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cheezmo

join:2001-11-19
Plano, TX

[TIVO] Here comes the copy protection bit (letter)

Received a letter today that CableCards must be paired with their receivers (Tivo, etc) in order to receive channels from some providers in the future. Going into effect July 31.

Sounds like the copy protection bit that prevents transfer from one Tivo to another or TivoToGo, etc. is on its way.


Grover8

join:2012-01-06
Fresh Meadows, NY

Would you kindly take a pic of that letter for us to read. Thanks.



nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:16
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Click for full size
download5112_HBO_LTR···v1r4.pdf 528,907 bytes
CableCARD Letter


wmcbrine
213 251 145 96

join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
kudos:1
reply to cheezmo

Well that sucks.

Fortunately the TiVos now have streaming, that circumvents the restriction, but only between Series 4's.



aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

2 edits
reply to cheezmo

I would have been pissed a few years ago when i used to archive alot more content from my TiVos. But now I only have three boxes (2 Elites and 1 regular Premiere) so I use streaming mostly and now very rarely transfer to TiVo Desktop or between boxes. When the streaming box is released in a few months I will be getting that too which will mean even more streaming.

My only issue now is that over the years I've moved my cable cards dozens of times on FiOS. At one time I had eight cable cards but now I'm down to three(and soon two). I know none of them are paired to the boxes they are used with. And the last time i tried to pair the cards i couldn't. Since the system was only setup to pair a new card that was sent to a user. If I would have thought about it I would have had the FiOS tech pair the cards when he was out last weekend replacing my ONT and BBU.

EDIT: I guess with the letter they sent they must have changed the system so now it won't be an issue to pair my cards.
Plus it sounds like only the Premium channels will be affected. So if I still downgrade TV to the Extreme tier(and upgrade internet to 75/35) it won't be likely to have have any effect on me anyway.


brutus

join:2003-12-16
Tampa, FL
reply to cheezmo

No letter here, but I will probably do like AaronWT and drop premiums if and when this happens.

I still archive and transfer since my one room has a TiVo HD with lifetime, but if the channels are going copy once it will be easier to just drop the channels that do and wait for Netflix copies.

EDIT: Looks like at least one of my TiVos aren't paired so I plan to wait and see what happens.



joe01880

join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA
reply to wmcbrine

said by wmcbrine:

Well that sucks.

Ditto


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY
reply to cheezmo

Would be great to have a list of channels this affects.

But it sounds like at least HBO is getting removed from my subscription.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to cheezmo

Sucks that they're starting to do this, but understandable. I'm sure HBO didn't like their content getting thrown all around.

But for the people that are saying they'll drop their premium services.. why? Is the only reason you subscribe to them to transfer the content back to your computer?
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!



09129800

join:2012-06-27
New York, NY

1 edit
reply to cheezmo

The sad thing about this is that this will do absolutely zilch to stop piracy. The only thing this will do is annoy legitimate HBO subscribers who liked having flexibility in their recorded content. HBO is trying to plug a single hole in a piece of swiss cheese.

The Internet piracy scene has various methods to bypass this copy protection so it won't affect them at all.



aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to cheezmo

I used the info on the posted PDF letter to pair my three cable cards tonight. At one point I had eight cable cards and over the last five years with FiOS I have moved my cards dozens of times between TiVos. The automated phone pairing process was quick and painless. In five minutes I had my three cards paired and my TiVos could all view channel 131.

In the 5.5 years I've been using cable cards, this was the quickest and least painful way I have ever had my cards paired. Between Comcast and FIOS it took either having a tech come out or being on a lengthy phone call to get the cards paired in the past.

This was a welcome surprise.


brutus

join:2003-12-16
Tampa, FL
reply to Thinkdiff

said by Thinkdiff:

But for the people that are saying they'll drop their premium services.. why? Is the only reason you subscribe to them to transfer the content back to your computer?

I only get Epix and Showtime since they are included in Ultimate, but if they go copy once I will drop my package down a notch.
I vote with my wallet. I don't support the copy once flag so I wouldn't choose to subscribe to a channel that uses it. What is the difference between recording a show in every room and recording one copy and then transferring it to every room?

In one of my rooms I only have a TiVo HD so I can't stream it from another room. Transferring to that room is the only option. Transferring to a computer is also something we use to create our own in home VOD service especially since we can't access VOD on our TiVos. Once we watch it, it gets deleted, but there is a good chance we won't get to it before it gets deleted for space on the TiVos. Usually by then it is also no longer in the guide to record again.

Also we use it to watch/listen the shows at work and when we travel. Streaming doesn't work since the Verizon coverage is barely 3G at the office, Pandora can't even stream smoothly, so we transfer to the PC and convert it to something that is easy to throw on the phone or tablet to take with us.


bull3964

@verizon.net
reply to cheezmo

You're free to vote with your wallet of course, just don't expect it to have ANY effect.

Annual revenue for cable card users in 3rd party devices probably amount to less than the rounding error in the quarterly financials for one of these networks. They simply aren't going to lose sleep over losing you as a subscriber.



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

said by bull3964 :

You're free to vote with your wallet of course, just don't expect it to have ANY effect.

Oh, it absolutely will. At the very least my bill will go down.

said by bull3964 :

Annual revenue for cable card users in 3rd party devices probably amount to less than the rounding error in the quarterly financials for one of these networks. They simply aren't going to lose sleep over losing you as a subscriber.

I really won't lose sleep over losing the channels either. If this is just HBO we're talking about they've only got A Game of Thrones which is interesting. Everything else they play are old worn out cheap movies.

And to respond to another poster - why would I unsubscribe? At least two reasons. 1) I can no longer transcode to another device and 2) the principle of it.

Simply, it's no longer a product that's worth the money to me.

brutus

join:2003-12-16
Tampa, FL
reply to bull3964

said by bull3964 :

You're free to vote with your wallet of course, just don't expect it to have ANY effect.

Annual revenue for cable card users in 3rd party devices probably amount to less than the rounding error in the quarterly financials for one of these networks. They simply aren't going to lose sleep over losing you as a subscriber.

I don't expect it to change anything on Verizon's end or the channel's end. Like nothing00 said though my bill will go down and give me more money to spend on other forms of entertainment.

It isn't really my goal though either since it won't make the movie channels run movies in their original aspect ratio. Since they don't run movies in their OAR, we don't use the movie channels to watch movies and instead only watch original content. We have gone from subscribing to all the movie channels to only getting the ones included in our bundle.

IanR

join:2001-03-22
Fort Mill, SC
reply to cheezmo

Anyone kow how this will effect me as I use a SiliconDust HomerunHD card reader in conjuction with WMC and XBoxes?

If it is likely interfere with my viewing etc I will have to evaluate the worth of staying with FIOS.

Also this seems at odds with the recently announced "smart glass" functionality from Microsoft.


sonofsmog

join:2003-09-09
Ontario, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by IanR:

Anyone kow how this will effect me as I use a SiliconDust HomerunHD card reader in conjuction with WMC and XBoxes?

If it is likely interfere with my viewing etc I will have to evaluate the worth of staying with FIOS.

Also this seems at odds with the recently announced "smart glass" functionality from Microsoft.

It's about moving the individual files around. Not streaming from one box to another. I two have windows media center boxes (three cablecards total) and though I won't be able to watch one boxes recorded TV on the other box IF THE COPY PROTECTION BIT IS ACTIVE (and from what I have heard from other cable subscribers it isn't often) you can still use whatever extenders like Xbox you use to stream. Myself I could care since I just bittorrent or usenet anything I want to be portable.


Onedollar

join:2001-08-27
Pomona, CA
kudos:6

Hrmm does this affect copying from one local hard drive to another hard drive on the same machine? I am in process of getting robocopy setup properly so I can move files from small internal to big external.


sonofsmog

join:2003-09-09
Ontario, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by Onedollar:

Hrmm does this affect copying from one local hard drive to another hard drive on the same machine? I am in process of getting robocopy setup properly so I can move files from small internal to big external.

No.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to sonofsmog

The copy bit will do a few things:

1. WMC - When they implement copy bit, you will NOT be able to watch a W7MC share from a PC anymore for channels with that bit, nor from WMC to WMC. The only allowed method will be an extender (xbox) tied to a SPECIFIC WMC instance.
2. Shows you could watch on apps on the PC or tablet will no longer work unless Verizon issues a DRM'd version of the app, and we all know how sucky Verizon software is.
3. Cablecards will be enforced for pairing. You will not be able to swap CC around, and if you do you will need to reactivate them--otherwise channels w/ copy bit will not be viewable.

In general DRM sucks and it just makes viewing the content you paid for more difficult.



aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

You will still be able to swap cable cards around. They will just need to be re-paired. And with the automated pairing process over the telephone, it is a very quick process.


DGGSLF

join:2007-04-14
Lynn, MA

So I got my letter today and the In Home Agent option did not work for my two CableCARD enabled TVs, so I tried the number in the letter. After entering the host ID for the first TV, it routed me to an agent.

After a half hour trying to pair the TVs to the S-Cards, he gave up and is sending me two new cards. He did say everthing looks fine in his back end system, so he's not sure what the problem is. His quality manger could not help either.

The cards I currently have are 4 or 5 years old and have worked fine after the initial two weeks it took them to get it right. The only channel that does not come through is the barker channel on 131, which I guess has the copy bit enabled. It seems like I'll be in a world of hurt after July 31st, if I'm still unsuccessful with pairing the TVs to the new card. I wonder what options Verizon will provide if nothing works?

Will provide an update tomorrow when the new cards arrive.


IanR

join:2001-03-22
Fort Mill, SC
reply to cheezmo

So the quesion I have is: What is the benefit that Verizon gains from making life potentially more restrictive and sometimes annoying to it's customer base?
Are Verizon customers bootlegging shows and they are attempting to stop this to gain favor with the program owners? I can't think of any other reason.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

said by IanR:

So the quesion I have is: What is the benefit that Verizon gains from making life potentially more restrictive and sometimes annoying to it's customer base?

They get to keep HBO.

I'm sure HBO could find some way to give Verizon hell based on the fact that they're not using industry standard methods to protect their content properly.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Onedollar

join:2001-08-27
Pomona, CA
kudos:6

1 recommendation

reply to cheezmo

And most likely part of the contract agreement between vz and content provider to enforce certain rules like DRM



bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2
reply to Thinkdiff

So is the Copy Once bit just going to be applied to Premium Channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore TMC ?

Or is it going to be on all Channels ?



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

said by bigdaddy:

So is the Copy Once bit just going to be applied to Premium Channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore TMC ?

Or is it going to be on all Channels?

That's the fun thing. Verizon isn't saying what it's doing.

And, true to form in lack of lack of meaningful communication, their letter doesn't provide a useful number to call. Of course, calling them was never really useful in the first place. They'd just transfer you around until you were either accidentally hung up on or gave up.

Grover8

join:2012-01-06
Fresh Meadows, NY
reply to cheezmo

I got the letter today and called to activate my cetons once again. Now channel 131 says copying prohibited. Goodbye HBO and Cinemax. I'll be seeing you on the flip side.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to bigdaddy

said by bigdaddy:

So is the Copy Once bit just going to be applied to Premium Channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore TMC ?

Or is it going to be on all Channels ?

I don't think anybody knows the answer to that right now (at least anybody that will tell us), but judging from the wording of the Verizon letter and the name of the file nycdave posted, seems like this is directed at HBO (and other premiums). Hopefully they don't go the Time Warner route.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4

said by Thinkdiff:

said by bigdaddy:

So is the Copy Once bit just going to be applied to Premium Channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore TMC ?

Or is it going to be on all Channels ?

I don't think anybody knows the answer to that right now (at least anybody that will tell us), but judging from the wording of the Verizon letter and the name of the file nycdave posted, seems like this is directed at HBO (and other premiums). Hopefully they don't go the Time Warner route.

We can also look to what other providers have done as a clue. DirecTV just recently implemented the same thing on a handful of their premium channels (including HBO). My guess - they're doing this due to contractural obligation. HBO wants it, and has made it part of the deal. That's the senes I'm getting. Sort of like ABC pushing them to disasble FFWD on their VOD feeds.