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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

Can you trust Cloud for Security and Redundancy

Amazon Cloud Goes Down Friday Night, Taking Netflix, Instagram And Pinterest With It

As of 1:15 am EST, Netflix appears to be back up and running, but Pinterest, Instagram and Heroku still appear to be down. It was just an hour-and-a-half during peak traffic time for these affected companies, but this event follows a six-and-a-half hour outage on EC2 two weeks ago. And one of the selling points of the Cloud is that there are redundancies to prevent just such occurrences. A small step backwards, perhaps, for cloud computing.

UPDATE: As of 1:50 AM EST, Pinterest was back up.

UPDATE: As of 9:30 AM EST, Mashable reports that Instagram is still down.

»www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosn···with-it/
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Snowy
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"Can you trust Cloud for Security and Redundancy"
It's not a cloud issue, you can trust that you're resiliency is going to come into play at some point regardless of where or what you've hitched your wagon to.
Redundancy is what you make it to be.
One of the earlier well documented cases of redundancy & security happens to be the chinny chin chin hair raising events of 3 brothers.
"The Three Little Pigs"
The facts of that case are undisputed.
2 of them inadequately planned for the eventual & almost got eaten because of it. Fortunately for them & unfortunately for The Bad Wolf the 3rd pig had properly planned for the inevitable.
So the answer to "Can you trust Cloud for Security and Redundancy" would depend more on who you are asking than it does with having to do with the cloud or data center or etc...


dave
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reply to Name Game
The SLA for the amazon cloud guarantees 99.95% uptime, which translates to a little more that 4 hours downtime allowed per year.

However, I don't know what the penalty is for not delivering on the SLA (nor if there are conditions which allow them to wriggle out of responsibility for downtime). I assume that is what tells you how much you can trust the cloud: if the penalties are minor, then your trust should be low too.

Snowy is right: if it matters that much, you'd better make your own redundancy.


Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to Snowy
Some good points there...

I'll have to think about that for a second..sounds like the spring in winter thing.

»www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati···13.story

So do you think there is a chance little red riding hood would ever find a wolf in grandma's cloud ? Did the wolf really eat grandma or was she just out playing bingo in virtual memory ?
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Oregonian
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West Linn, OR
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reply to dave
said by dave:

The SLA for the amazon cloud guarantees 99.95% uptime, which translates to a little more that 4 hours downtime allowed per year.

However, I don't know what the penalty is for not delivering on the SLA (nor if there are conditions which allow them to wriggle out of responsibility for downtime). I assume that is what tells you how much you can trust the cloud: if the penalties are minor, then your trust should be low too.

From the Amazon SLA:

Service Commitments and Service Credits
If the Annual Uptime Percentage for a customer drops below 99.95% for the Service Year, that customer is eligible to receive a Service Credit equal to 10% of their bill (excluding one-time payments made for Reserved Instances) for the Eligible Credit Period. To file a claim, a customer does not have to have wait 365 days from the day they started using the service or 365 days from their last successful claim. A customer can file a claim any time their Annual Uptime Percentage over the trailing 365 days drops below 99.95%.

»aws.amazon.com/ec2-sla/

The claim is paid in the form of credits to future services so Amazon doesn't have to issue a refund if they fail to meet the terms of the SLA.

But it is also possible that big companies like NetFlix have negotiated a different SLA with Amazon which guarantees better uptime performance.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
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reply to Name Game
for a big datacenter like Amazon could there even be enough generator power to run it until the utility can repair wide spread grid damage? Or are gensets only there to properly power down the systems.
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dave
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join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
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2 recommendations

reply to Oregonian
Basically worthless, then: if you don't like our service, we'll give you more of it.


Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

2 recommendations

reply to Name Game
A few comments found on the net about this incident...

Amazon sells cloud computing as more secure and reliable than running your own dedicated data center, and then goes down for hours because of the utterly unprecedented, once-in-a-lifetime event of… um, a thunderstorm, you’re not allowed to shrug it off as a “technical glitch”.

“The Emperor’s New Clouds” are simply Corporate Server Machines,
prone to the same weaknesses, attacks and accidents as the device
upon which you are reading this, right now. What Total Idiocy!

Any fool stupid enough to store sensitive information upon a server
they do not understand, control or own is incompetent and deluded.

Welcome to the reality of cloud computing, where everybody’s shackled to some big company’s server farm and if it goes down, everyone’s screwed. Now imagine what will happen when someone does to AWS what Anonymous did to the Playstation Network. Think about this next time some clueless tech evangelist is babbling about how great it would be if everyone had a thin client and all their applications and data “live in the cloud.”

Looks like these companies don’t believe in Backup Data Facilities (BDF).

I retired from a bank and we had a PROFESSIONAL IT shop. We even tested our ability to go to BDF every month.

So much of the robustness of cloud computing.
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Snowy
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said by Name Game:

I retired from a bank and we had a PROFESSIONAL IT shop. We even tested our ability to go to BDF every month.

4 questions
If that's your quote rather than one of the other un-cited quotes, how did they survive the recent banking crisis?
1. Did they get bought out, take Gov't bailout funds etc...?

2. Back to netflix, could their solvency survive owning & maintaining their own data center with a PROFESSIONAL IT shop with their current pricing structure?

3. How many additional subscriptions would they realize by eliminating their cloud dependency?

4. How much would the average customer be willing to pay each month for this added reliability?

So much for the robustness of your argument (if that's your quote)


Oregonian
Premium
join:2000-12-21
West Linn, OR
reply to Name Game
I'm surprised that the guaranteed uptime of Amazon's cloud services is only 99.95%. If I am running a business which relies solely on Amazon cloud services (hello NetFlix) then I would demand uptime of 4 or 5 nines reliability.


jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
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reply to Name Game
Admittedly, I am more than uneducated on this score, but it would seem to me, redundant or not, if there's a power outage, which is clearly caused by Mother Nature, would it even matter? How can any company(s) outwit Mother Nature? Even insurance companies disallow natural disaster causes for claims. Wouldn't guaranteed uptime be somewhat the same and would not be covered under these circumstances?
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

1 recommendation

Yup even "DC to be dark for days "

»www.washingtonpost.com/local/pow···?hpid=z1


Name Game
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Grand Rapids, MI
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reply to Snowy
None my quotes snowy..all are un-cited responses to the article.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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Galt's Gulch
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reply to Name Game
said by Name Game:

Yup even "DC to be dark for days "

And why is that a bad thing?
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
said by StuartMW:

said by Name Game:

Yup even "DC to be dark for days "

And why is that a bad thing?

Because we still have to pay the bums..hey Bob is trying to mess with my router in the clouds.

»Linksys firmware upgrade for Wi-Fi routers angers some users
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jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
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reply to Name Game
Wonder what's going on in the dark?


StuartMW
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1 recommendation

said by jaykaykay:

Wonder what's going on in the dark?

The same thing as always. They're screwing but we're the ones being screwed
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Snowy
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reply to Name Game
said by Name Game:

None my quotes snowy..all are un-cited responses to the article.

Here's how I saw it.
You started the thread with this question.
"Can you trust Cloud for Security and Redundancy"
After not receiving any post replies that were damning enough about the clouds security & redundancy you post
"A few comments found on the net about this incident...
which happen to be one sided, selected quotes all of which slam the cloud.
That looks like an agenda to me.
If you're anti-cloud, that's fine by me, just don't try to astroturf it.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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reply to Name Game
said by Name Game:

hey Bob is trying to mess with my router in the clouds.



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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to Snowy
said by Snowy:

said by Name Game:

None my quotes snowy..all are un-cited responses to the article.

Here's how I saw it.
You started the thread with this question.
"Can you trust Cloud for Security and Redundancy"
After not receiving any post replies that were damning enough about the clouds security & redundancy you post
"A few comments found on the net about this incident...
which happen to be one sided, selected quotes all of which slam the cloud.
That looks like an agenda to me.
If you're anti-cloud, that's fine by me, just don't try to astroturf it.

They are all found here..
»www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosn···th-it/2/

Did not find a single comment pro-cloud..as for me..I do not think it is ready for prime time...did not expect you to start commenting on each one..The three little pigs did leave some questions...properly planned structure are fine..while the big bad wolf blew till he was red in the face..a few weasels dug a hole under the super structure and controlled all the action.

»news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10413951-83.html

Not many paid attention to the Kneber bot net or even knew about it.
»vmblog.com/archive/2010/03/01/bo···lam.aspx

Are you pro-cloud ?
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Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
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reply to Name Game
If your data is on a cloud, it's not yours anymore. Why do it?
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dave
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reply to StuartMW
Well, if we're playing that game

When asked for comment on the Amazon EC2 outage, Netflix had this to say:
quote:
b; I've looked at clouds from both sides now
From up and down, and still somehow
It's cloud illusions I recall
I really don't know clouds at all. b;



fush noodles

@optonline.net
reply to Name Game
i don't think you can trust the cloud for security....


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
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said by fush noodles :

i don't think you can trust the cloud...

FIFY.
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Name Game
Premium
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Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to fush noodles
said by fush noodles :

i don't think you can trust the cloud for security....

I feel the same way..great for entertainment stuff..and many other applications..but when they want to use cloud in the the breath with privacy and security..my trigger finger starts to itch.

I think bad stuff in the cloud could do lots of damage out there fast..too fast infact for my blood..and I think bad stuff could remain there undetected.
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Snowy
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reply to Name Game
said by Name Game:

Are you pro-cloud ?

With regards to a service such as netflix (the major issue cited in this thread) I'm not sure how they'd do it without the cloud so yeah, in that respect I'm pro cloud because I'm pro netflix.
Am I blindly pro cloud?
I'm not blindly pro anything.


Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
Understand..well I was really interested in the Title of the thread..Security and redundancy for cloud which everyone seems to be preaching these days.

Back in 2011..when Dublin when out..Amazon painfully got back the cloud in ways that almost parallel what Justin and crew had to go through to get DSLR back up..and at that time they claimed redundancy was going to be the byword.

Amazon promises to improve cloud computing redundancy after Dublin outage
Problem may been with utility provider rather than a lightning strike
16 August 2011
Amazon Web Services (AWS) will work to improve power redundancy, load balancing and the way it communicates when something goes wrong with its cloud, following the outage that affected its Dublin data centre.

A post mortem delved deeper into what caused the outage, which affected the availability of Amazon's EC2 (Elastic Compute Cloud), EBS (Elastic Block Store), the RDS database and Amazon's network. The service disruption began Aug. 7, at 10:41 a.m., when Amazon's utility provider suffered a transformer failure.

Related Articles

Amazon says poorly executed, planned upgrade caused massive cloud outage
A warning to us all... >>
Amazon investigates after cloud nightmare
Cloud service largely back up after major outage >>
How to reduce the risk of cloud service failure
Cloud computing and seven tips on how to enhance its reliability >>

At first, a lightning strike was blamed, but the provider now believes it actually wasn't the cause, and is continuing to investigate, according to Amazon.

The service that caused Amazon the biggest problem was EBS, which is used to store data for EC2 instances. The service replicates volume data across a set of nodes for durability and availability. Following the outage the nodes started talking to each other to replicate changes. Amazon has spare capacity to allow for this, but the sheer amount of traffic proved too much this time.

When all nodes related to one volume lost power, Amazon in some cases had to re-create the data by putting together a recovery snapshot. The process of producing these snapshots was time-consuming, because Amazon had to move all of the data to Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3), process it, turn it into the snapshot storage format and then make the data accessible from a user's account.

By 8:25 p.m. PDT on Aug. 10, 98 percent of the recovery snapshots had been delivered, with the remaining few requiring manual attention, Amazon said.

For EBS, Amazon's goal will be to drastically reduce the recovery time after a significant outage. It will, for example, create the capability to recover volumes directly on the EBS servers upon restoration of power, without having to move the data elsewhere.

»www.computerworlduk.com/news/clo···-outage/

And after Redundancy you must have a Seamless Transition.

»www.slideshare.net/ConsonusTech/···recovery

»www.telecomassociation.com/vendo···0309.htm
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Snowy
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said by Name Game:

Understand..well I was really interested in the Title of the thread..Security and redundancy for cloud which everyone seems to be preaching these days.

KAILUA, HI (S1N) NEWS FLASH
The panacea for delivering content hasn't been developed yet.


Oregonian
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West Linn, OR
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reply to Name Game
said by Name Game:

A post mortem delved deeper into what caused the outage, which affected the availability of Amazon's EC2 (Elastic Compute Cloud), EBS (Elastic Block Store), the RDS database and Amazon's network. The service disruption began Aug. 7, at 10:41 a.m., when Amazon's utility provider suffered a transformer failure.

There's your problem, right there...too much elastic. Prolly got old and wore out.


Robotics
See You On The Dark Side
Premium
join:2003-10-23
Louisa, VA
reply to Name Game
To answer the op's question; Can you trust Cloud for Security and Redundancy?

My answer is no. The name alone "cloud" makes me laugh.

(not directed to the op)
Call me old school, or whatever else.
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and all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.