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gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.

[HN7000S] Proper Rate Code ?

Click for full size
What should the proper rate code be for HN700s, 91W 985
My plan is Pro-Plus. I guess I question the 1/2 rate.


grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

Yeah, you should be operating at least 2/3 rate, ideally 4/5. The Stream Error Rate indicates an increased transmission error percentage. Rain is the most common reason. But when the rain's over, the errors return to normal. I doubt it's been raining there for 12 days straight, so the most common mechanical reason is a POL angle in need of optimization. Second most common is sub-standard cable path, third is failing transmitter. Other things can cause it too, but are less common; bent feed arm, distorted/warped reflector, bugs in the feed path, etc.

//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.

Wouldn't be surprised at the ODU going bad. The dish has been up there since May of 2004 as a DW6000 install and never been touched.
Things are still working OK, may wait for Gen4 before I put any money in it.
Thanks for the reply



dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa
kudos:5

Have you tried a forced range to see if it will change?



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.

Have you tried a forced range to see if it will change?
Not yet Don, any chance I could mess things up by doing so ?


Kaosfury

join:2011-06-27
Altavista, VA
reply to gwalk

force ranging will only mess things up if your system is unable to transmit.

but sometimes, when a system is working, just working poorly, making the system "force range" will request a update to the system timing and code rate adjustment if one can be made.

so if you are having transmission issues... force range it!



dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa
kudos:5
reply to gwalk

Just to be clear, Kaosfury's first sentence made it sound like there IS a way that forcing a range can mess things up. There is no such way.

Forced ranging will fail if your system can't transmit, but even in that case the attempt to range will in no way harm things. Things would, in that circumstance, be dead in the water already.

So Force Range away. Can't hurt, may possibly help.
--
Motosat self-pointing dishes: 1.2-meter XF-3 on 93W, .74 meter G74 on 127W, SL-5 HD DirecTV|idirect 3100|Hughes HN7000S|Verizon UMW190 Air Card|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge Bus "Blue Thunder"|Author of hnFAP-Alert, PC-OPI and DSSatTool



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.
reply to gwalk

OK, thanks. I will do that. Thunder storm right now, wait for clear sky.



grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
reply to Kaosfury

said by Kaosfury:

force ranging will only mess things up if your system is unable to transmit.

but sometimes, when a system is working, just working poorly, making the system "force range" will request a update to the system timing and code rate adjustment if one can be made.

so if you are having transmission issues... force range it!

Further to what Don wrote, I too agree with the last line only. The only thing forced ranging does is obtain fresh T&D data (time and distance to satellite). Accurate T&D is required to (re)acquire network timing. Further, forced ranging is possible only when there is a valid RX signal AND an operational transmitter. Short of that, an error indication will be returned.

That said, power cycling the modem can under some circumstances make it appear to revive what appears to be an inop transmitter. But given the (minimum) 12 day duration of the OP issue - if power cycling and reranging don't improve the rate code - see my original diagnosis.

//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012


gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.
reply to gwalk

Click for full size
Didn't seem to help. Will try a restart next.


grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

Just so you know for the future, T&D ranging happens automatically every time the modem is cycled; whether by a simple restart or with a power down restart. "Forced" ranging is how you do it without cycling.

//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012



dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa
kudos:5
reply to grohgreg

said by grohgreg:

The only thing forced ranging does is obtain fresh T&D data (time and distance to satellite).

That is the textbook definition of ranging, but it is not true that nothing else happens during a range (forced or not).

Hughes always recalculates/resets transmission power requirements and rate codes during a range, something that technically has nothing to do with T&D, but it is the place they chose to stuck the process in.

If in doubt that this is true, bring up the ranging statistics page, set (at the top) a 1-second refresh rate, and then click the force link. Watch the procedure happen in real time.
--
Motosat self-pointing dishes: 1.2-meter XF-3 on 93W, .74 meter G74 on 127W, SL-5 HD DirecTV|idirect 3100|Hughes HN7000S|Verizon UMW190 Air Card|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge Bus "Blue Thunder"|Author of hnFAP-Alert, PC-OPI and DSSatTool


grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

You been hangin' around DrStrange again Don? Cuz it seems his nit-picking might be contagious. But at least yours is educated. That said, I didn't think I needed to qualify my ranging statement as being from the perspective of the subscriber. Guess I thought wrong.

//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012



dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
usa
kudos:5

Hmm. I thought I clearly explained how to see the power part of ranging process from the perspective of the subscriber?

The implication of your earlier posts was that ranging could not/would not have any effect on rate codes. I can't say it would, but I can say it certainly could, since it is the process where all available codes are determined.
--
Motosat self-pointing dishes: 1.2-meter XF-3 on 93W, .74 meter G74 on 127W, SL-5 HD DirecTV|idirect 3100|Hughes HN7000S|Verizon UMW190 Air Card|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge Bus "Blue Thunder"|Author of hnFAP-Alert, PC-OPI and DSSatTool



grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

1 edit

And I stand by that statement. The "power" part is coincident, simply because network sync is necessarily dropped in the initial stage of forced ranging. After collecting and storing fresh T&D data, network sync then must be recovered. The modem does this each and every time it's restarted or power cycled. If it were possible to view the ranging statistics page during a restart/power cycle, you'd see the very same thing happening. First ranging, then Rate Code determination.

And I'm not sure you grasp the implication of "power" in this case. Unlike the Wildblue adaptive output power approach, Hughes uses adaptive modulation and coding. In this method, the transmitter radiate at a fixed output power. It's the modulation type and FEC rates that adapt to changing propagation characteristics. Each rate code has a different symbol rate. Data rate remains constant, symbol rate changes. During this process, authorized rate codes are tested to determine power per symbol. That means how much of that 2 watts each symbol bit is allocated. The rate producing the most advantageous power per symbol is then locked in and held until propagation conditions change.

So in the end, forced ranging itself has nothing to do with the Rate Code. But after completion, the subsequent network recovery process includes determining the currently opportune Rate Code.

//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.
reply to gwalk

No change after rebooting the modem.
After 8 years I'm surprised it hasn't rolled over before this.

I will be looking at Gen4 as more info becomes known.

I would like to thank the both of you for all the insight and knowledge you have shared these past years.



grohgreg
Dunno. Ask The Chief

join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY

Ok. Have you given consideration to the possibility that something has changed the pointing angles over the years? As with an aging transmitter, the angles may change with time as well. A quick no-cost check is to perform the simple push/pull test.

//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012



gwalk
Premium
join:2005-07-27
West Mich.
reply to gwalk

Didn't think to do that (duh).
Signal strength is better than ever since the old G11 was swapped out.
Used to be 60-62, now in the low 70s with clear sky
Worth a try tho...was just outside and it was a smoking 98'. Think I'll wait for it to be a bit cooler before climbing up on the roof.
Funny how the older you get the narrower your comfort zone gets.