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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to elefante72

Re: [TIVO] Here comes the copy protection bit (letter)

You will still be able to swap cable cards around. They will just need to be re-paired. And with the automated pairing process over the telephone, it is a very quick process.


DGGSLF

join:2007-04-14
Lynn, MA

So I got my letter today and the In Home Agent option did not work for my two CableCARD enabled TVs, so I tried the number in the letter. After entering the host ID for the first TV, it routed me to an agent.

After a half hour trying to pair the TVs to the S-Cards, he gave up and is sending me two new cards. He did say everthing looks fine in his back end system, so he's not sure what the problem is. His quality manger could not help either.

The cards I currently have are 4 or 5 years old and have worked fine after the initial two weeks it took them to get it right. The only channel that does not come through is the barker channel on 131, which I guess has the copy bit enabled. It seems like I'll be in a world of hurt after July 31st, if I'm still unsuccessful with pairing the TVs to the new card. I wonder what options Verizon will provide if nothing works?

Will provide an update tomorrow when the new cards arrive.


IanR

join:2001-03-22
Fort Mill, SC
reply to cheezmo

So the quesion I have is: What is the benefit that Verizon gains from making life potentially more restrictive and sometimes annoying to it's customer base?
Are Verizon customers bootlegging shows and they are attempting to stop this to gain favor with the program owners? I can't think of any other reason.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

said by IanR:

So the quesion I have is: What is the benefit that Verizon gains from making life potentially more restrictive and sometimes annoying to it's customer base?

They get to keep HBO.

I'm sure HBO could find some way to give Verizon hell based on the fact that they're not using industry standard methods to protect their content properly.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Onedollar

join:2001-08-27
Pomona, CA
kudos:6

1 recommendation

reply to cheezmo

And most likely part of the contract agreement between vz and content provider to enforce certain rules like DRM



bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2
reply to Thinkdiff

So is the Copy Once bit just going to be applied to Premium Channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore TMC ?

Or is it going to be on all Channels ?



nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

said by bigdaddy:

So is the Copy Once bit just going to be applied to Premium Channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore TMC ?

Or is it going to be on all Channels?

That's the fun thing. Verizon isn't saying what it's doing.

And, true to form in lack of lack of meaningful communication, their letter doesn't provide a useful number to call. Of course, calling them was never really useful in the first place. They'd just transfer you around until you were either accidentally hung up on or gave up.

Grover8

join:2012-01-06
Fresh Meadows, NY
reply to cheezmo

I got the letter today and called to activate my cetons once again. Now channel 131 says copying prohibited. Goodbye HBO and Cinemax. I'll be seeing you on the flip side.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to bigdaddy

said by bigdaddy:

So is the Copy Once bit just going to be applied to Premium Channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore TMC ?

Or is it going to be on all Channels ?

I don't think anybody knows the answer to that right now (at least anybody that will tell us), but judging from the wording of the Verizon letter and the name of the file nycdave posted, seems like this is directed at HBO (and other premiums). Hopefully they don't go the Time Warner route.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

JPL
Premium
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4

said by Thinkdiff:

said by bigdaddy:

So is the Copy Once bit just going to be applied to Premium Channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore TMC ?

Or is it going to be on all Channels ?

I don't think anybody knows the answer to that right now (at least anybody that will tell us), but judging from the wording of the Verizon letter and the name of the file nycdave posted, seems like this is directed at HBO (and other premiums). Hopefully they don't go the Time Warner route.

We can also look to what other providers have done as a clue. DirecTV just recently implemented the same thing on a handful of their premium channels (including HBO). My guess - they're doing this due to contractural obligation. HBO wants it, and has made it part of the deal. That's the senes I'm getting. Sort of like ABC pushing them to disasble FFWD on their VOD feeds.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to cheezmo

If there are any channels that should be copy protected it is the Premium channels. FiOS was always lax on this. While some of the other providers went to the extreme in the other direction and copy protected all channels. The answer lies somewhere in the middle. I don't archive content like I used to, and I rarely transfer anything either. I just stream it between boxes now so it's not a big deal. But if I still had the old Series 3 TiVos it would be a problem since those boxes can't stream between each other.



dosdoxies
Premium
join:2004-12-15
Wallingford, PA
reply to cheezmo

I got the letter yesterday and when I checked channel 131, I saw my cablecard stats, no content like I do no my Fios 7216. So I copy the numbers and called the activation service, punch in the cable card ID number and it says I'm already activated, goodbye. I'll try anything once but I"m not going to waste my time on this. I'll just wait and see what happens on July 31. I don't have any premium channels anyway.



HenryFarpolo
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA

said by dosdoxies:

I got the letter yesterday and when I checked channel 131, I saw my cablecard stats, no content like I do no my Fios 7216. So I copy the numbers and called the activation service, punch in the cable card ID number and it says I'm already activated, goodbye. I'll try anything once but I"m not going to waste my time on this. I'll just wait and see what happens on July 31. I don't have any premium channels anyway.

What you have proven is that the card is activated. That does not mean the card is paired to the TIVO receiver. If you don't have premium channels you should have no issues.


nothing00

join:2001-06-10
Centereach, NY

said by HenryFarpolo:

What you have proven is that the card is activated. That does not mean the card is paired to the TIVO receiver. If you don't have premium channels you should have no issues.

Unfortunately we don't know that for sure. For all we know at this point Verizon might lock down everything but OTA retransmission.

I don't think that's the case... but...


dosdoxies
Premium
join:2004-12-15
Wallingford, PA
reply to HenryFarpolo

said by HenryFarpolo:

said by dosdoxies:

I got the letter yesterday and when I checked channel 131, I saw my cablecard stats, no content like I do no my Fios 7216. So I copy the numbers and called the activation service, punch in the cable card ID number and it says I'm already activated, goodbye. I'll try anything once but I"m not going to waste my time on this. I'll just wait and see what happens on July 31. I don't have any premium channels anyway.

What you have proven is that the card is activated. That does not mean the card is paired to the TIVO receiver. If you don't have premium channels you should have no issues.

But I wasn't given the option of supplying any more numbers to pair the card.


Jay_Are
J.R.
Premium
join:2004-04-10
Sicklerville, NJ
reply to elefante72

said by elefante72:

The copy bit will do a few things:

1. WMC - When they implement copy bit, you will NOT be able to watch a W7MC share from a PC anymore for channels with that bit, nor from WMC to WMC. The only allowed method will be an extender (xbox) tied to a SPECIFIC WMC instance.

Streaming to an Xbox extender is allowed but not streaming a recorded content from a WMC to another WMC? The changes won't affect me much since I don't subscribed to premium channels. But this current implementation doesn't make any sense to me.
--
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

Just like elefante72 said, each WMC is a separate entity with its own encryption key. A WMC extender is a special device which allows you to connect to a particular WMC host. They use the same keys to decrypt the content. You cannot share copy-once content between different WMC hosts as each will have its own set of keys.

There are applications you can run on another computer (WMC or otherwise) to effectively turn it into a WMC Extender.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!



HenryFarpolo
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA
reply to dosdoxies

said by dosdoxies:

said by HenryFarpolo:

said by dosdoxies:

I got the letter yesterday and when I checked channel 131, I saw my cablecard stats, no content like I do no my Fios 7216. So I copy the numbers and called the activation service, punch in the cable card ID number and it says I'm already activated, goodbye. I'll try anything once but I"m not going to waste my time on this. I'll just wait and see what happens on July 31. I don't have any premium channels anyway.

What you have proven is that the card is activated. That does not mean the card is paired to the TIVO receiver. If you don't have premium channels you should have no issues.

But I wasn't given the option of supplying any more numbers to pair the card.

You need to call tech support and work with a technician to get the pairing completed. The process will be fast or slow depending on the technician. Don't end the call until you get content on ch 131.

Shady Bimmer
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Northport, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to bigdaddy

said by bigdaddy:

So is the Copy Once bit just going to be applied to Premium Channels, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz, Encore TMC ?

Or is it going to be on all Channels ?

Theoretically, the content owner (such as the copyright holder) determines the digital copy protection and it is to be kept intact and unmodified to the end device. Providers such as FiOS should neither remove nor change the copy protection indication.

In reality, FiOS has been one of the very few that have largely ignored these but are finally now being pressured to come into compliance. Typically non-premium would be copy-freely, premium subscriptions would be copy-once, and PPV/VOD would be copy-never.

A side effect is that devices that have not been certified would not be able to complete the required encryption exchange and so would no longer be able to either view or record programming that is not copy-freely. Those that have been able to use a Mac with an HDHomeRun Prime, for instance, will no longer be able to do so.

This will not prevent anyone from using a CC DVR, be it a Tivo, WMC with HDHR or Ceton, or a native FiOS unit. It will just prevent them from making multiple copies.

There are many long-running discussions over digital copy protection, programming, MSOs, rights, and the like over at AVS Forum dating back over the years. We've been very lucky with FiOS.

Grover8

join:2012-01-06
Fresh Meadows, NY
reply to HenryFarpolo

That's for Tivo but what should I see on WMC with Ceton?

I had a "subscription required" message before then they activated and now i see "copying prohibited" / sometimes activation required.

This whole thing is screwed up.

Channel 131 should be some random FiOS info channel right?



dosdoxies
Premium
join:2004-12-15
Wallingford, PA
reply to HenryFarpolo

said by HenryFarpolo:

You need to call tech support and work with a technician to get the pairing completed. The process will be fast or slow depending on the technician. Don't end the call until you get content on ch 131.

Figured it out. After they tell you your card is already activated, you then say "reactivate". (They don't tell you that in the letter.) After that it was only a few minutes until I had content on channel 131. Hopes this helps someone else.

thorhtpc

join:2012-05-10
Redondo Beach, CA

1 edit
reply to cheezmo

Is channel 131 flagged as 'copy protected'? Can anyone see which bits are set.

I checked the bits on the channel this morning and they were 0x00, which is copy freely. So how are they using this channel to check if your card is paired?



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

Click for full size
Click for full size
It's 0x02 here.


icemannyr1

join:2001-04-11
Township Of Washington, NJ

Ch. 131 os CCI: 0X02 on VH07.



bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2
reply to nothing00

Good News

Attention All Verizon FiOS TV Customers !

The 0x02 - Copy Once Byte is Only Being Applied to HBO and Cinemax !

The Rest of the FiOS TV Channels will Remain 0x00 - Copy freely.

This Information was provided by a Verizon Plus Store Representative from an internal Memo.

Enjoy !


Grover8

join:2012-01-06
Fresh Meadows, NY

Thank you so much.

So basically HBO and Cinemax will look


when July 31th comes.
All scrambled. Can't watch on other devices or edit/export. This will stop piracy. Thank you Verizon.

thorhtpc

join:2012-05-10
Redondo Beach, CA
reply to icemannyr1

Re: [TIVO] Here comes the copy protection bit (letter)

That's strange. I will check again tonight.

Can we see a scan of that internal memo. Not that I doubt you personally, but past experience makes me wary.



julesism

join:2001-12-12
Lewisville, TX
reply to bigdaddy

Re: Good News

(assuming this is correct) whew!



bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2
reply to thorhtpc

Re: [TIVO] Here comes the copy protection bit (letter)

said by thorhtpc:

That's strange. I will check again tonight.

Can we see a scan of that internal memo. Not that I doubt you personally, but past experience makes me wary.

I Will try and see if the Agent will E-Mail it to me.

PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:2
reply to Grover8

Re: Good News

said by Grover8:

Thank you so much.

So basically HBO and Cinemax will look [att=1] when July 31th comes.
All scrambled. Can't watch on other devices or edit/export. This will stop piracy. Thank you Verizon.

Don't blame Verizon -- the content providers are requiring this.