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This is a sub-selection from Microsoft Installs Skype Without Consent

19579823 (banned) An Awesome Dude join:2003-08-04	19579823 (banned) to Steve Member 2012-Jun-30 7:33 am to Steve A mistake? THEY KEEP DOING THINGS LIKE THIS OVER AND OVER..... I highly doubt it was a mistake Steve,ya gotta remember who we are dealing with buddy! (They have become quite intrusive over the years) said by Fern Rivas : Most people just think "Skype? Cool.." and move along while their datastreams are being monitored. Makes perfect sense. Exactly my friend! Anything to make it even EASIER to spy on people!! (This gives them voice and maybe video also)
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 7:33 am ·
carpetshark3 Premium Member join:2004-02-12 Idledale, CO	carpetshark3 Premium Member 2012-Jun-30 8:22 am What can MS do with Skype on a Linux machine? They can't use Windows updates. I suppose Skype on Android would have the same question.
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 8:22 am ·
AVD Respice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ	AVD Premium Member 2012-Jun-30 8:54 am said by carpetshark3: What can MS do with Skype on a Linux machine? They can't use Windows updates. I suppose Skype on Android would have the same question. What's the question?
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 8:54 am ·
Steve I know your IP address join:2001-03-10 Tustin, CA	Steve to 19579823 2012-Jun-30 11:43 am to 19579823 said by 19579823: I highly doubt it was a mistake Steve No, it was a mistake. In this thread, pay attention to the Microsoft guy WSUS suddenly installed Skype on 06/27/12 said by MSFT guy : this is not the expected behavior for the Skype update. It should only be installed to PCs where an earlier version of Skype is already present. Would you consider sending a ZIP version of a WindowsUpdate.LOG file from an affected PC directly to me at (email) ... said by MSFT guy : If anyone affected could send me a WindowsUpdate.LOG from an affected PC, I can investigate. Please ZIP the file and send it directly to me at (address) I convinced a previous (perhaps even ancient) version of Skype was already installed on these PCs. ... said by MSFT guy : Thanks to those who sent me their logs, we've identified the issue and have expired the update. This kind of thread is exactly how we normally see these problems resolved: Microsoft does whatever testing they do, then release it, and when they get feedback, they dig in and fix when necessary. I have personally sent in WindowsUpdate.LOG files to Microsoft to resolve installer issues that ended up getting fixed. I suppose one could claim that the above was all a charade and that Microsoft really believed that 1 billion people wouldn't notice, but I'm stickin' with the "mistake" theory. Steve
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 11:43 am ·
19579823 (banned) An Awesome Dude join:2003-08-04	19579823 (banned) Member 2012-Jun-30 12:37 pm quote: No, it was a mistake. In this thread, pay attention to the Microsoft guy Oh my....... Are you that asleep? YOU REALLY EXPECT HIM TO SAY ANYTHING OTHERWISE??
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 12:37 pm ·
Steve I know your IP address join:2001-03-10 Tustin, CA 1 recommendation	Steve 2012-Jun-30 12:39 pm You have your tinfoil on backwards: it's *shiny side out*
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 12:39 pm ·
dave Premium Member join:2000-05-04 not in ohio 1 recommendation	dave Premium Member 2012-Jun-30 12:44 pm YOU REALLY EXPECT DUDE111 TO SAY ANYTHING OTHERWISE?? It must be nice to live in the dud's world, where no-one ever makes a mistake: it's all conscious and deliberate strategy to enslave everyone. There's one thing that puzzles me; if the QA is so damn good that no-one ever ships buggy code, why are they so bad at concealing their evil schemes?
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 12:44 pm ·
AVD Respice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ	AVD Premium Member 2012-Jun-30 1:23 pm said by dave: There's one thing that puzzles me; if the QA is so damn good that no-one ever ships buggy code, why are they so bad at concealing their evil schemes? MS never shipped buggy code?
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 1:23 pm ·
AVD	AVD to Steve Premium Member 2012-Jun-30 1:26 pm to Steve I'm with 19579823 on this one, while it probably was a mistake, MS doesn't get a free pass, invasions of privacy are assumed intentional.
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 1:26 pm ·
Steve I know your IP address join:2001-03-10 Tustin, CA	Steve 2012-Jun-30 1:39 pm Re: Skype installed w/o consent said by AVD: I'm with 19579823 on this one, while it probably was a mistake, MS doesn't get a free pass, invasions of privacy are assumed intentional. Giving you the benefit of the doubt for your poor judgement (regarding the dud, not MSFT), what's the *possible* benefit to Microsoft for doing something like this on purpose and then orchestrating the expiration of the update. What conversations do you imagine that might have led to an intentional act like this? If it were on purpose, why wouldn't it have been done to all Windows Updates users, not just enterprises using WSUS? I'm all for thinking that Microsoft is evil - and sometimes I mostly agree - but there has to be at least a figment of an upside for them to make this claim anything other than ridiculous. Steve
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 1:39 pm ·
dave Premium Member join:2000-05-04 not in ohio	dave to AVD Premium Member 2012-Jun-30 1:43 pm to AVD Re: said by AVD: MS never shipped buggy code? According to my understanding of 19579823 's position, it's all deliberate. Maybe starting with the WMF security problem, which the dude astutely observes that Microsoft was behind.
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 1:43 pm ·
AVD Respice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ	AVD to Steve Premium Member 2012-Jun-30 1:44 pm to Steve Re: Skype installed w/o consent Don't forget, Skype is a distributed system. The more devices directly connected to a network running skype, the better it works.
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 1:44 pm ·
Steve I know your IP address join:2001-03-10 Tustin, CA	Steve 2012-Jun-30 1:49 pm said by AVD: Don't forget, Skype is a distributed system. The more devices directly connected to a network running skype, the better it works. Sure, but is there any allegation that whatever is pushed to the PCs actually joins the Skype network, or doesn't it have to be actively signed on with a valid Skype username? Will any unwilling victims actually be made to join the network?
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 1:49 pm ·
dave Premium Member join:2000-05-04 not in ohio	dave to AVD Premium Member 2012-Jun-30 1:50 pm to AVD Re: said by AVD: I'm with 19579823 on this one, while it probably was a mistake, MS doesn't get a free pass, invasions of privacy are assumed intentional. How was this 'an invasion of privacy?'. Am I missing something? Skype was installed on machines that had not previously had Skype installed. Is there some way to use Skype to turn on monitoring without the knowledge or consent of the computer user? (I assume my privacy was not at risk, since no camera, mic, or speakers...) At most this seems, if deliberate, to be a case of foisting unwanted software on people. Skype was instantly deinstallable. Also, my understanding is that this only affected WSUS users. Isn't that just "places with IT departments"? Which I take to mean places with people who can figure this out and take appropriate action.
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 1:50 pm ·
NormanS I gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616 Asus RT-AC66U B1 Netgear FR114P	NormanS to 19579823 MVM 2012-Jun-30 2:33 pm to 19579823 said by 19579823: said by Fern Rivas : Most people just think "Skype? Cool.." and move along while their datastreams are being monitored. Makes perfect sense. Exactly my friend! Anything to make it even EASIER to spy on people!! (This gives them voice and maybe video also) Curious. See the screen shots. I expanded the Task Manager list as far as possible, and sorted it two ways. Unless I explicitly invoke Skype, how does it "spy" on me? When will Skype start? If Skype isn't invoked?
	actions · 2012-Jun-30 2:33 pm ·

AVD Respice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ	AVD Premium Member 2012-Jul-1 8:06 am Didn't realize this was the security forum (thought it was the pub), so I'll stop posting flippant replies. But I gotta say you guys are acting real naive here.
	actions · 2012-Jul-1 8:06 am ·
carpetshark3 Premium Member join:2004-02-12 Idledale, CO	carpetshark3 to AVD Premium Member 2012-Jul-1 9:15 am to AVD If you are running Skype on anything else but Windows, can MS FORCE an update or inject commercials into an older version? Updates for Android apps usually go through Google Play, and you can turn off auto updating. Update Manager tells you what updates are available, and you don't have to install them, although FX tried to update automatically bypassing Update Manager. So can MS sneak an update through on Ubuntu/Android directly?
	actions · 2012-Jul-1 9:15 am ·
19579823 (banned) An Awesome Dude join:2003-08-04	19579823 (banned) Member 2012-Jul-1 9:55 am quote: If you are running Skype on anything else but Windows, can MS FORCE an update or inject commercials into an older version? No i dont think they can..... Staying with an older version is the best thing if your gonna be on that! (IF THEY DONT DISABLE THE OLDER VERSIONS THAT IS) said by dave : Skype was installed on machines that had not previously had Skype installed. Yup exactly Dave,they hope people will use it SO THEY CAN THEN SPY ON THEM IN MORE WAYS!!
	actions · 2012-Jul-1 9:55 am ·

dave Premium Member join:2000-05-04 not in ohio	dave Premium Member 2012-Jul-1 10:28 am That's a pretty serious attack vector, then - "hoping" people will use it. I take it you didn't bother to read my earlier link, on people who believe in conspiracy theories? (tl;dr summary: people who believe in one conspiracy theory will tend to believe in any conspiracy no matter how implausible).
	actions · 2012-Jul-1 10:28 am ·
NormanS I gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616 Asus RT-AC66U B1 Netgear FR114P	NormanS to 19579823 MVM 2012-Jul-1 11:43 am to 19579823 said by 19579823: Yup exactly Dave,they hope people will use it SO THEY CAN THEN SPY ON THEM IN MORE WAYS!! But even the latest version of Skype has a checkbox to "Start when Windows starts". I don't recall what the default was on installation; I have a tendency to disable the "Start when Windows starts" on most of my applications which might "spy" on me. If the Skype process isn't running, do you suppose they do something else to "spy" on me? But I lead a mostly boring life, so what do they think they will get by all this spying? On another plane, how do I keep my data packets from traversing AS7018 ("AT&T Services"), where the NSA is plugged in?
	actions · 2012-Jul-1 11:43 am ·
IamGimli (banned) join:2004-02-28 Canada	IamGimli (banned) to 19579823 Member 2012-Jul-19 2:54 pm to 19579823 said by 19579823: Yup exactly Dave,they hope people will use it SO THEY CAN THEN SPY ON THEM IN MORE WAYS!! If Microsoft's goal was to spy on people without people knowing it, why would they package the technology as a visible application that users can control and not just add the "spying" technology to a kernel patch? They're the ones who engineer, program and package all Windows patches. Why would they use the least subtle, least efficient format to achieve something covert? It makes no sense whatsoever.
	actions · 2012-Jul-19 2:54 pm ·
dave Premium Member join:2000-05-04 not in ohio 1 recommendation	dave Premium Member 2012-Jul-19 3:34 pm The tin-foik hat crowd already answered that one: "hidden in plain sight". It's part of the basic conspiracy-nut mind-set. Failure to find evidence of a conspiracy is evidence that the conspiracy exists and furthermore shows you just how devious the conspirators really are.
	actions · 2012-Jul-19 3:34 pm ·
NormanS I gave her time to steal my mind away MVM join:2001-02-14 San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616 Asus RT-AC66U B1 Netgear FR114P	NormanS MVM 2012-Jul-19 3:46 pm I do not think conspiracy theorists have worked in a large, bureaucratic environment; or have not paid attention to anything if they have. The first rule of keeping secrets is to not have any. As the aphorism goes: "Three can keep a secret ... if two are dead."
	actions · 2012-Jul-19 3:46 pm ·
OZO Premium Member join:2003-01-17	OZO to IamGimli Premium Member 2012-Jul-24 4:42 pm to IamGimli said by IamGimli: If Microsoft's goal was to spy on people without people knowing it, why would they package the technology as a visible application... Or at least they would not publicly patent the MITM attack, where Skype is used as one of examples of implementation... See the actual patent here - "Legal Intercept" [0110153809]. Well, it's yet another argument for stupid tin-foil hat crowd. But, of course, it doesn't matter for their opponents, who always prefer to keep their heads in a sand... Name Game - thank you for the link to the recent article.
	actions · 2012-Jul-24 4:42 pm ·

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