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nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
reply to SuperNet9

Re: What the home insecptor found...

1) Near the end of life (about 18 years if you are lucky)
2) Your are probably does not allow romex cable.
5) Near the end of life.
--
...because I care.



FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

said by nunya:

2) Your are probably does not allow romex cable.

Out of curiosity, what's required by the NEC now? NMW? Might convert a bathroom into a kitchen and put in a powder room this fall, so I figured, I'd plan ahead (gonna get that inspected anyway, but it's better to do it right the first time
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.



FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

Yikes.. That'll put a dent in the housing development. I love your level of faith in the system
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to Jon

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

No it the result of Unions influencing building requirements. Romex is fine and used everywhere the Unions have not colluded with local officials to ban it making work for them at extra expense for the builder and buyers. If Romex is not safe in IL then it's not safe anywhere. Perhaps the NEC should not allow it.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

2 recommendations

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

No it the result of Unions influencing building requirements. Romex is fine and used everywhere the Unions have not colluded with local officials to ban it making work for them at extra expense for the builder and buyers. If Romex is not safe in IL then it's not safe anywhere. Perhaps the NEC should not allow it.

I heard the unions were also to blame for the heat wave that we've been experiencing and for the upcoming harsh winter
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
reply to Jack_in_VA

I'm sure it's safe. Just stating the fact that you can't use it here. Well, I suppose you can but you have to run it through conduit so it's kind of pointless.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by Jon:

I'm sure it's safe. Just stating the fact that you can't use it here. Well, I suppose you can but you have to run it through conduit so it's kind of pointless.

Requiring conduit in a residential home is what's pointless. Either Romex is safe or it's not.


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to Jon

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit.

I'm not disputing your statement, but I looked at Lowes for Naperville IL and they sell Romex. Can't be much demand for it... Yes, I realize people could buy it and use it out of state, but that's not very practical.

Doesn't New York (City) have similar requirements of using flexible metal conduit (and effectively no Romex) ?


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

1 recommendation

Here ya go

quote:
5-1F-1: ADOPTION:

For the purposes of supplementing the provisions and regulations contained in this title, and for setting forth minimum standards for the installation of electrical wiring, the city hereby adopts by reference the standards, specifications, rules and regulations of the National Fire Protection Association as compiled and published as the national electrical code, 2005 edition (NFPA no. 70-2005) (hereinafter referred to as the NEC), and the 2006 ICC electrical code, as amended, three (3) copies of each shall be kept on file in the city clerk's office for public inspection. (Ord. 06-301, 12-19-2006, eff. 1-1-2007)

5-1F-2: AMENDMENTS:

1.Section 603, Alternative Engineered Design: Delete in its entirety.

2.Chapter 11, Means Of Appeal: Delete in its entirety. (Ord. 02-31, 2-19-2002, eff. 4-8-2002)

5-1F-3: WIRING METHODS:

The wiring methods specified in chapter 3 of the NEC will be permitted by this article, except as noted below:

1. Article 336 - Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable: Type NM, type NMC, and type NMS cables shall only be permitted to be used in the following: Temporary wiring in accordance with NEC article 590 or low voltage lighting systems less than 30 volts in accordance with NEC article 411.

2. Article 338 - Service-Entrance Cable: Type SE cables shall only be permitted to be used in temporary wiring in accordance with NEC article 590. (Ord. 06-301, 12-19-2006, eff. 1-1-2007)


I know it's old but it hasn't changed


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

2 recommendations

reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

No it the result of Unions influencing building requirements. Romex is fine and used everywhere the Unions have not colluded with local officials to ban it making work for them at extra expense for the builder and buyers. If Romex is not safe in IL then it's not safe anywhere. Perhaps the NEC should not allow it.

Blame them for everything. Unions make up roughly 7% of the private sector work force. I think you are using them as a scapegoat, like many people do. It is more like the electrical industry as a whole influencing things, instead, if this is the case. You neglect to mention the political influence of large non-union building trades organizations such as ABC. »www.abc.org/Government_Affairs/P···tee.aspx


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

= Lurch77 See Profile]

Blame them for everything. Unions make up roughly 7% of the private sector work force. I think you are using them as a scapegoat, like many people do. It is more like the electrical industry as a whole influencing things

If that were the case it would be much more widespread instead of being concentrated in very strong union states like IL.

, instead, if this is the case. You neglect to mention the political influence of large non-union building trades organizations such as ABC. »www.abc.org/Government_Affairs/P···tee.aspx

quote:
The purpose of ABC PAC is to work within the federal election process to further the goals of the association through direct involvement in supporting and opposing candidates for the Office of President, United States Senate and United States House of Representatives. This is accomplished through educating our members on the importance of political activism and through financial support of merit shop candidates.

If you can explain to me what this has to do with Romex being banned in some states, I would appreciate it.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

1 recommendation

They have, like national unions, local offices. And they petition political figures and entities the same way to get what they want. Trust me when I say the members of an organization like ABC will do whatever it takes to get more work, just like you say about the unions.

That aside, it bothers me when people make claims like you did without having any proof backing up the claim. WI is a very strong union state, as is Michigan. And there are many others. IL is the only one that has a no romex law, as far as I am aware. To say it is because of unions just seems like another anti-union person looking to blame them for yet something else.


AricBrown

join:2002-12-11
Amarillo, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to Hall

said by Hall:

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit.

I'm not disputing your statement, but I looked at Lowes for Naperville IL and they sell Romex. Can't be much demand for it... Yes, I realize people could buy it and use it out of state, but that's not very practical.

Doesn't New York (City) have similar requirements of using flexible metal conduit (and effectively no Romex) ?

The city I live in does not allow 14 gauge wire only 12 for normal residential construction. Both lowes and home depot sell it. But I can use Romex

So just because you cant use it doesn't mean you cant buy it.


chmod
Premium
join:2000-12-12
Lockport, IL
reply to Jon

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

I think it varies by city County perhaps. I was involved in a complete gut and rehab in Wilmington pulled permits for everything and romex was used inspected and passed. However all the new construction houses I worked on in the Naperville Yorkville Plainfield area are all conduit.
--
Some people are like Slinkies. Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jon

said by Jon:

You're not allowed to use Romex in IL. Everything has to be in conduit. It sucks. Someones family member probably owns a conduit factory.

Is it the whole of IL or just Chicago and suburbs?

I know Chicago also doesn't allow homeowners to do their own work.


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

I assumed all of IL. But according to chmod See Profile that's not the case. It is the case in Cook county though which is where I believe he's looking. And I lived in the city of Chicago for 10 years before moving out here and you can absolutely do your own work.


iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25

1 recommendation

reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Jon:

I'm sure it's safe. Just stating the fact that you can't use it here. Well, I suppose you can but you have to run it through conduit so it's kind of pointless.

Requiring conduit in a residential home is what's pointless. Either Romex is safe or it's not.

It was probably required before AFCI breakers were required. apparently, they are worried about a fire causing an electrical fire!.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by iknow:

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Jon:

I'm sure it's safe. Just stating the fact that you can't use it here. Well, I suppose you can but you have to run it through conduit so it's kind of pointless.

Requiring conduit in a residential home is what's pointless. Either Romex is safe or it's not.

It was probably required before AFCI breakers were required. apparently, they are worried about a fire causing an electrical fire!.

That doesn't answer the question. Either it's safe or it's not. The NEC deems it safe to use so there has to be another reason that "some" localities" ban it requiring conduit making an exception to the code.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1

NYC dosen't allow romex because supposedly rodents chew through and cause problems.

It depends on population density and preparedness. A house goes up in the sticks and that sucks. A structure catches fire in a major metropolitan center and look what happened in Chicago in 1871.
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--
The preceding posting is null and void in Arizona and any other jurisdiction where prohibited by law.



49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

Romex is fine and used everywhere the Unions have not colluded with local officials to ban it making work for them at extra expense for the builder and buyers. If Romex is not safe in IL then it's not safe anywhere.



Romex is crap and should not be allowed in any form of construction, it provides a zero level of protection against mechanical damage which is why after its was allowed by the NEC subsequent editions of the NEC had to upgraded to include supplemental requirements for the protection of Romex such as sleeves and nail/kick plates to compensate for the discovered shortcomings of the then recently permitted Romex.

For what it is worth down here and without Union influence Romex is banned in any form of construction excepting residential units under three floors and or with an occupancy of four families or less, everything else requires the running of conduit.

Now some electricians love Romex as do trunk slammers and DIY’ers simply because of its ease of installation and the minimal level of skill required to install it, whereas utilizing conduit requires a few more tools and a rudimentary level of math to properly calculate the bends which is beyond the skill level of a few, very few so called electricians.



.

Perhaps the NEC should not allow it.

It would be the right thing to do but one would never get it past those who lobbied to get into the code in the first place.

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 edit

said by 49528867:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Romex is fine and used everywhere the Unions have not colluded with local officials to ban it making work for them at extra expense for the builder and buyers. If Romex is not safe in IL then it's not safe anywhere.



Romex is crap and should not be allowed in any form of construction, it provides a zero level of protection against mechanical damage which is why after its was allowed by the NEC subsequent editions of the NEC had to upgraded to include supplemental requirements for the protection of Romex such as sleeves and nail/kick plates to compensate for the discovered shortcomings of the then recently permitted Romex.

For what it is worth down here and without Union influence Romex is banned in any form of construction excepting residential units under three floors and or with an occupancy of four families or less, everything else requires the running of conduit.

Now some electricians love Romex as do trunk slammers and DIY’ers simply because of its ease of installation and the minimal level of skill required to install it, whereas utilizing conduit requires a few more tools and a rudimentary level of math to properly calculate the bends which is beyond the skill level of a few, very few so called electricians.

[att=1]
.

Perhaps the NEC should not allow it.

It would be the right thing to do but one would never get it past those who lobbied to get into the code in the first place.

Wayne

Your "OPINION" is noted. However obviously it is not the majority opinion by the millions who safely install it and use it including regulatory authorities who approve its use except those influenced by other agendas.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1

it is safe, but other methods are safer.



49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

Requiring conduit in a residential home is what's pointless. Either Romex is safe or it's not.

In some cases conduit is required to be used with Romex, for example under the SFBC in CBS construction if Romex is to be run on the inner side of the exterior wall between the drywall and the blocks it must be run in conduit for full mechanical protection.

The reason for this is the Romex between the drywall and the bock has no where to move as such something as simple as a homeowner hanging a picture on the wall and piercing the Romex has happened to the point the SFBC was upgraded to take into account the shortcomings of Romex.

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


scott2020

join:2008-07-20
MO
reply to Hall

I used to live in Naperville and when I did my basement, it all had to be conduit. The entire house was that way. Seems like overkill but it did keep a group of electricians busy for a very long time.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

Naperville is all conduit. There are some Illinois communities that allow Romex. I'm pretty sure Batavia is one.
--
Stopping someone from saying another person is stupid doesn't make the stupid person no longer stupid.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to scott2020

said by scott2020:

I used to live in Naperville and when I did my basement, it all had to be conduit. The entire house was that way. Seems like overkill but it did keep a group of electricians busy for a very long time.

Which is exactly what the requirement is intended to do. Romex is safe in the vast majority of the country and unsafe in a handful that have other considerations which have nothing to do with safety.


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2

It would be interesting if an electrical job estimator (Whizkid, do you fit that ?) would weigh in, but I'll guess that a conduit job requires almost 2x the time as a straight Romex job.



mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

said by Hall:

It would be interesting if an electrical job estimator (Whizkid, do you fit that ?) would weigh in, but I'll guess that a conduit job requires almost 2x the time as a straight Romex job.

Actually I've been told the opposite. A local sparky here who does all types of work from residential to farm to commercial and industrial said that you have to factor in the savings of being able to pull multiple circuits all at one time, and the ease of load and circuit management that comes with conduit, not to mention future expandability.

He said a single large conduit run will of course replace multiple runs of romex, and all the associated stapling and drilling time that comes with it. So for him anyhow, it is faster, and he prefers it. Not sure how others look at it.


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2

You can pull multiple runs of Romex at the same time as well. Both use similar outlet/switch/junction boxes, so we'll call that equal as well.

Whether Romex or conduit, you have to drill holes for both scenarios. When that's done, you just pull Romex. With conduit, you have to "assemble" the runs (granted, one fitting and two screws attaches two pieces of conduit), measure and cut conduit, add in elbows and other bends, clamps, etc, etc. Then you have to pull the wiring.