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DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
reply to silbaco

Re: [Exede] $9.99/GB if you want more

said by silbaco:

Your post is irrelevant, again.

I stated "may," nothing more.

June 18, 2012

Advancing Cellular Backhaul Through Satellite
...
...
...
"n major urban areas, there is the infrastructure to support all of this data, but in rural areas, it is much harder for mobile operators to backhaul 3G and 4G data affordably. Fortunately, there is a solution. Mobile operators that have used advanced satellite technology to backhaul 2G traffic are discovering that it is also a viable solution for backhauling more complex and bandwidth-heavy 3G and 4G voice and data"
»blog.idirect.net/advancing-cellu···tellite/

And why is it that very few Exede folks will experience Netflix?

Those with the "toys" (disposable income) can if they desire, but most folks don't have the bucks to afford higher tiered packages.

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
reply to BasilAR
Upon doing some digging, I found 4GB flash drives from Staples and made by PNY for $4. Yes, physical hardware is 10 times cheaper than the Exede overages. Further more I found that the flashdrive can be sent through the mail in a small flat rate box for $5.35 for simplicity and there are obviously cheaper options available. So Staples plus the Post Office can transfer 4GB for less than $10 and far less than the $40 it would cost on Exede.

Granted a person could in theory send a lot of data through the mail, so a 1 GB flash drive would be a more fair comparison. However, I found that they are much harder to come by than I would have imagined. So if we just partition the 4 GB so 1 GB is usable, then we can compare a 1 GB flash drive to 1 GB Exede cap. But we still end up at $9.35, cheaper than Exede.

It is a sad day when a "next generation" service can get bested by the post office. I have to give Exede some credit though. Exede does without a doubt offer better latency than the Post Office, although this might be one of the only services they can beat.

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
Carrier pigeons are faster than rural broadband

Carrier pigeons have won a race against rural broad band after delivering USB keys more quickly than a computer using rural broadband was able to download.

»www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n···and.html

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
said by DrStrangLov:

Carrier pigeons are faster than rural broadband

Carrier pigeons have won a race against rural broad band after delivering USB keys more quickly than a computer using rural broadband was able to download.

»www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n···and.html

That they were. But this is not a measure of speed, this is a measure of cost. Plus Exede is a brand new service. The post office is over 200 years old.

And not all rural broadband is that way. I have a close friend who just received FTTH, capable of 220mbps. And he lives in a place the big companies wouldn't even consider offering broadband. The comparison of pigeons and rural broadband is ultimately unfair, because not all rural broadband is created equal.

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
Here's what they will be charging up North

»/r0/download/2···t%20.jpg

»www.xplornet.com/traffic-management/htv-itmp


n1581j

@wildblue.net
reply to DrStrangLov
Very few Exede folks will experience it during normal viewing hours...not a relevant data point for satellite user data usage.

You have to be kidding. With the crap on during normal viewing hours how did Netflix not provide not 1 but 2 billion viewing hours

funny_one
Previously known as 'Deadpool'

join:2010-11-01
reply to BasilAR
Does anyone know how ViaSat will ensure that the usage tracking is accurate considering the acceleration software they use?

I'd want some assurances from them that in no way does it cause my usage to be higher than what it's supposed to be as a result of the acceleration!

Anyone?

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
said by funny_one:

Does anyone know how ViaSat will ensure that the usage tracking is accurate considering the acceleration software they use?

It has been suggested usage is based upon what the SB2 Modem counts, which suggests it is based upon uncompressed dataybytes that you receive or transmit.

That said, I use Exede 5, and another person I know of uses Exede 12, and we both use Networx, which keeps track of usage data, and Exede's count and Networx's count are similar.

On Wildblue World Forum, there are some users who suggest their count is off. »www.wildblueworld.com/forum/show···p?t=5635

Anything is possible of a count being off, on any ISP; but to my current understanding, Exede has not yet enforced their DAP

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
reply to silbaco
said by silbaco:

ViaSat-1 to offer 12 Mbps download service packages to approximately 1 million subscribers

»www.viasat.com/broadband-satelli···viasat-1

Footnotes - "Hughes estimates that, depending on the mix of subscriber packages, it can load 600,000 subscribers onto Spaceway-3. The company is adjusting the speed at which it places new customers on the Ka-band satellite so that it is not fully loaded before Jupiter is operational. Jupiter, which in terms of raw throughput is 10 times the size of Spaceway 3, is expected to accommodate between 1.5 million and 2 million subscribers, Kaul said, given the fact that average bandwidth demand per subscriber is increasing."
»www.spacenews.com/satellite_tele···hes.html

Well now, whose is going to stuff beams, the most?


Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to BasilAR
Some perspective about Viasat-1 and $10 / GB.

Total capacity of Viasat-1: 150 gigabits per second (Gb/s)
Lifetime of Viasat-1: assume 15 years
Cost of Viasat-1: $400 million

Total revenue obtained by selling usage at $10 / GB: $88.8 billion.

Viasat is looking for a profit 222 times larger than their cost. They could charge $1/GB and still make a profit of 22 times their cost. Exede packages should be priced more like $30 / month for 25 GB / month and $50 / month for 50 GB / month. Viasat is out of control with greed. Possibly the military and airlines are paying 10 cents / GB while we residential customers are subsidizing them.

This is the natural outcome of we residential customers who continued to pay the same price for their service as they degraded it into the dirt. They have us hog tied over a barrel. We reap what we sowed.
--
Wildblue Value Pack, beam 31, Riverside gateway

OldSatUser

join:2012-05-10
Fresno, OH
There ARE alternatives out there. Nobody is forcing you to buy Exede. I REFUSE to buy it....and I am a Wildblue legacy customer. I am either going to get Verizon 4G or Hughesnet Gen4...and Viasat will lose a customer. And I will certainly let them know what I think of their company once I cancel their service.

JSheridan

join:2006-07-03
USA
reply to Spice300
said by Spice300:

Some perspective about Viasat-1 and $10 / GB.

Total capacity of Viasat-1: 150 gigabits per second (Gb/s)
Lifetime of Viasat-1: assume 15 years
Cost of Viasat-1: $400 million

Total revenue obtained by selling usage at $10 / GB: $88.8 billion.

Viasat is looking for a profit 222 times larger than their cost. They could charge $1/GB and still make a profit of 22 times their cost. Exede packages should be priced more like $30 / month for 25 GB / month and $50 / month for 50 GB / month. Viasat is out of control with greed. Possibly the military and airlines are paying 10 cents / GB while we residential customers are subsidizing them.

This is the natural outcome of we residential customers who continued to pay the same price for their service as they degraded it into the dirt. They have us hog tied over a barrel. We reap what we sowed.

Even if your figures are correct you seem to be forgetting that there are a LOT more expenses other than the cost of the satellite. Probably the most expensive is the bandwidth to the internet, then there's the gateways, back offices, employees, subsidized customer equipment and installations, etc., etc.


n1581j

@wildblue.net
reply to OldSatUser
me neither, I already have two Sat services, one being WB legacy, in 2 different countries and I'm not talking about Canada. Of course according to one poster on here, it's not possible. duh. No, in the US, using Exede I would have to step up my packaging at the current caps plus lease new hardware and then wait out another 2 year contract. If I have to do that, I'll either wait for Gen4 or go Verizon.

It's really sad to see the current state of rural high speed in the US when compared to other countries, it was like being transported back into the dark ages. One could argue that distance was the problem, people, you have no idea whats out there

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to OldSatUser
For me the alternatives are Internet access via satellite or nothing at my house. Wildblue / Exede has become so bad that "nothing" is appealing. The only thing they have done for me this year is restore my download speed to what it was before they intentionally crippled it in November 2009. They have taken away my ability to upgrade/downgrade my Wildblue service package, and if I ever need a service call to replace equipment, then WB will force the choice of Exede or cancellation upon me. I permanently boycott HughesNet because they shafted me 10 years ago.

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to JSheridan
As if terrestrial fiber optic Internet service costs more than a satellite FIOS would have to cost 10 times more than the satellite to have the effect on the price of the service that you asset. The equipment and installation are not subsidized because the equipment is leased and the installation fee is renamed to a bogus activation fee. This was the same BS that cable TV companies were doing in the 1980's that led to federal regulation to forbid it. The greatly increased bandwidth of Viasat-1 means that Exede could offer higher speeds, higher caps and reduced price while increasing their profit compared to legacy Wildblue. The executives chose not to, plain and simple.
--
Wildblue Value Pack, beam 31, Riverside gateway

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
said by Spice300:

The executives chose not to, plain and simple.

Its Hughes "move," ViaSat did not "rock the boat," essentially.

"...ViaSat will be able to compete on price given what he said are Hughes’ higher monthly subscriber fees.

He also said ViaSat-1 has room to increase the bandwidth offered subscribers beyond the current package of 3 megabits per second uplink and 12 megabits per second downlink."
»Re: [Exede] Wait for gen 4? 4g?

Both Hughes and ViaSat's birds have enormous capacity, so unless they can find commercial interests, they will have to lower prices and/or increase DAPs, especially if they go after DSL market place. There aren't enough buying rural folks to overload all of their birds (Anik-F2, WB-1, ViaSat-1, Spaceway 3, Gen IV).

If all of these birds can only be used for broadband, then sooner or later, prices/daps will change.


grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
said by DrStrangLov:

Its Hughes "move," ViaSat did not "rock the boat," essentially.

BS. ViaSat rocked the boat the instant they offered "less for more". I know you do your best to underplay that little detail, but it's still incontestable fact. When you get into 5MB connections and above, speed becomes FAR less important than how much data you can download with it - before being penalized. In that arena, ViaSat/Exede will almost certainly have to play catchup with HughesNet/Gen4.

Those 25Mb/s ViaSat speeds by the way, are essentially allocated to enterprise accounts.

//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1

1 edit
said by grohgreg:

RE: ViaSat did not "rock the boat,"

BS. ViaSat rocked the boat the instant they offered "less for more".

It didn't break "Hughes heart." Rocking the boat is giving "more for less," which means the competion has to lower their prices/etc. But again, those on NRTC/DISH/DirecTV got the same GBytes on the basic plan.

Those 25Mb/s ViaSat speeds by the way, are essentially allocated to enterprise accounts.

When I first got on Exede 5, it was extremely fast speeds, upto 38 mbps....then they throttled it back to 5 mbps, even during off-peak hours. I discussed this in several posts, btw. Then, they opened the speeds up again.

It really makes no sense to throttle if few people are on-line...their traffic shapping program can clamp down when needed. And yes, their traffic shaping program clamps down during primetime hours, as my current status posts have shown.

Hence, during off peak hours, why throttle...its better to get the user's 'business' over...as soon as possible. It serves no purpose to drag, drag, and drag out the session with lower speeds.

JSheridan

join:2006-07-03
USA
reply to Spice300
said by Spice300:

As if terrestrial fiber optic Internet service costs more than a satellite FIOS would have to cost 10 times more than the satellite to have the effect on the price of the service that you asset. The equipment and installation are not subsidized because the equipment is leased and the installation fee is renamed to a bogus activation fee. This was the same BS that cable TV companies were doing in the 1980's that led to federal regulation to forbid it. The greatly increased bandwidth of Viasat-1 means that Exede could offer higher speeds, higher caps and reduced price while increasing their profit compared to legacy Wildblue. The executives chose not to, plain and simple.

They have to pay for fiber to the gateways and a boat load of bandwidth to the internet PLUS the cost of the satellites, etc., etc. No matter what the facts and the numbers say I know you think that those greedy companies are just ripping you off, so enjoy the hate. Better yet, why don't you start a satellite ISP and show us how it's done. If it's as great as you say it should be we'll all sign up.

TexasRebel

join:2011-05-29
Edgewood, TX
Dude will you stop being a goddam cheerleader for corporate greed?? Fiber does not cost that damn much to plant.. You act like it's made of some precious mineral that they have to mine for on Titan, one of the moons of Saturn.

ViaSat spent somewhere around $500 million to get the satellite built, launched, parked in a orbital slot and then all the ground infrastructure in place.. It's a chuck of change, but you forget ViaSat is a huge company that has many other business units that are making it money..

Just STFU with, `why don't you create you own satellite ISP', you know if I had the money, I'd gone with a Stratellite model. Extremely high altitude blimps carrying the same electronics which would probably be less weight.. Unfortunately, I don't have a too big to fail bank to loan me the money, which is printed out of effin thin air..


DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
reply to grohgreg
said by grohgreg:

Those 25Mb/s ViaSat speeds by the way, are essentially allocated to enterprise accounts.

ViaSat has been fine tuning their system.

For instance on Youtube (or other video content sites):

A. In the beginning, there use to be "stall-outs" (buffering) sometimes.

B. Currently, there is an initial burst to get video running, and then the visual "slidebar" on Youtube's vid may go extremely fast with the complete video queued on your computer.

Hence, if traffic shapping program "sees" more bandwidth is available, it will deliver "full speed ahead" now.

An user's download speed, like on a video, can exceed their plan (5/12).

I have no idea if this is done on WB legacy, but this new traffic shaping for video is about getting content delivered as soon as possible.

Exede is not about a "metered or constant" speed, but its about getting the job done, at the fastest speed possible, for video.
Expand your moderator at work

silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
reply to BasilAR

Re: [Exede] $9.99/GB if you want more

One thing Exede and all other internet service providers should have to do is guarantee accuracy of their usage meters. As of right now there is no guarantee that their meters are accurate and many are proven to not be. Exede is no more guilty of this than any other provider and it is hard to make an accurate meter. But this should be a requirement if they choose to offer service with caps or if they utilize usage billing.

Perhaps regulators need to step in on this one. Electric and other utility meters are mandated to have a certain level of accuracy. If internet providers want to charge based on consumption of an unlimited resource, then they too should be mandated to have a certain level of accuracy.


grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

4 edits
reply to DrStrangLov
said by DrStrangLov:

I have no idea ...

On that you're correct. Perhaps you'd have dissembled less had I phrased it differently; "Plans advertising 25Mb/s and higher will likely be marketed as large business and Enterprise accounts". That said, expect such offerings to be marketed in the same manner as were WB business and enterprise plans; that is, by 3rd party vendors. Same satellite, different branding.

You're not doing readers any favors with this "traffic shaping" mumbo jumbo either. What's actually happening is little more than another approach to web acceleration; an in-network compression of content. This technique uses farms of Cisco blade servers to pre-process popular Web content into a compressed form. This means compressed content necessarily travels alongside uncompressed content over the network. The compressed content is decompressed on-the-fly once it is delivered to your Surfbeam2, and delivered to your computer as a plain vanilla bitstream. Sounds good on paper. But this particular approach brings with it the issue of synchronizing the decompressed content with the uncompressed content before rendering the aggregate in a browser. When this "sync" is weak or broken, 3rd party software - particularly those that use data compressed OUTSIDE the Exede network - can get confused. Had you understood this, we'd have been spared those uninformed ramblings about video compression that you foisted on us last week.

//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
reply to silbaco
said by silbaco:

One thing Exede and all other internet service providers should have to do is guarantee accuracy of their usage meters.

Jan 25, 2011

Canada regulator OKs metered Internet billing
»www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/···20110125

Jan 31 2011

200GB to 25GB: Canada gets first, bitter dose of metered Internet
Usage Based Billing (UBB) has come to Canada, and indie ISPs are starting to …
»arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011···billing/

03-Jul-2012

Time Warner Cable Expands Metered Billing Efforts
»Time Warner Cable Expands Metered Billing Efforts

DrStrangLov

join:2012-03-28
kudos:1
reply to grohgreg
said by grohgreg:

had I phrased it differently; "Plans advertising 25Mb/s and higher will likely be marketed as large business and Enterprise accounts".

I think that's a no brainer...but those with disposable income, B. Gates, Warren Buffet, etc., could acquire it.

You're not doing readers any favors with this "traffic shaping" mumbo jumbo either.

Traffic Cop decides how much and when...for those who don't have a Committed Access Rate (re: CIR) account.

This technique uses farms of Cisco blade servers to pre-process popular Web content into a compressed form. .....
Had you understood this, we'd have been spared those uninformed ramblings about video compression that you foisted on us last week.

Here you go Gregg, HTML5 is about using video that has been compressed, without "farms of Cisco blade servers."

The Things You Need to Know about HTML5 Video Formats
...
...
H.264/MPEG-4 is a standard for video compression, and is currently one of the most commonly used formats for the recording, compression, and distribution of high definition video.
...
...
»www.sothinkmedia.com/blog/the-th···formats/
Expand your moderator at work

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to JSheridan

Re: [Exede] $9.99/GB if you want more

said by JSheridan:

Better yet, why don't you start a satellite ISP and show us how it's done. If it's as great as you say it should be we'll all sign up.

Announcing initial stock offering for BetterSat LLC. of 70 million shares. Only $10 / share with a minimum purchase of 10,000 shares. Get in on the ground floor because the sky is the limit.

With a capacity of 100 Tb/s and 200 spot beams our satellite will cover all of North America and Hawaii supporting 1.5 million customers. That's 8.3 MB/s/customer sustained with no usage limit, no FAP, no DAP, no nanny, no NMP. We will raise residential broadband Internet access via satellite to a new level of consumer satisfaction. Every Internet protocol that can tolerate a 500 to 600 ms latency will be supported. We will smother the competition. We will create our own continental installation network of internally trained and certified installers. Bad installs will be a thing of the past. Our customer service reps will be citizens of the country to which they sell service. They will be trained and our policies fair and honest.

We anticipate the cost of the service to be around $30 / month with an installation fee of $200 returning 8 billion gross over the 15 year minimum lifetime of the satellite

JSheridan

join:2006-07-03
USA
said by Spice300:

said by JSheridan:

Better yet, why don't you start a satellite ISP and show us how it's done. If it's as great as you say it should be we'll all sign up.

Announcing initial stock offering for BetterSat LLC. of 70 million shares. Only $10 / share with a minimum purchase of 10,000 shares. Get in on the ground floor because the sky is the limit.

With a capacity of 100 Tb/s and 200 spot beams our satellite will cover all of North America and Hawaii supporting 1.5 million customers. That's 8.3 MB/s/customer sustained with no usage limit, no FAP, no DAP, no nanny, no NMP. We will raise residential broadband Internet access via satellite to a new level of consumer satisfaction. Every Internet protocol that can tolerate a 500 to 600 ms latency will be supported. We will smother the competition. We will create our own continental installation network of internally trained and certified installers. Bad installs will be a thing of the past. Our customer service reps will be citizens of the country to which they sell service. They will be trained and our policies fair and honest.

We anticipate the cost of the service to be around $30 / month with an installation fee of $200 returning 8 billion gross over the 15 year minimum lifetime of the satellite

I'm in. Sign me up.