to say and then go from there.

Standard of Practice are listed here (for US) and if you are getting anything less than this then you have a case.

»www.homeinspector.org/docs/standards.pdf

I dont like inspectors doing crappy inspections.

In Ontario, it does not matter what type of contract you singed, if you miss something big then the judge can order you to pay for it (not always but most likely).

At the same time, our inspection contract protects us from dead beat customers. For example, if an inspector says, you have wood siding and down the road you call the inspector and complain as to why he did not identify the type of wood siding, you are probably crazy. But if the inspector says, you have brick siding, he has to identify whether it is brick veneer or solid brick structure. This is important because brick veneer is just a siding but solid brick is part of the structure. BIG DIFFERENCE.

In your example of water heater, no the inspector will not be responsible because the water heater was just fine on the day of the inspection.

Well, "not their job' is not a good response from the inspector. If I cant give them a rough estimate at the spot, I tell them that I will include in my report after looking it up. But someone asks me how much is it going to cost to fix a leaking foundation crack then I tell them that it is a big project and they need to hire a professional (because of so many variables).
--
Certified Home Inspector
Certified Level 1 Thermographer


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
said by Viper677:

In your example of water heater, no the inspector will not be responsible because the water heater was just fine on the day of the inspection.

Well, using that logic, if it ain't "broke" on the day of the inspection, the inspector is free and clear ! Not that I disagree with that either... By stating "furnace is 18 years old and typical life is '15' years" (made up numbers for sake of discussion), if it fails a year later, the inspector did his/her job. Maybe that's why they point out older equipment or infrastructure.

What if the basement was dry, no signs of dampness or odor, on the inspection day but the first big rain you get water in the basement ? Can't blame the inspector for missing it. Of course for this scenario, the homeowner had better of disclosed that this happens.

Back to giving cost estimates for repair or replacement, as you say, there's often too many variables, but for smaller things, I imagine many will do it "unofficially" though. Our garage door needed a pulley replaced - everything else was fine. He said it's less than $10 part and can be done yourself. We simply had the realtor include it in the list of things needing fixed (by the current owner).

Viper677
Certified Home Inspector

join:2012-03-22
Toronto
said by Hall:

said by Viper677:

In your example of water heater, no the inspector will not be responsible because the water heater was just fine on the day of the inspection.

Well, using that logic, if it ain't "broke" on the day of the inspection, the inspector is free and clear ! Not that I disagree with that either... By stating "furnace is 18 years old and typical life is '15' years" (made up numbers for sake of discussion), if it fails a year later, the inspector did his/her job. Maybe that's why they point out older equipment or infrastructure.

Correct. Basically, the inspector needs to identify if the system is at the end of its useful life and then make recommendations.

What if the basement was dry, no signs of dampness or odor, on the inspection day but the first big rain you get water in the basement ? Can't blame the inspector for missing it. Of course for this scenario, the homeowner had better of disclosed that this happens.

Right and I have gotten these calls as well. But nothing can be done about it. I can not tell if basement will leak when it rains. But i always look for signs of leakage happened in the past (good home inspectors always do that). I look for dampness, use my nose for signs of moisture, any sings of efflorescence, if they have cardboard boxes on the floor see if there are any water marks on them, painted foundation walls etc. You know, you do your best for the client.


Back to giving cost estimates for repair or replacement, as you say, there's often too many variables, but for smaller things, I imagine many will do it "unofficially" though. Our garage door needed a pulley replaced - everything else was fine. He said it's less than $10 part and can be done yourself. We simply had the realtor include it in the list of things needing fixed (by the current owner).

I dont tell if it is a DIY project because I dont know their 'handy skill level'. But I do tell them how to fix it and based on their body language and their repose to my feedback, I establish if its a major or minor project for them.

Having your realtor include that in the offer is a good strategy).

--
Certified Home Inspector
Certified Level 1 Thermographer


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
reply to SuperNet9

Re: What the home inspector found...

Walk away, find something else. It's a buyers market down there right now. Unless you want to press them a hard for a $145-150k sell.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jon

Re: What the home insecptor found...

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

Is it the whole of IL or just Chicago and suburbs?

I know Chicago also doesn't allow homeowners to do their own work.


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
I assumed all of IL. But according to chmod See Profile that's not the case. It is the case in Cook county though which is where I believe he's looking. And I lived in the city of Chicago for 10 years before moving out here and you can absolutely do your own work.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25

1 recommendation

reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Jon:

I'm sure it's safe. Just stating the fact that you can't use it here. Well, I suppose you can but you have to run it through conduit so it's kind of pointless.

Requiring conduit in a residential home is what's pointless. Either Romex is safe or it's not.

It was probably required before AFCI breakers were required. apparently, they are worried about a fire causing an electrical fire!.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by iknow:

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Jon:

I'm sure it's safe. Just stating the fact that you can't use it here. Well, I suppose you can but you have to run it through conduit so it's kind of pointless.

Requiring conduit in a residential home is what's pointless. Either Romex is safe or it's not.

It was probably required before AFCI breakers were required. apparently, they are worried about a fire causing an electrical fire!.

That doesn't answer the question. Either it's safe or it's not. The NEC deems it safe to use so there has to be another reason that "some" localities" ban it requiring conduit making an exception to the code.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
NYC dosen't allow romex because supposedly rodents chew through and cause problems.

It depends on population density and preparedness. A house goes up in the sticks and that sucks. A structure catches fire in a major metropolitan center and look what happened in Chicago in 1871.
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--
The preceding posting is null and void in Arizona and any other jurisdiction where prohibited by law.