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headbite
join:2012-06-27
Sacramento, CA

headbite

Member

Switching to business class Motorola SBG6580 as router?

I purchased a sbg6580 around a year ago for residential use and it's worked fine. I'm in the process of switching over to business class with 5 static ip's.

Can I use the sbg6580 as a router or should I just pick up something from the list.

»mydeviceinfo.comcast.net ··· egateway

This will be my first time dealing with static ip's so I expect a few bumps along the way. I'll probably wait till after the install to pick up another router if needed.

Just to be clear I would not be trying to use the sbg6580 as a modem.

Thanks for any info on my situitation.

trythisfirst
@comcast.net

trythisfirst

Anon

No it doesn't have a WAN port, so you could not use it as a stand alone router. Not only that you must use the Comcast supplied smc business gateway for static ip's, there are zero exceptions to this once statics are involved. So that list of home gateways is out, if you don't want to use the hard wired ports on the smc you will need a plain old wireless router to run from the smc.

lacibaci
join:2000-04-10
Export, PA

lacibaci to headbite

Member

to headbite
For static IPs, Comcast will give you SMCD3G gateway. I just had it installed - mine is in bridge mode and everything is handled by router/firewall behind it.
headbite
join:2012-06-27
Sacramento, CA

headbite

Member

Thanks for the fast response. Looks like the SMCD3G gateway has a few ports in the back I can use. I was really expecting just a single plug.

The install is happening tomorrow morning. I can't complain about things moving faster then expected.

I'm going to need wifi so I'll start looking around for a router to put behind the smc.

Thanks for all the info.
medbuyer
join:2003-11-20
Memphis, TN

medbuyer to headbite

Member

to headbite
why not an access point behind the SMC?

or a wireless router acting as an ap...

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

NetFixer to lacibaci

Premium Member

to lacibaci
said by lacibaci:

For static IPs, Comcast will give you SMCD3G gateway. I just had it installed - mine is in bridge mode and everything is handled by router/firewall behind it.

Are you saying that Comcast actually provided you with a static IP account and loaded their RIP key on your router instead of the SMCD3G?

I have never heard of that happening before. Perhaps you don't understand what "bridge mode" means? Using the True Static IP setup in the SMDD3G-CCR is not "bridge mode", it is just using the SMCD3G as a router without using NAT.

If your SMCD3G is actually in bridge mode, and Comcast has actually loaded their RIP key into your own router, what kind of router are you using, and what did you have to do to get Comcast to do that?

lacibaci
join:2000-04-10
Export, PA
Technicolor CGA4131
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter ERPro8
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO

lacibaci

Member

I guess I used "bridge mode" loosely Yes, it is "True Static IP" where all client DHCP and firewall functions are disabled on SMC. All traffic flows directly to my router/firewall. Sorry for the confusion.

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

NetFixer

Premium Member

said by lacibaci:

I guess I used "bridge mode" loosely Yes, it is "True Static IP" where all client DHCP and firewall functions are disabled on SMC. All traffic flows directly to my router/firewall. Sorry for the confusion.

Oh well...

I was actually kind of hoping that Comcast had relented on their SMCD3G only policy for static IP addresses, and would allow a standard cable modem in front of a real router (that could also alleviate Comcast's current dilemma with getting IPv6 working on the SMCD3G).
headbite
join:2012-06-27
Sacramento, CA

headbite

Member

Alright so after the install I have a SMC8014WG-CCR from comcast and picked up a netgear n600. My local store didn't have any d-links and this looked like it should do the job.

I'm having a little trouble getting things figured out. I have 5 static ip's. Let's say the statics are x.x.x.1-5 and the gateway is on x.x.x.6.

My router wan only let's me put in one ip. Is it possible to get all 5 static ip's avaliable on my router?

I need the router for the wifi. So that only leaves me with 3 open jacks on the SMC. Do I need to grab a switch to give myself enough jacks to use the other 4 ip's?

Thanks for any pointers.

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

NetFixer

Premium Member

said by headbite:

Alright so after the install I have a SMC8014WG-CCR from comcast and picked up a netgear n600. My local store didn't have any d-links and this looked like it should do the job.

I'm having a little trouble getting things figured out. I have 5 static ip's. Let's say the statics are x.x.x.1-5 and the gateway is on x.x.x.6.

My router wan only let's me put in one ip. Is it possible to get all 5 static ip's avaliable on my router?

I need the router for the wifi. So that only leaves me with 3 open jacks on the SMC. Do I need to grab a switch to give myself enough jacks to use the other 4 ip's?

Thanks for any pointers.

The attached router only needs to have one WAN IP address, but it will need a real DMZ interface (where would connect your servers) in order to be able to both do NAT for non servers, and pass public static IP addresses to the SMC gateway. Unfortunately, I don't think that the Netgear N600 can do that.

So, to avoid buying a new router, you can use a switch to attach your servers directly to the SMC's LAN. That is what I currently do. In effect, the SMD's LAN interface then becomes a DMZ (do not confuse this with the pseudo software DMZ setting in the SMC gateway....that is a NAT connection, not a true DMZ).

Here is a diagram of my network to illustrate that:




The TP-WR1043ND acts like a layer 2 switch, so currently I have a Netgear router, and two servers using True Static IP addresses, and two unused static IP addresses (with places to connect additional static IP devices if needed). I used to use an older model Cisco RV082 which did have a hardware DMZ interface, but it does not support IPv6, so I retired it.
headbite
join:2012-06-27
Sacramento, CA

headbite

Member

Click for full size
DMZ
The DMZ on this router seems to work. 192.168.1.10 is my web server. Right now all the sites are on the same IP. I'll see if I can switch one of them over tomorrow.

I was chasing my own tale over name server issues all day today.

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

1 edit

NetFixer

Premium Member

said by headbite:

The DMZ on this router seems to work. 192.168.1.10 is my web server. Right now all the sites are on the same IP. I'll see if I can switch one of them over tomorrow.

I was chasing my own tale over name server issues all day today.

That is not a hardware DMZ, it is a pseudo software DMZ that requires you to use a private IP address for a single server and do NAT through that router (and it can only do this for one IP address). It is no different than the pseudo DMZ on the SMC gateway. A true DMZ interface will allow you to use True Static IP addresses for your servers (as many as you have IP addresses for) instead of going through NAT.

Shown below is the pseudo DMZ in the SMC gateway. If I were to assign that pseudo DMZ to my Vonage router's WAN (as shown in the image), the Vonage router would still be behind the SMC gateway's NAT, it would not truly be using a public static IP address.




My Netgear router also has a pseudo software DMZ setting, but if I were to save the setting shown below, that server would be using the private 192.168.9.100 IP address and going through the Netgear's NAT, if would not truly be using the Netgear router's public WAN IP address




To illustrate what I am saying, I temporarily saved the DMZ setting above and did a traceroute to my.yahoo.com. You can see that the path still goes through the Netgear's NAT:


C:\>tracert my.yahoo.com
 
Tracing route to ds-any-ycpi-uno.aycpi.b.yahoodns.net [98.136.145.155]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  ap2.dcs-net [192.168.9.10]
  2     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  host6.dcs-net.net [75.146.8.46]
  3    36 ms    19 ms    39 ms  96.191.160.1
  4    10 ms     9 ms    10 ms  xe-4-0-0-0-sur02.murfreesboro.tn.nash.comcast.net [68.85.50.129]
  5    12 ms    11 ms    11 ms  xe-2-1-1-0-ar01.goodslettvll.tn.nash.comcast.net [68.86.176.53]
  6    11 ms    35 ms    13 ms  ae-3-0-ar03.nashville.tn.nash.comcast.net [68.86.148.70]
  7    27 ms    26 ms    24 ms  pos-2-15-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.90.73]
  8    29 ms    28 ms    26 ms  pos-1-4-0-0-cr01.chicago.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.88.33]
  9    26 ms    25 ms    24 ms  xe-9-2-0.edge1.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.71.248.25]
 10    25 ms    26 ms    25 ms  4.69.158.230
 11    45 ms    45 ms    44 ms  ae-6-6.ebr2.Washington12.Level3.net [4.69.148.145]
 12    45 ms    45 ms    46 ms  ae-5-5.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.143.221]
 13    49 ms    49 ms    49 ms  ae-62-62.csw1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.134.146]
 14    47 ms    45 ms    45 ms  ae-11-60.car1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.149.3]
 15    44 ms    60 ms    45 ms  YAHOO-INC.car1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.79.228.2]
 16    46 ms    45 ms    43 ms  xe-7-0-0.msr2.ac2.yahoo.com [216.115.108.129]
 17    82 ms    46 ms    45 ms  xe-2-2-0.clr3.ac4.yahoo.com [72.30.96.1]
 18    46 ms    45 ms    46 ms  et-17-1.fab1-1-gdc.ac4.yahoo.com [66.218.79.1]
 19    52 ms    46 ms    53 ms  po-11.bas2-3-prd.ac4.yahoo.com [66.218.79.43]
 20    47 ms    46 ms    47 ms  r4.ycpi.vip.ac4.yahoo.net [98.136.145.155]
 
Trace complete.
 
 


Next, I undid the DMZ setting, and as you can see there is no difference (except for Yahoo's load balancing):


C:\>tracert my.yahoo.com
 
Tracing route to ds-any-ycpi-uno.aycpi.b.yahoodns.net [98.136.145.154]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  ap2.dcs-net [192.168.9.10]
  2    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  host6.dcs-net.net [75.146.8.46]
  3    36 ms    28 ms    29 ms  96.191.160.1
  4    10 ms    10 ms    11 ms  xe-4-0-0-0-sur02.murfreesboro.tn.nash.comcast.net [68.85.50.129]
  5    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  xe-5-1-3-0-ar01.goodslettvll.tn.nash.comcast.net [68.86.176.105]
  6    13 ms    10 ms    11 ms  ae-2-0-ar03.nashville.tn.nash.comcast.net [68.85.174.237]
  7    26 ms    29 ms    27 ms  pos-2-10-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.95.209]
  8    28 ms    27 ms    29 ms  pos-0-3-0-0-cr01.chicago.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.88.21]
  9    26 ms    31 ms    24 ms  xe-10-3-0.edge1.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.71.248.9]
 10    34 ms    26 ms    25 ms  4.69.158.238
 11    56 ms    49 ms    49 ms  ae-6-6.ebr2.Washington12.Level3.net [4.69.148.145]
 12    46 ms    45 ms    45 ms  ae-5-5.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.143.221]
 13    53 ms    50 ms    49 ms  ae-62-62.csw1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.134.146]
 14    44 ms    44 ms    45 ms  ae-11-60.car1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.149.3]
 15    66 ms    46 ms    45 ms  YAHOO-INC.car1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.79.228.2]
 16    46 ms    45 ms    45 ms  xe-2-0-0.msr2.ac2.yahoo.com [216.115.108.127]
 17    45 ms    46 ms    46 ms  xe-10-2-0.clr4.ac4.yahoo.com [72.30.96.15]
 18    46 ms    47 ms    49 ms  et-18-25.fab2-1-gdc.ac4.yahoo.com [66.218.79.11]
 19    46 ms    44 ms    44 ms  po-12.bas1-3-prd.ac4.yahoo.com [66.218.79.45]
 20    45 ms    45 ms    44 ms  r3.ycpi.vip.ac4.yahoo.net [98.136.145.154]
 
Trace complete.
 
 


For contrast, here is the same traceroute done from my Windows server that uses a True Static IP address (notice no private IP addresses means no NAT):


C:\>tracert my.yahoo.com
 
Tracing route to ds-any-ycpi-uno.aycpi.b.yahoodns.net [216.115.101.179]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  host6.dcs-net.net [75.146.8.46]
  2    35 ms    19 ms    13 ms  96.191.160.1
  3    10 ms     9 ms     9 ms  xe-4-0-0-0-sur01.murfreesboro.tn.nash.comcast.net [68.85.50.125]
  4    15 ms    11 ms    11 ms  xe-3-1-2-0-ar03.nashville.tn.nash.comcast.net [68.85.174.17]
  5    34 ms    35 ms    25 ms  pos-2-10-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.95.209]
  6    25 ms    27 ms    28 ms  pos-1-3-0-0-cr01.chicago.il.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.88.29]
  7    30 ms    23 ms    24 ms  xe-9-2-0.edge1.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.71.248.25]
  8    26 ms    25 ms    23 ms  4.69.158.238
  9    46 ms    49 ms    50 ms  ae-6-6.ebr2.Washington12.Level3.net [4.69.148.145]
 10    43 ms    45 ms    43 ms  ae-5-5.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.143.221]
 11    43 ms    59 ms    44 ms  ae-62-62.csw1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.134.146]
 12   184 ms    81 ms   104 ms  ae-11-60.car1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.149.3]
 13   144 ms    45 ms    44 ms  YAHOO-INC.car1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.79.228.2]
 14   139 ms    61 ms    54 ms  ae-4-0.pat1.nyc.yahoo.com [216.115.104.121]
 15    51 ms    51 ms    50 ms  r2.ycpi.vip.nyc.yahoo.net [216.115.101.179]
 
Trace complete.
 
 


EDIT:
Here is an old network diagram image from the period where I used the RV082's DMZ interface for my Linux and Windows servers:


(DCS-network-diagram-Comcast_SMCD3G-GS108E-RV082_DMZ-FS105-VT2442-NGR-150-ZSR-010)


This was a true DMZ interface, and each server had one of my public static IP addresses on their WAN interfaces (just as they do now when connected to the SMC's LAN through the SamKnows box).
headbite
join:2012-06-27
Sacramento, CA

headbite

Member

NetFixer your setup is very close to what I'm going for only my setup only has a single server. I would like to run the SMC into the router and have everything go out from there.

The problem I'm up against right now is I can't get more then 1 IP available to my web server. I'll try and explain the next thing I'm trying to get working.

example1.com (x.x.x.100) --> Server1 (192.168.1.10)
example2.com (x.x.x.101) --> Server1 (192.168.1.10)

My server setup is pretty simple. I'm natted to 192.168.1.10 so that's what it listens on. Both sites ping to the right static addresses. With the router wan set to x.x.x.100 the first site loads fine and switching the router wan to x.x.x.101 loads the second site.

Is there any way to keep the setup SMC -> Router -> Server1 and get more then one IP working. Both the SMC and Router have something called "Static Routes" that I have no idea what that setting does. Server1 is in the router software DMZ zone. Taking it out of the software DMZ zone brings the sites down... I would probably need to setup a bunch of port forwards if it wasn't in the DMZ.

Just to fill in the picture a little more here is how I plan to use the other 3 ip's.

So think of the 2 ip's above as something like a shared hosting setup. I'll probably have six low traffic sites up there. Then I want to use 1 ip as general use for wifi devices and stuff like that. General surfing.

The remaining 2 ip's I might be asking a lot but this would be the setup I'm looking for on those.
example4.com (x.x.x.103) --> Server1 (192.168.1.10)
example4.com (x.x.x.103) --> RDP1 (192.168.1.11)
xbox1 -> x.x.x.103

example5.com (x.x.x.104) --> Server1 (192.168.1.10)
example5.com (x.x.x.104) --> RDP2 (192.168.1.12)
xbox2 -> x.x.x.104

I guess what I'm really trying to get around is buying 5 routers. Even with 5 routers I would still be stuck trying to get all 5 ip's avaliable to Server1. Sorry if this post is all over the place. The main thing I want to focus on right now is getting more then one IP available to Server1.

Hope my questions makes some sense and thanks for the help so far.

NetFixer
From My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU

1 edit

NetFixer

Premium Member

I understand what you want to do, but you can't do it from behind the Netgear residential grade router. You will either need to connect your server directly to the SMC gateway, or purchase another router with a true DMZ interface if you want your router to be behind another router.

If you need your server to be able to use multliple true static IP addresses for the Internet, and still use the same private LAN subnet that the rest of your devices use behind the Netgear router, the easiest way (without purchasing a new router) is to do what I do. Install a second NIC for the WAN connection in your server box, then connect that NIC directly to the SMC's WAN using public static IP addresses, and connect the servers LAN interface to your LAN behind the Netgear router using that LAN's private subnet.

Alternatively, you could just connect the server directly to the SMC, and you should still be able to access it through the Netgear router from your LAN devices behind the Netgear router (although if you need SMB or NBT access from the LAN, the Netgear router might block that (you would have to examine what firewall rules are available in that router to see if it can pass SMB and/or NBT traffic).

Whether you connect directly to the SMC, or purchase a new router with a true hardware DMZ, you should be able to assign multiple public IP addresses internally in the server box. I don't know of any recent Windows or *nix based OS that won't allow you to do that.
headbite
join:2012-06-27
Sacramento, CA

headbite

Member

A second nic card sound like just what I need. Once I get everything up and running I'll post a diagram.

Thanks for letting me figure this out as I go. The overall layout is looking a lot more clear now.