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tmh

@verizon.net
reply to Badonkadonk

Re: What country are sharp window air conditioners made?

said by Badonkadonk:

I am and I earned it. This whole generic 1%-ers are evil thing is so misguided. I don't know when an why this country stopped being anti-success.

I don't begrudge any of the 1% their success.

It's funny. When I first heard the media use the concept of the 1%, my very first thought wasn't about how unfair this all is. Rather, it was "Okay, now what does it take to be the 1%"?

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Badonkadonk

said by Badonkadonk:

I wish I cared, but I really don't. Everyone has to make their own way through the world and make their own choices. I've made mine. You've made yours.

My point was that those OWS cretins can suck it if they want handouts. Until they work for something rather than just whine and complain, they can hang for all I care.

You certainly have made your choices. You've made your choice to lie down with dogs, so don't be surprised when you get fleas. Remember - you've been warned!

And about those "OWS cretins": While I don't necessarily agree with everything they say or everything they do, in the vernacular their activities (and the activities of others before them) are what is known as "foreshadowing". Historically, the "haves" (even if they came by it honestly) have been vastly outnumbered by the "have-nots". And if the haves do things to make the situation worse, or if they simply choose to ignore the have-nots, then before long the masses rise up and just take what they want, usually in the bloodiest of fashions. This has happened a great many times throughout history, and you ignore this lesson at your own peril. (It would be very Darwinian if you did, though.)

Even the lying corporate VP that I mentioned earlier knew this, because it was one of the things that actively scared him. He had talked about precisely this scenario before, while discussing tough economic times and the general misfortune of other companies, some of which we acquired. He was shaking like a leaf as he gave each of us our individual walking papers (mine were quite generous, thank you very much), and there were several people who picked up on this and toyed with him a bit. Unfortunately for him, unlike the CFO who showed up to give us the initial bad news en masse, this particular VP wasn't deemed worthy by corporate of having a personal security guard, so he had to deal with each of us individually, all alone, face-to-face. It didn't help that he had been "friendly" with some of the female employees (this was quite common within the management ranks, as it turns out - even among the very top brass, who should have known better), so they were able to blackmail him and negotiate even more generous severance packages (God bless 'em).

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to tmh

said by tmh :

said by Badonkadonk:

I am and I earned it. This whole generic 1%-ers are evil thing is so misguided. I don't know when an why this country stopped being anti-success.

I don't begrudge any of the 1% their success.

It's funny. When I first heard the media use the concept of the 1%, my very first thought wasn't about how unfair this all is. Rather, it was "Okay, now what does it take to be the 1%"?

Exactly right. That's the attitude that's been lost and which helped propel this country to success. Now, success is a dirty word and something apparently to be ashamed of. We've become apologists and handout seekers instead of dreamers and innovators.

said by scross:

You certainly have made your choices. You've made your choice to lie down with dogs, so don't be surprised when you get fleas. Remember - you've been warned!

And about those "OWS cretins": While I don't necessarily agree with everything they say or everything they do, in the vernacular their activities (and the activities of others before them) are what is known as "foreshadowing". Historically, the "haves" (even if they came by it honestly) have been vastly outnumbered by the "have-nots". And if the haves do things to make the situation worse, or if they simply choose to ignore the have-nots, then before long the masses rise up and just take what they want, usually in the bloodiest of fashions. This has happened a great many times throughout history, and you ignore this lesson at your own peril. (It would be very Darwinian if you did, though.)

Lying down with the dogs? Because I've worked hard and found success? Thanks for the warning. Kind of scary, but I think I'll just keep on keeping on. I'm not nearly an E or C level employee, so I don't think the villagers are planning on burning down my castle any time soon.
--
I spent the last two years of high school in a daze. I . . . tried drugs enthusiastically. --Barack "Choomer-in-Chief" Obama. I'm so proud of our prez.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 recommendation

said by Badonkadonk:

said by tmh :

said by Badonkadonk:

I am and I earned it. This whole generic 1%-ers are evil thing is so misguided. I don't know when an why this country stopped being anti-success.

I don't begrudge any of the 1% their success.

It's funny. When I first heard the media use the concept of the 1%, my very first thought wasn't about how unfair this all is. Rather, it was "Okay, now what does it take to be the 1%"?

Exactly right. That's the attitude that's been lost and which helped propel this country to success. Now, success is a dirty word and something apparently to be ashamed of. We've become apologists and handout seekers instead of dreamers and innovators.

said by scross:

You certainly have made your choices. You've made your choice to lie down with dogs, so don't be surprised when you get fleas. Remember - you've been warned!

And about those "OWS cretins": While I don't necessarily agree with everything they say or everything they do, in the vernacular their activities (and the activities of others before them) are what is known as "foreshadowing". Historically, the "haves" (even if they came by it honestly) have been vastly outnumbered by the "have-nots". And if the haves do things to make the situation worse, or if they simply choose to ignore the have-nots, then before long the masses rise up and just take what they want, usually in the bloodiest of fashions. This has happened a great many times throughout history, and you ignore this lesson at your own peril. (It would be very Darwinian if you did, though.)

Lying down with the dogs? Because I've worked hard and found success? Thanks for the warning. Kind of scary, but I think I'll just keep on keeping on. I'm not nearly an E or C level employee, so I don't think the villagers are planning on burning down my castle any time soon.

From the sounds of it your company is now lying down with the dogs of Wall Street, and while everyone there may be happy about that right now, even "amazed" (Really, dude, I cringed so hard for you when I read that!), I can pretty much guarantee that you will come to regret this in short order. I could give you some details of what to look out for, and I may do that a bit later, but the key idea here is that Wall Street always wants "more". Your company may start off doing relatively smart things (cutting the fat, as it were, and tightening up its accounting and supply chains and so on), but before long at the Street's insistence they'll be cutting into muscle, and then into bone, because that makes the bottom line look better in the short term and keeps Wall Street happy. And there are ways (very tempting ways, and very successful for Wall Street) of letting them get almost total control of your stock, and then almost total control of your C-level and other executives, to the point where they dance for Wall Street like so many marionettes. And when they've decimated your company and wrung everything they can out of it, they'll just turn around and dump it, maybe letting it get chopped up and sold off by pieces in the process. And no matter where you are in the food chain, you're generally not immune to the effects of this.

(I really wish now you would tell us who you work for, because the playbook for this manipulation is so set that I could make some pretty good profits out of your company's stock as it continues to rise (maybe) and then inevitably falls back down again.)

And about that "success": The myth (although of course there is still some truth to it), if that if you study hard, and you work hard, and you are maybe reasonably lucky (health-wise and so on), then you will get a good job and be financially successful and have a happy life and a happy retirement. I don't know if this has ever been as true as we think it was, but there plenty enough people who've followed pretty much this track over the years and have been happy with it, at least up until now. And it is certainly generally true that slackers don't succeed, although there are plenty of exceptions to this rule, too, for people who were maybe born into privilege or have privileged connections or who maybe pick certain career paths (legal or otherwise).

But many "hard-working and successful people" are now finding that their careers are gone, their savings are gone, their retirement is gone, their youth and health are gone, and so on. And their kids and their grandkids have noticed this, too, and have realized that, not only are many opportunities gone for them now, but even if they were able to take them then they might end up getting just as screwed in the end, and many of these young people are who you now see out in the streets in protest.

And protesting itself isn't new (there have always been protests in this country and elsewhere), but what is new (or so it seems) is a general willingness on the part of the media and the general public to just dismiss the concerns of these protesters out of hand, or even to intentionally distort their concerns to the public, as if they are non-issues that will simply go away if they are ignored long enough. And they may soon find, as so many others have found before them, that this is not at all true.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

That was a funny post. You have no clue about my company and yet you know all about its certain demise. Very cool.

I don't worry about the company getting chopped up and sold off in pieces. That doesn't affect me. Many of the things that you described don't apply to us because of the structure of the company. So many of your doomsday scenarios are laughable. Also, I have a one year termination clause, so I don't worry too much personally.

Plenty of jobs out there for what I do and for the experience I have.
--
I spent the last two years of high school in a daze. I . . . tried drugs enthusiastically. --Barack "Choomer-in-Chief" Obama. I'm so proud of our prez.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by Badonkadonk:

That was a funny post. You have no clue about my company and yet you know all about its certain demise. Very cool.

I don't worry about the company getting chopped up and sold off in pieces. That doesn't affect me. Many of the things that you described don't apply to us because of the structure of the company. So many of your doomsday scenarios are laughable. Also, I have a one year termination clause, so I don't worry too much personally.

Plenty of jobs out there for what I do and for the experience I have.

Friend, dear friend Goober. (May I call you Goober? The name certainly seems to fit!) I don't really need to know much about your company (other than the name; I really do want to play your stock), because I know all I need to know right now, which is that they're dancing to the tune that Wall Street is playing for them. And, despite your protestations to the contrary, if you stick around this will most definitely affect you at some point. I was very serious when I said that there is a playbook for this, and while it might vary a bit from year to year and company to company, by-and-large it follows a tried-and-true formula. I could give you a blow-by-blow account of what will probably transpire, and how it may effect your personal life and finances, but since you don't seem too interested then I think I'll just let you discover that for yourself.

You say that there are plenty of jobs out there; good for you! But keep your network open and maybe start looking at some of those other jobs right now, because you may find that you need one of them (or at least want one of them) much sooner than you might think.

What I've given you here is "fair warning"; what you've given me back is "denial" (something that I've seen plenty of before). But when things start to go south, and you start feeling very uncomfortable, and you start having trouble sleeping at night, promise me that you'll remember that we had this little conversation, and get out while you still can, if you still can.

That is all. Take care and have a safe drive home!

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 recommendation

Ahh, now career advice! I assume you are uniquely qualified to give someone like me some pointers. I'm humbled, grateful and amazed by your business prowess.

Funny stuff. Mind if I call you Carnac?
--
I spent the last two years of high school in a daze. I . . . tried drugs enthusiastically. --Barack "Choomer-in-Chief" Obama. I'm so proud of our prez.


Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
reply to nonamesleft

So simple! Where wages are lowest and employees will work unlimited overtime without additional compensation.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

2 edits

I think we'll be seeing an influx of Made in Vietnam over the next few years. That's the next LC manufacturing country that seems to be coming up through the ranks.
--
Alright Apple fans! Introducing the DOA 7" iPad Mini. Ships with sandpaper to shave off your thumbs to 1/4 their size.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

I suspect that the real future of manufacturing belongs to whomever can implement automated processes in the fastest and most flexible manner - fast changeovers, quick fulfillment of orders, and so on. Doing this in a big way requires a relatively highly-skilled work force and a high-quality infrastructure, which most second- and third-world countries simply don't have (even if they like to pretend that they do). Some first-world countries aren't doing a particularly good job of maintaining their advantage in these areas, either.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by scross:

I suspect that the real future of manufacturing belongs to whomever can implement automated processes in the fastest and most flexible manner - fast changeovers, quick fulfillment of orders, and so on. Doing this in a big way requires a relatively highly-skilled work force and a high-quality infrastructure, which most second- and third-world countries simply don't have (even if they like to pretend that they do). Some first-world countries aren't doing a particularly good job of maintaining their advantage in these areas, either.

The U.S. being one of the countries that is and has been in a downward free-fall. The world economy has little use for the glut of lawyers we seem to be only able to produce.

Half of new graduates are jobless or underemployed

Young adults with bachelor's degrees are increasingly scraping by in lower-wage jobs — waiter or waitress, bartender, retail clerk or receptionist, for example

Obama, Romney and other politicians keep promising restoring the middle class. Not going to happen and they know it. We have millions that there is no hope of any meaningful employment with a living wage and benefits. These millions most likely will not even come close to having what their parents achieved.

It's more or less over for the U.S. and anyone who doesn't see it isn't looking or is in denial.


UHF
All static, all day, Forever
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
Reviews:
·Mediacom
·Callcentric
·Dish Network

said by Jack_in_VA:

Young adults with bachelor's degrees are increasingly scraping by in lower-wage jobs; waiter or waitress, bartender, retail clerk or receptionist, for example

The world is now flat. We're not competing with our next door neighbors for jobs, we're competing with other nations.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by UHF:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Young adults with bachelor's degrees are increasingly scraping by in lower-wage jobs; waiter or waitress, bartender, retail clerk or receptionist, for example

The world is now flat. We're not competing with our next door neighbors for jobs, we're competing with other nations.

Exactly and we're not ever going to be able to provide meaningful jobs for the millions that used to work in the large factories and the small textile, furniture and other factories scatted across the country in the rural areas.

So the question is what do we do about them? Welfare, food stamps, housing? In other words are the ones actually working in the private sector going to be required to "take care of them"?

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

Hence the argument for education.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by Badonkadonk:

Hence the argument for education.

Hence the argument for education reform. The educational system which has worked so well for us over the last several generations has to be modified to match the current reality, because the current reality does not match the reality of the last several generations.

We certainly don't need to be sending a ton of kids through four or more years of college if all they are ultimately going to end up doing is service jobs of various sorts, and trying to pay off major college debt with these jobs. This is true even if they are going to end up building and maintaining robots. Designing robots, maybe, as this is a multi-disciplinary endeavor. But even then they might do just fine with a specialized two-year degree or something, at least for starters.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 recommendation

That's the problem. We need to aim higher. This whole, "Well, shoot, I should be able to get a job pushing pieces on an off a production line," mentality needs to go away.

I've never seen such a bunch of hangers-on to an old outmoded way of thinking. No wonder we're losing . . .
--
Alright Apple fans! Introducing the DOA 7" iPad Mini. Ships with sandpaper to shave off your thumbs to 1/4 their size.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by Badonkadonk:

That's the problem. We need to aim higher. This whole, "Well, shoot, I should be able to get a job pushing pieces on an off a production line," mentality needs to go away.

I've never seen such a bunch of hangers-on to an old outmoded way of thinking. No wonder we're losing . . .

Just how many "ROBOT" designers do you think we can educate and train before the field becomes so saturated and diluted that they become a "dime a dozen"?

Saw it happen many times over. Keypunch operators, IT Techs etc.

Bottom line is people still will be employed in factories pushing pieces on/off a production line like the auto industry. Only not as many which causes more unemployment and will ultimately result in social discontent that you refuse to acknowledge. When the millions of citizens with no jobs and no hope see the few living a cushy lifestyle designing robots look out. The one percent factor.


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to scross

said by scross:

I suspect that the real future of manufacturing belongs to whomever can implement automated processes in the fastest and most flexible manner - fast changeovers, quick fulfillment of orders, and so on. Doing this in a big way requires a relatively highly-skilled work force and a high-quality infrastructure...

Honda, and I'm sure others, do this here in Ohio. They can build one model, say the Accord, on first shift and switch to building the Civic on second shift.

Their suppliers have pretty extreme demands as well. With an item like seats, Honda tells them which ones and how many they need for today's 3rd shift. So, that supplier builds those on their 1st or 2nd shifts, delivers them, and within hours, they're installed and in a finished car.


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

BMW is getting quite good at this in Georgia as well. Building inthe US is cheaper than building in Germany then shipping across the ocean.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Badonkadonk:

That's the problem. We need to aim higher. This whole, "Well, shoot, I should be able to get a job pushing pieces on an off a production line," mentality needs to go away.

I've never seen such a bunch of hangers-on to an old outmoded way of thinking. No wonder we're losing . . .

Just how many "ROBOT" designers do you think we can educate and train before the field becomes so saturated and diluted that they become a "dime a dozen"?

Saw it happen many times over. Keypunch operators, IT Techs etc.

Bottom line is people still will be employed in factories pushing pieces on/off a production line like the auto industry. Only not as many which causes more unemployment and will ultimately result in social discontent that you refuse to acknowledge. When the millions of citizens with no jobs and no hope see the few living a cushy lifestyle designing robots look out. The one percent factor.

You're actually proving my point. The Robot designers will typically be EE, MSEE and PhDEE types that can easily shift between technologies. They won't be the keypunch operators and technicians, who are likely to be the ones that get pushed out.

For example, when I came out of school, I worked for the IT department in the company's network design department. My next job was doing chip design. Finally, prior to law school, I thought about changing jobs, and I interviewed with TI. They told me that they wouldn't put me on the microprocessor side but instead would put me in the printer division. That was mostly to prevent trade secret disclosure. So, you can see that people with those types of degrees can be shifted around pretty easily.

Now, on the other hand, if you get a keypunch operator, IT Tech, etc. who's learned very specific skills as a trade, that's all they can do unless they go through some kind of extensive retraining.

See, we come from different worlds. People like you want to scrape by on the least amount of effort possible and with little thought of the future. People like my family and me can't get enough education and can't look out for the future enough. In my father's family (he's one of 5 brothers) all of the kids have advanced degrees. In fact, my father is the least educated with an MS in Mechanical Engineering. The other brothers all have a PhD in either Chemistry, Physics, Material Science or Metallurgy.

In fact, one of the brothers was also an MD. He decided to go to med school when he was in his mid 50s. He'd sold of a successful business at 50, retired and then decided to go to med school as a hobby. Most of my cousins have PhDs as well. The others are chartered accountants and MBAs.

Until people in this country realize that bumping along with the least amount of education possible in order to secure a dead end job is not the path to prosperity, there will be people like you that bitch up and down about those that are successful.

We all make choices in this world. Each of those choices has consequences that reverberate for the rest of our lives. But we should all understand this and realize that as a result of these consequences, we may not get to where someone else did who made different choices.

There are several regrets I have in the choices I made. Had I chosen differently, I could be making more money and probably be more successful. Do I begrudge those who did and are? No. And that's the difference between your type and mine.
--
Alright Apple fans! Introducing the DOA 7" iPad Mini. Ships with sandpaper to shave off your thumbs to 1/4 their size.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

And just what is this difference between my type and you? You are still working and dependent on a paycheck. I was successful enough to retire in 1997 at 55 years old. Been enjoying my life for a number of years now.

You are one of the 1 percent the Occupiers rail about and an elitist on top of it. When they are lowering you 6 feet under you can't take those degrees with you so essentially they are worthless and only an ego booster. There are plenty of very successful people with no degree. Look at Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

said by Jack_in_VA:

And just what is this difference between my type and you?

I advocate education to lift the opportunities of all people. You advocate the least amount of education possible to scrape by.

said by Jack_in_VA:

There are plenty of very successful people with no degree. Look at Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.

Far more successful people with degrees. Remember, Gates dropped out of Harvard.
--
Alright Apple fans! Introducing the DOA 7" iPad Mini. Ships with sandpaper to shave off your thumbs to 1/4 their size.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1

And you are still having to work. That's all I need to know. Retiring at 55 and living very comfortable enjoying life is priceless.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 recommendation

See, again that's the difference between us.

I look at work in a different way than you. Sure, if I wanted to I could retire in another 8 years or so. I'll have plenty of money. But that's not the point. For me, I set certain goals many years ago and I need to achieve those. Among them is getting an MBA. I'd rather the company pay for it than me. So I need to do that. I also need to be at a certain yearly salary level to meet a numerical goal as well. Not that I need it, but it's a number I want to hit. I also need to reach a certain position in my career before I retire. Again, not that I need to, but I want to. And the house. I have a want for a particular kind of house that takes a little more money than the average house. Just like anyone else who has to budget and save, I'll need to do the same.

I'm getting close to every one of my goals and I'll likely hit them by the time I'm 55 (maybe not the MBA, since it's a bit time commitment given young kids at home, hours I work and it won't increase my income). Still doesn't mean I want to stop. I'll just move the goal posts further.

Again, you and I come from different worlds. That's not necessarily good or bad, but yours is not the one I want for myself or my kids. For my kids, I want better. My wife tells me that it's difficult. My answer is that it's not and there are many, many that have succeeded far beyond what I have. I want to make sure my children are aware of their options and how to go about achieving their goals. Regardless of how modest or grand those goals may be, higher education is included, regardless.
--
Alright Apple fans! Introducing the DOA 7" iPad Mini. Ships with sandpaper to shave off your thumbs to 1/4 their size.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1

Goober since you think that I and others who don't subscribe to your beliefs are beneath you I'm done corresponding with you. I truly feel sorry for you.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

It's not beneath me. Never has been. We each have a different value system.

My in-laws and their brothers and sisters were mostly all blue collar (although the vast majority of their kids went to college). Either way, I like them and they like me.

Again, it's the value system that differs. You defend not seeking higher education. On the other hand, my in-laws who didn't have higher education, sacrificed and taught their kids the value of having such.
--
Alright Apple fans! Introducing the DOA 7" iPad Mini. Ships with sandpaper to shave off your thumbs to 1/4 their size.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Badonkadonk

said by Badonkadonk:

I've never seen such a bunch of hangers-on to an old outmoded way of thinking. No wonder we're losing . . .

What an "amazing" thing to say. Here we are, discussing in some detail what we expect needs to change in order to face the challenges of the modern world (and hopefully the near-future), and here you are, defending a system that dates back 125 years or so, and is now outmoded in many ways.

Counselor, please, put some better stuff in your bowl and smoke it!

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

Ahh, the king of out of context commentary. Nice.

Here's the deal. The system may go back 125 years, but it was reserved mostly for the elite. Hence there were few that were able to or allowed to participate. Over the decades, the necessity has arisen where people simply can't go from high school to a good paying (albeit, mindless) factory job. That thinking that one can is what is outmoded.

Bottom line is that education puts people ahead or allows them to pull ahead. Not the words of the ignorant trying to hold back others to their own level because of some latent misguided sense of fear of success.

But you go ahead and try win through semantics and verbal diversion. In the end, all you espouse is holding back the masses from succeeding.

By the way, whatever I've been smoking has been working for me and many hundreds of thousands across this country. Being a loser is for losers.
--
Alright Apple fans! Introducing the DOA 7" iPad Mini. Ships with sandpaper to shave off your thumbs to 1/4 their size.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 recommendation

reply to Badonkadonk

Ah, given your family's history, now we get to the root of the problem - a deep-seated inferiority complex on your part! I know it's tough, bro, but things like this can be great motivators towards success - at least via traditional means. But you may have noted, as many people have, that the most successful people in this world tend not to follow traditional methods (staying in school for ages, then hopefully landing a decent job in the corporate world, where they pretty much languish for the rest of their lives), but instead follow other paths, including possibly just dropping out of the traditional flow. But if it works for you then it works for you, and more power to you.

Just try not to do to yourself what I've seen so many others do - which is to work very hard for your entire school career and adult life (the benefits of your hard work tending to mostly accrue to others), then retire at the ripe old age of 65 or so, with the big house and the nice car and the boat or whatever. Then feel pretty lost and useless because you aren't working any more (since your entire life used to revolve around your work), then maybe drop dead in a few short years because you spent so much time working that you didn't take good care of your health. I've seen this happen enough that it holds no appeal for me; in fact, it happened to my next-door neighbors, both of whom had successful careers, only to have them both retire and for him to be dead in a few short years, and her to die not too much later. I have plenty of other stories like this, too, but I will spare you the details.

And back to a point Jack was making: For every robot designer (or mechanical engineer, or whatever), you may 10x to 100x as many machinists (or whatever) in order to implement those designs, and maybe 100x to 10,000x mechanics (or whatever) in order to install the things and keep them working in good order, over some extended period of time (perhaps decades). (I'm making these numbers up, of course, but the important thing here is the multiplier effect.) And, as you said yourself, an engineer might even bounce around a lot during their career, while the others probably won't as much.

So the real long-term need here (and therefore the real potential shortage) is not at the engineering level, but at the skilled trades-person and lower level. And our education system should reflect that and try to meet those needs. Instead, these days you've got people saying that everybody has to go to college and get their Bachelor's or Master's or PhD or whatever, no matter how long it takes or how much it costs, which is "patently" ridiculous!


Badonkadonk
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Naperville, IL
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We have longevity in the family, so I'm not too concerned. Besides, if I die early, it's not like I'd care anyway.

Aim low, shoot low, stay low. I'll pass.
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