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HenryFarpolo
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA
reply to knarf829

Re: [TIVO] Here comes the copy protection bit (letter)

said by knarf829:

said by Thinkdiff:

Even with Series3 TiVos, there are ways to make this a non-issue.

I've got a Series3 TiVo. Link?

+1


joe01880

join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA
reply to Thinkdiff

said by Thinkdiff:

said by joe01880:

I dont record anything of importance this time of year anyway and my 7232 sucks but will do the job if need be.

The FiOS DVRs will have the same copy restrictions as the TiVo. You can still record HBO content on a TiVo. You can still stream it to other TiVos. You just can't copy it.

Unless you have Series3 TiVos (doesn't support streaming) or archive your shows to your computer, this won't even effect you. Even with Series3 TiVos, there are ways to make this a non-issue.

I have Tivo HD w/lifetime and a Premiere, i am also aware of options to make this a non issue which i am considering for my S3THD. I may just sell it to cover some of the cost of new unit. If this doesn't effect HDNET or Palladia it wont matter to me anyway but I'm sure its going to.


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ
reply to JPL

said by JPL:

We can also look to what other providers have done as a clue. DirecTV just recently implemented the same thing on a handful of their premium channels (including HBO). My guess - they're doing this due to contractural obligation. HBO wants it, and has made it part of the deal. That's the senes I'm getting. Sort of like ABC pushing them to disasble FFWD on their VOD feeds.

U hit the nail on the head 100%....FIOS is just following its contractual obligations..


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ
reply to dosdoxies

said by dosdoxies:

I don't have any premium channels anyway.

That made me chuckle as this entire thread is about CCI protection for premium channels.....


dosdoxies
Premium
join:2004-12-15
Wallingford, PA

said by bohratom:

said by dosdoxies:

I don't have any premium channels anyway.

That made me chuckle as this entire thread is about CCI protection for premium channels.....

But if I didn't do it, I might not get the premium channels when they have the free preview weekends. Only reason i did it.


wizziwig

@verizon.net
reply to bohratom

said by bohratom:

U hit the nail on the head 100%....FIOS is just following its contractual obligations..

So the fact that FIOS can now rent more STB's at $16.99+ is just a bonus for them? This change sucks for those who use older cable-card Tivo's or run non-windows HTPC's. Most will now have to cancel the premium channels (my choice) or pay monthly for more FIOS equipment.


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ

1 edit

said by wizziwig :

This change sucks for those who use older cable-card Tivo's or run non-windows HTPC's. Most will now have to cancel the premium channels (my choice) or pay monthly for more FIOS equipment.

I agree with your outrage as I also have it. Only point I was trying to make is the networks are responsible for the CCI change.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to wizziwig

FiOS DVRs have the same restrictions, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. You have plenty of choices if you want to view recorded premium channels on other TVs (TiVo Series4 and WMC Extenders, to name two)
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!



icemannyr1

join:2001-04-11
Township Of Washington, NJ

All the Turner cable channels already are set to Copy Once so it's not surprising they are doing the same to the TimeWarer HBO and Cinemax channels.



wmcbrine
213 251 145 96

join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
kudos:1

said by icemannyr1:

All the Turner cable channels already are set to Copy Once

Uh, no they aren't.
--
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to wizziwig

said by wizziwig :

said by bohratom:

U hit the nail on the head 100%....FIOS is just following its contractual obligations..

So the fact that FIOS can now rent more STB's at $16.99+ is just a bonus for them? This change sucks for those who use older cable-card Tivo's or run non-windows HTPC's. Most will now have to cancel the premium channels (my choice) or pay monthly for more FIOS equipment.

WHy? If you have a TiVo you just pair the cable cards. WIth the newer TiVos that came out in 2010 you can stream between them even those copy protected shows. You just can't transfer them. And the FiOS DVRs give you less features. So this happening certainly should not make anyone get a FIOS DVR. There is no reason to get a FiOS DVR because of this.


rantanamo

@verizon.net
reply to Thinkdiff

said by Thinkdiff:

FiOS DVRs have the same restrictions, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. You have plenty of choices if you want to view recorded premium channels on other TVs (TiVo Series4 and WMC Extenders, to name two)

Streaming to extenders = keep content in the home. I'm sure the mobile streaming stuff will end up cut off because of this. People always say, what's wrong with this country. I say, innovation seizing activity like this is clue number 1. All of this would be naught if the gov would keep data out of the hands of video providers. They are killing potential revenues just because of their need to control what's coming down the pipe, even after it has already arrived at its destination.


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

Slingbox (or the other alternatives) will still work.

HBO's concern is that you can now make exact, 1:1 digital copies of their content. On FiOS, the signal (presumably) isn't even recompressed. I tend to agree with them in protecting their content. Unfortunately, the only thing setting the CCI byte does is annoy a few normal users. The pirates will always find a way around it.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

Expand your moderator at work


09129800

join:2012-06-27
New York, NY
reply to Thinkdiff

Re: [TIVO] Here comes the copy protection bit (letter)

HBO appears to be grossly overestimating just how much pirates care about quality.

99% of pirates will grab the shitty 720p scene re-encode with a bitrate of 3 Mbps over the full 12 Mbps 1080i MPEG-2 transport stream.

Why they will grab these terrible quality x264 versions is a combination of bandwidth caps, impatience, and ignorance.

But the point is, HBO is not going to convince any pirate to start ponying up the cash for cable and their channel just because they can no longer grab the 1080i MPEG-2 transport stream. Very few pirates are grabbing that version anyway. This will not stop the scene's 720p x264 versions of every HBO show getting released promptly, as I have no doubt that the scene has probably cracked CableCARD tuners in private to trick the tuner into thinking the signals it is receiving has the copy flag set to copy freely. Either that or they'll just do a x264 re-encode from component or HDMI capture, it really doesn't matter. A way around will be found.

So HBO is just annoying their legitimate subscribers who use CableCARD products with this move.


DGGSLF

join:2007-04-14
Lynn, MA
reply to DGGSLF

So here is my update:

Tech support sent me two S-Cards to replace the two I've had for 4 years+. The good news is that they both activated quite easily via the activation web page. The bad news is that I still cannot view the content of channel 131 on either TV.

I'm not having a good feeling about this but I guess I'll have to call back in to tech support to see if they can make these TVs pair with the replacement cards. The TVs are from 2004 and 2005 respectively, so fairly old for technology.



dosdoxies
Premium
join:2004-12-15
Wallingford, PA

said by DGGSLF:

So here is my update:

Tech support sent me two S-Cards to replace the two I've had for 4 years+.

I didn't think Verizon had any S cards anymore.

knordrw

join:2007-09-07
Bethel Park, PA
kudos:1
reply to DGGSLF

It's possible the TVs don't support Simulcrypt, which would be in use in your VHO, as it is a dual Motorola/Cisco area. Although in the past when I've seen something like that, no channels at all come in above 50 on a device that doesn't support Simulcrypt. I am assuming you are getting the pairing screen on ch 131, right?


DGGSLF

join:2007-04-14
Lynn, MA
reply to dosdoxies

Yes. Looks like these are used or refurbished cards. The way they were packaged, you could tell they were not new.



icemannyr1

join:2001-04-11
Township Of Washington, NJ
reply to wmcbrine

said by wmcbrine:

said by icemannyr1:

All the Turner cable channels already are set to Copy Once

Uh, no they aren't.

Which Turner HD channel are not?
On VHO7 CNN, TBS and TNT are 0x02 - Copy Once.

DGGSLF

join:2007-04-14
Lynn, MA
reply to knordrw

Yes. Whenever I tune to channel 131, I get the screen that the letter indicates I should get, i.e. the screen with CableCARD ID, host ID and Data ID, along with the customer support number to call.

I believe NYC Dave mentioned something about that in a Simulcrypt thread about a year ago. I certainly dont want to pay for two more boxes, so I hope they can fix this.



wmcbrine
213 251 145 96

join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
kudos:1
reply to icemannyr1

said by icemannyr1:

Which Turner HD channel are not?
On VHO7 CNN, TBS and TNT are 0x02 - Copy Once.

None of them are, here.

Are you checking on a TiVo?
--
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0


icemannyr1

join:2001-04-11
Township Of Washington, NJ

said by wmcbrine:

said by icemannyr1:

Which Turner HD channel are not?
On VHO7 CNN, TBS and TNT are 0x02 - Copy Once.

None of them are, here.

Are you checking on a TiVo?

I'm checking on the channels on the FiOS STB Menu and CCI for those channels is 0x02 on VHO7.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

said by icemannyr1:

said by wmcbrine:

said by icemannyr1:

Which Turner HD channel are not?
On VHO7 CNN, TBS and TNT are 0x02 - Copy Once.

None of them are, here.

Are you checking on a TiVo?

I'm checking on the channels on the FiOS STB Menu and CCI for those channels is 0x02 on VHO7.

I thought someone had mentioned in another thread that there is a difference between what the TiVo shows and what the FiOS STB shows.

But can you even transfer content from the FiOS STB like you can with TiVos? If not then it really doesn't matter.


icemannyr1

join:2001-04-11
Township Of Washington, NJ

You can't transfer the FiOS DVR recordings as files.
If the recording is from a channel set to copy freely you can play back and record it on your computer via firewire.



aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

said by icemannyr1:

You can't transfer the FiOS DVR recordings as files.
If the recording is from a channel set to copy freely you can play back and record it on your computer via firewire.

Firewire? That brings back some memories. I haven't used that with transferring content in over half a dozen years at least.


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ

said by aaronwt:

Firewire? That brings back some memories. I haven't used that with transferring content in over half a dozen years at least.

I use it here in VHO7 to archive important recordings but seems most of the good channels are migrating to Copy-once which will make it useless soon.


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ
reply to aaronwt

said by aaronwt:

I thought someone had mentioned in another thread that there is a difference between what the TiVo shows and what the FiOS STB shows.

That is correct, many channels which my FIOS stb shows as copy-once are copy-freely when viewed with a cablecard device.

DGGSLF

join:2007-04-14
Lynn, MA

Well, I spent another hour with Tech support on Tuesday, trying to make both my TVs pair with the new CableCARD they sent me.

The Tech's final comment was: "I don't think you'll have a problem on July 31st, since you're now getting all of your subscribed channels". My feedback was that the letter said if I can not tune channel 131, then I have a problem. He disagreed and said all of the techs he has talked to in his office also disagreed with my interpretation.

I also mentioned the potential for a simulcrypt issue in my VHO 6 but he thought that was a non issue (though I'm not sure he knew what simulcrypt was). I guess at this point and after three calls to tech support and being sent new CableCARDS, all I can do now is wait till the end of the month and see what happens. :-(



aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

said by DGGSLF:

Well, I spent another hour with Tech support on Tuesday, trying to make both my TVs pair with the new CableCARD they sent me.

The Tech's final comment was: "I don't think you'll have a problem on July 31st, since you're now getting all of your subscribed channels". My feedback was that the letter said if I can not tune channel 131, then I have a problem. He disagreed and said all of the techs he has talked to in his office also disagreed with my interpretation.

................

How could they interpret it another way?