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dbirdman
MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa

dbirdman to ExSatUser

MVM

to ExSatUser

Re: [Exede] $9.99/GB if you want more

WildBlue began service in 2005. Hughes FAP occurred in the late 90s. It has changed many times since then, both in good ways and bad ways, but there is no apparent correlation with WB starting up in terms of when changes have occurred. Both before and after WB there were changes to Hughes FAP that were beneficial to users, and changes that were detrimental. Impossible to find a cause/effect relationship there.

Same is true for rates. They have gone up and down (in a narrow range) both before and after WB began. No cause/effect relationship can be derived, although I have little doubt DrStranglov will try hard to manufacture one. The only out-of-range prices during the Hughes history were caused by the stimulus program, not by a competitor.
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov to dbirdman

Member

to dbirdman
said by dbirdman:

Hughes has been in operation more than twice as long as WB

Been more than a few companies with time in the saddle who bit the dust....cause they weren't paying attention to the changing winds of commerce.

What was that about Spaceway F2... News Corp took it you say??
DrStrangLov

DrStrangLov to dbirdman

Member

to dbirdman
said by dbirdman:

but there is no apparent correlation with WB starting up in terms of when changes have occurred.

Having a "competitor" makes no difference...my, my...

And then I hear (hear say) how Hughes is going to undercut Exede with Gen IV.

Competition...makes no difference to Hughes...my, my...btw, do they still have those "free installs, along with "free equipment" deals?

dbirdman
MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa

dbirdman

MVM

said by DrStrangLov:

said by dbirdman:

but there is no apparent correlation with WB starting up in terms of when changes have occurred.

Having a "competitor" makes no difference...my, my...

And then I hear (hear say) how Hughes is going to undercut Exede with Gen IV.

Competition...makes no difference to Hughes...my, my...btw, do they still have those "free installs, along with "free equipment" deals?

It is too bad that we can never have a debate moderated and judged under standard debate rules. Changing the topic when your arguments are shot down wouldn't fly. You can try all you want to put words in my mouth, but that will never mean that I said them.

grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

grohgreg

Member

I'm inclined to suggest that DrStrange give us all a break, and redirect his tendency toward dubitable expression - to the Obama campaign.

//greg//
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov to dbirdman

Member

to dbirdman
said by dbirdman:

It is too bad that we can never have a debate moderated and judged under standard debate rules.

Puffing smoke on Hughes don't cut it either....Gen IV is a clone of ViaSat-1... Hughes is/was playing catch up...

And if you go back in time....Anik-F2 was not created in a day, and everybody in that business world knew it was coming. Small world.

And lastly, even the trade rags have indicated Hughes was second string with ViaSat's vision.
TexasRebel
join:2011-05-29
Edgewood, TX

TexasRebel to BasilAR

Member

to BasilAR
where in the hell are the business packages at?!? I've yet to see any business related packages from ViaSat.

they claimed they were marketing towards news agencies, etc. to give them this huge data pipe to get their stories back to HQ.

they have video of their portable SB terminals for military uses and the like and SB PRO 2 terminals that are for businesses.

Instead they roll this draconian information out and stick it to their residential customers???

what are these money junkie a$$hats smoking??? why are they building data packages that look like AT&T??
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

1 edit

DrStrangLov

Member

Enterprise Solutions for business & government

WildBlue Enterprise Solutions™ offers enterprise class high speed, two-way wireless satellite-delivered products and services to the business customer.

»www.avcllc.com/forYourEn ··· erprise/

Note - Make sure its Exede...talk to BlackSheep: »www.sattraffic.com/
DrStrangLov

DrStrangLov to ExSatUser

Member

to ExSatUser
said by ExSatUser:

As of today Exede has to deal with Verizon 4G in some parts of the country.

Well now, it appears that 4G consumers may experience extra latency.

Hughes Network Systems... Lose That Latency

[SatNews] Hughes Network Systems, LLC (Hughes) has successfully demo'd wireless 4G/Long Term Evolution (LTE) transmissions over satellite backhaul...

»www.satnews.com/cgi-bin/ ··· 54481611
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

2 edits

silbaco

Premium Member

said by DrStrangLov:

said by ExSatUser:

As of today Exede has to deal with Verizon 4G in some parts of the country.

Well now, it appears that 4G consumers may experience extra latency.

Hughes Network Systems... Lose That Latency

[SatNews] Hughes Network Systems, LLC (Hughes) has successfully demo'd wireless 4G/Long Term Evolution (LTE) transmissions over satellite backhaul...

»www.satnews.com/cgi-bin/ ··· 54481611

And then again that may never and likely will never be anything other than experimental. VoLTE would perform horribly over satellite and VoLTE is the future. Network operators are not going to throw their future down the drain.

Edit: The article talks about military and public safety use, such as for emergencies. Not everyday use. Your post is irrelevant, again.
said by DrStrangLov:

Very few Exede folks will experience it during normal viewing hours...not a relevant data point for satellite user data usage. Of course, even fewer Hughes folks will experience it, and maybe none for a HD movie during normal viewing hours, for most all folks.

Statistics must be based in reality, not a person's fantasy.

And why is it that very few Exede folks will experience Netflix? Is it because they are too stupid to know what it is or because their service provider restricts their usage so greatly that they can't afford it? I am thinking the later of those two. And since it the later of those two, that makes Netflix data usage entirely relevant. You can't just deem it as bandwidth intensive and throw out the statistics.
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

said by silbaco:

Your post is irrelevant, again.

I stated "may," nothing more.

June 18, 2012

Advancing Cellular Backhaul Through Satellite
...
...
...
"n major urban areas, there is the infrastructure to support all of this data, but in rural areas, it is much harder for mobile operators to backhaul 3G and 4G data affordably. Fortunately, there is a solution. Mobile operators that have used advanced satellite technology to backhaul 2G traffic are discovering that it is also a viable solution for backhauling more complex and bandwidth-heavy 3G and 4G voice and data"
»blog.idirect.net/advanci ··· tellite/

And why is it that very few Exede folks will experience Netflix?

Those with the "toys" (disposable income) can if they desire, but most folks don't have the bucks to afford higher tiered packages.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco to BasilAR

Premium Member

to BasilAR
Upon doing some digging, I found 4GB flash drives from Staples and made by PNY for $4. Yes, physical hardware is 10 times cheaper than the Exede overages. Further more I found that the flashdrive can be sent through the mail in a small flat rate box for $5.35 for simplicity and there are obviously cheaper options available. So Staples plus the Post Office can transfer 4GB for less than $10 and far less than the $40 it would cost on Exede.

Granted a person could in theory send a lot of data through the mail, so a 1 GB flash drive would be a more fair comparison. However, I found that they are much harder to come by than I would have imagined. So if we just partition the 4 GB so 1 GB is usable, then we can compare a 1 GB flash drive to 1 GB Exede cap. But we still end up at $9.35, cheaper than Exede.

It is a sad day when a "next generation" service can get bested by the post office. I have to give Exede some credit though. Exede does without a doubt offer better latency than the Post Office, although this might be one of the only services they can beat.
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

Carrier pigeons are faster than rural broadband

Carrier pigeons have won a race against rural broad band after delivering USB keys more quickly than a computer using rural broadband was able to download.

»www.telegraph.co.uk/tech ··· and.html
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

said by DrStrangLov:

Carrier pigeons are faster than rural broadband

Carrier pigeons have won a race against rural broad band after delivering USB keys more quickly than a computer using rural broadband was able to download.

»www.telegraph.co.uk/tech ··· and.html

That they were. But this is not a measure of speed, this is a measure of cost. Plus Exede is a brand new service. The post office is over 200 years old.

And not all rural broadband is that way. I have a close friend who just received FTTH, capable of 220mbps. And he lives in a place the big companies wouldn't even consider offering broadband. The comparison of pigeons and rural broadband is ultimately unfair, because not all rural broadband is created equal.
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

Here's what they will be charging up North

»/r0/do ··· t%20.jpg

»www.xplornet.com/traffic ··· htv-itmp

n1581j
@wildblue.net

n1581j to DrStrangLov

Anon

to DrStrangLov
Very few Exede folks will experience it during normal viewing hours...not a relevant data point for satellite user data usage.

You have to be kidding. With the crap on during normal viewing hours how did Netflix not provide not 1 but 2 billion viewing hours
funny_one
Previously known as 'Deadpool'
join:2010-11-01

funny_one to BasilAR

Member

to BasilAR
Does anyone know how ViaSat will ensure that the usage tracking is accurate considering the acceleration software they use?

I'd want some assurances from them that in no way does it cause my usage to be higher than what it's supposed to be as a result of the acceleration!

Anyone?
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

said by funny_one:

Does anyone know how ViaSat will ensure that the usage tracking is accurate considering the acceleration software they use?

It has been suggested usage is based upon what the SB2 Modem counts, which suggests it is based upon uncompressed dataybytes that you receive or transmit.

That said, I use Exede 5, and another person I know of uses Exede 12, and we both use Networx, which keeps track of usage data, and Exede's count and Networx's count are similar.

On Wildblue World Forum, there are some users who suggest their count is off. »www.wildblueworld.com/fo ··· p?t=5635

Anything is possible of a count being off, on any ISP; but to my current understanding, Exede has not yet enforced their DAP
DrStrangLov

DrStrangLov to silbaco

Member

to silbaco
said by silbaco:

ViaSat-1 to offer 12 Mbps download service packages to approximately 1 million subscribers

»www.viasat.com/broadband ··· viasat-1

Footnotes - "Hughes estimates that, depending on the mix of subscriber packages, it can load 600,000 subscribers onto Spaceway-3. The company is adjusting the speed at which it places new customers on the Ka-band satellite so that it is not fully loaded before Jupiter is operational. Jupiter, which in terms of raw throughput is 10 times the size of Spaceway 3, is expected to accommodate between 1.5 million and 2 million subscribers, Kaul said, given the fact that average bandwidth demand per subscriber is increasing."
»www.spacenews.com/satell ··· hes.html

Well now, whose is going to stuff beams, the most?

Spice300
Premium Member
join:2006-01-10

Spice300 to BasilAR

Premium Member

to BasilAR
Some perspective about Viasat-1 and $10 / GB.

Total capacity of Viasat-1: 150 gigabits per second (Gb/s)
Lifetime of Viasat-1: assume 15 years
Cost of Viasat-1: $400 million

Total revenue obtained by selling usage at $10 / GB: $88.8 billion.

Viasat is looking for a profit 222 times larger than their cost. They could charge $1/GB and still make a profit of 22 times their cost. Exede packages should be priced more like $30 / month for 25 GB / month and $50 / month for 50 GB / month. Viasat is out of control with greed. Possibly the military and airlines are paying 10 cents / GB while we residential customers are subsidizing them.

This is the natural outcome of we residential customers who continued to pay the same price for their service as they degraded it into the dirt. They have us hog tied over a barrel. We reap what we sowed.
ExSatUser
join:2012-05-10
Fresno, OH

ExSatUser

Member

There ARE alternatives out there. Nobody is forcing you to buy Exede. I REFUSE to buy it....and I am a Wildblue legacy customer. I am either going to get Verizon 4G or Hughesnet Gen4...and Viasat will lose a customer. And I will certainly let them know what I think of their company once I cancel their service.
JSheridan
join:2006-07-03
USA

JSheridan to Spice300

Member

to Spice300
said by Spice300:

Some perspective about Viasat-1 and $10 / GB.

Total capacity of Viasat-1: 150 gigabits per second (Gb/s)
Lifetime of Viasat-1: assume 15 years
Cost of Viasat-1: $400 million

Total revenue obtained by selling usage at $10 / GB: $88.8 billion.

Viasat is looking for a profit 222 times larger than their cost. They could charge $1/GB and still make a profit of 22 times their cost. Exede packages should be priced more like $30 / month for 25 GB / month and $50 / month for 50 GB / month. Viasat is out of control with greed. Possibly the military and airlines are paying 10 cents / GB while we residential customers are subsidizing them.

This is the natural outcome of we residential customers who continued to pay the same price for their service as they degraded it into the dirt. They have us hog tied over a barrel. We reap what we sowed.

Even if your figures are correct you seem to be forgetting that there are a LOT more expenses other than the cost of the satellite. Probably the most expensive is the bandwidth to the internet, then there's the gateways, back offices, employees, subsidized customer equipment and installations, etc., etc.

n1581j
@wildblue.net

n1581j to ExSatUser

Anon

to ExSatUser
me neither, I already have two Sat services, one being WB legacy, in 2 different countries and I'm not talking about Canada. Of course according to one poster on here, it's not possible. duh. No, in the US, using Exede I would have to step up my packaging at the current caps plus lease new hardware and then wait out another 2 year contract. If I have to do that, I'll either wait for Gen4 or go Verizon.

It's really sad to see the current state of rural high speed in the US when compared to other countries, it was like being transported back into the dark ages. One could argue that distance was the problem, people, you have no idea whats out there
Spice300
Premium Member
join:2006-01-10

Spice300 to ExSatUser

Premium Member

to ExSatUser
For me the alternatives are Internet access via satellite or nothing at my house. Wildblue / Exede has become so bad that "nothing" is appealing. The only thing they have done for me this year is restore my download speed to what it was before they intentionally crippled it in November 2009. They have taken away my ability to upgrade/downgrade my Wildblue service package, and if I ever need a service call to replace equipment, then WB will force the choice of Exede or cancellation upon me. I permanently boycott HughesNet because they shafted me 10 years ago.
Spice300

Spice300 to JSheridan

Premium Member

to JSheridan
As if terrestrial fiber optic Internet service costs more than a satellite FIOS would have to cost 10 times more than the satellite to have the effect on the price of the service that you asset. The equipment and installation are not subsidized because the equipment is leased and the installation fee is renamed to a bogus activation fee. This was the same BS that cable TV companies were doing in the 1980's that led to federal regulation to forbid it. The greatly increased bandwidth of Viasat-1 means that Exede could offer higher speeds, higher caps and reduced price while increasing their profit compared to legacy Wildblue. The executives chose not to, plain and simple.
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

DrStrangLov

Member

said by Spice300:

The executives chose not to, plain and simple.

Its Hughes "move," ViaSat did not "rock the boat," essentially.

"...ViaSat will be able to compete on price given what he said are Hughes’ higher monthly subscriber fees.

He also said ViaSat-1 has room to increase the bandwidth offered subscribers beyond the current package of 3 megabits per second uplink and 12 megabits per second downlink."
»Re: [Exede] Wait for gen 4? 4g?

Both Hughes and ViaSat's birds have enormous capacity, so unless they can find commercial interests, they will have to lower prices and/or increase DAPs, especially if they go after DSL market place. There aren't enough buying rural folks to overload all of their birds (Anik-F2, WB-1, ViaSat-1, Spaceway 3, Gen IV).

If all of these birds can only be used for broadband, then sooner or later, prices/daps will change.

grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

grohgreg

Member

said by DrStrangLov:

Its Hughes "move," ViaSat did not "rock the boat," essentially.

BS. ViaSat rocked the boat the instant they offered "less for more". I know you do your best to underplay that little detail, but it's still incontestable fact. When you get into 5MB connections and above, speed becomes FAR less important than how much data you can download with it - before being penalized. In that arena, ViaSat/Exede will almost certainly have to play catchup with HughesNet/Gen4.

Those 25Mb/s ViaSat speeds by the way, are essentially allocated to enterprise accounts.

//greg//
DrStrangLov
join:2012-03-28

1 edit

DrStrangLov

Member

said by grohgreg:

RE: ViaSat did not "rock the boat,"

BS. ViaSat rocked the boat the instant they offered "less for more".

It didn't break "Hughes heart." Rocking the boat is giving "more for less," which means the competion has to lower their prices/etc. But again, those on NRTC/DISH/DirecTV got the same GBytes on the basic plan.

Those 25Mb/s ViaSat speeds by the way, are essentially allocated to enterprise accounts.

When I first got on Exede 5, it was extremely fast speeds, upto 38 mbps....then they throttled it back to 5 mbps, even during off-peak hours. I discussed this in several posts, btw. Then, they opened the speeds up again.

It really makes no sense to throttle if few people are on-line...their traffic shapping program can clamp down when needed. And yes, their traffic shaping program clamps down during primetime hours, as my current status posts have shown.

Hence, during off peak hours, why throttle...its better to get the user's 'business' over...as soon as possible. It serves no purpose to drag, drag, and drag out the session with lower speeds.
JSheridan
join:2006-07-03
USA

JSheridan to Spice300

Member

to Spice300
said by Spice300:

As if terrestrial fiber optic Internet service costs more than a satellite FIOS would have to cost 10 times more than the satellite to have the effect on the price of the service that you asset. The equipment and installation are not subsidized because the equipment is leased and the installation fee is renamed to a bogus activation fee. This was the same BS that cable TV companies were doing in the 1980's that led to federal regulation to forbid it. The greatly increased bandwidth of Viasat-1 means that Exede could offer higher speeds, higher caps and reduced price while increasing their profit compared to legacy Wildblue. The executives chose not to, plain and simple.

They have to pay for fiber to the gateways and a boat load of bandwidth to the internet PLUS the cost of the satellites, etc., etc. No matter what the facts and the numbers say I know you think that those greedy companies are just ripping you off, so enjoy the hate. Better yet, why don't you start a satellite ISP and show us how it's done. If it's as great as you say it should be we'll all sign up.
TexasRebel
join:2011-05-29
Edgewood, TX

TexasRebel

Member

Dude will you stop being a goddam cheerleader for corporate greed?? Fiber does not cost that damn much to plant.. You act like it's made of some precious mineral that they have to mine for on Titan, one of the moons of Saturn.

ViaSat spent somewhere around $500 million to get the satellite built, launched, parked in a orbital slot and then all the ground infrastructure in place.. It's a chuck of change, but you forget ViaSat is a huge company that has many other business units that are making it money..

Just STFU with, `why don't you create you own satellite ISP', you know if I had the money, I'd gone with a Stratellite model. Extremely high altitude blimps carrying the same electronics which would probably be less weight.. Unfortunately, I don't have a too big to fail bank to loan me the money, which is printed out of effin thin air..