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mityfowl
Premium Member
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

1 recommendation

mityfowl to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA

Re: What country are sharp window air conditioners made?

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by 67845017:

said by CylonRed:

In the early to middle 70's they were crap. Even to the late 70's they were still pretty crappy. They then had the right cars for the time with the fuel issues and at the right price compared to their competition.

Man, those early Japanese cars were rust buckets. What a joke they were. Obviously the joke was on us, since they they've been laughing all the way to the bank for some time now.

Rust buckets and underpowered. What a joke.

I had one Toyota a 1990 pickup we inherited when my FIL died. That was the first and "LAST" Toyota I'll ever have in my driveway.

I had a 1990 either Toyota or Nissan that I retired with 290K miles. It sure helped my little start up company.
mityfowl

mityfowl to nonamesleft

Premium Member

to nonamesleft
Its funny but I can remember every car I've owned since I was 16. I can't remember this little pick up.
WareWolF2k
join:2000-11-14
Allentown, PA

WareWolF2k to dogma

Member

to dogma
I went to the web site for that $1800 washer and they also have washers that start at $1299 in white, comparable to the price of a decent washer from the major brands. You can't compare a top of the line stainless steel commercial washer to a $500 bestbuy special. If I was in the market for a washer I would consider this brand.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

You could buy 2 $500 Best Buy Specials and have $299 left over. It's a matter of economics.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross to Hall

Member

to Hall
said by Hall:

How long before robots build other robots ? Then they take over everything ?

"And I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords!"

dogma
XYZ
Premium Member
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV

dogma to WareWolF2k

Premium Member

to WareWolF2k
said by WareWolF2k:

If I was in the market for a washer I would consider this brand.

said by Jack_in_VA:

You could buy 2 $500 Best Buy Specials and have $299 left over. It's a matter of economics.

...so I am carefully considering the business model that would make both WareWolF2k See Profile & Jack_in_VA See Profile happy. But it's a win/win-lose/lose proposition no matter how I attempt to slice and dice it.

Assuming Stabler has a better engineered mousetrap, how do they go from a very small, one-off shop to a large competitor in the marketplace?

To have mass appeal, they need to compete at a price point that the big box stores will carry, and the global consumer will find value in (Jack_in_VA See Profile's statement is the way consumers think). In order to do that, they must mass produce on a large scale - which would bring the price per unit down by 60% or more, since big box wants to buy wholesale for $300 and sell retail for $600.

To mass produce they have two choices. Borrow a massive amount of $$$ or get an investor(s) to pony up a massive amount of capital to build a high volume manufacturing plant in Ohio.

The odds of this happening are almost impossible. As risk capital for a company like this is virtually nonexistent. There is no bank that will loan them a few hundred million as they don't have the security (collateral), or cash flow to justify it. An investor may come in, but the new manufacturing facility would have to be almost totally automated...resulting in no net new jobs created other than the construction of the plant, and the purchase of the robots.

More than likely, any investor worth their salt, would demand all manufacturing be done by the lowest bidding 3rd party to minimize their financial risk. And that would be in China.

This is exactly what happened to Dyson vacuum (Interestingly enough, Dyson, although known for vacuums, also makes washing machines ). Originally manufactured in Malmesbury, Wiltshire (England) up until 2002. In 2002, they moved their vacuum cleaner production to Malaysia...as well as their washing machine production.

So Stabler as a company could win...like Dyson, but American workers would absolutely lose.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

Stabler Washer Consumer Complaints & Reviews

A product priced as high over most other brands should not be having the problems listed. Leads me to believe it's more hype than actual value. Stainless steel in itself does not indicate a superior product.

UHF
All static, all day, Forever
MVM
join:2002-05-24

UHF to dogma

MVM

to dogma
said by dogma:

An investor may come in, but the new manufacturing facility would have to be almost totally automated...resulting in no net new jobs created other than the construction of the plant, and the purchase of the robots.

But in politician speak, that's jobs created! Somehow, in their minds, construction = new jobs. Even though they are temporary.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05 to Subaru

Member

to Subaru
said by Subaru:

So you let a very old Toyota model change your judgement?

Them and Honda have always been overrated, IMHO.

Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium Member
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT

Subaru

Premium Member

well I can't say for both since I never owned both long term.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed to itguy05

MVM

to itguy05
Having owned Honda (several of them) I find they are not the least bit overrated. my '89 Civic hatchback is plainly the best car I ever owned.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

I don't think they're overrated either. My family has mostly owned Japanese cars and have been very happy. The few deviations into American car territory have not gone well.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA to Subaru

Premium Member

to Subaru
said by Subaru:

So you let a very old Toyota model change your judgement?

Very old? It was 2 years old when my FIL died. That's not old.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05 to Hall

Member

to Hall
said by Hall:

Whirlpool claims to have (9) manufacturing sites in the US, »www.howtobuyamerican.com ··· 30.shtml. Not to be a skeptic, but as I mentioned above, do they really just "assemble" them here ? Are all, or at least a majority, of the parts US-made as well ?

What we found when we were fridge shopping in April of this year was most in the average (under $1500 range) were made in Mexico. It was hard to find a brand not made in Mexico in this price range. Whirlpool, Maytag, GE, etc, all "Hecho in Mexico". It wasn't until you got to the almost $2000 range that they were made in the USA.

We ended up with a nice Samsung also "Hecho in Mexico".
itguy05

itguy05 to CylonRed

Member

to CylonRed
said by CylonRed:

Having owned Honda (several of them) I find they are not the least bit overrated. my '89 Civic hatchback is plainly the best car I ever owned.

I could argue my '86 Mustang was the best car I ever owned too. Survived a new driver for well over 100k and still ran perfect when I got rid of it at 175k. And that was a crappy Ford 4-speed stick and a 2.3L 4 banger from the Pinto!

But if you look at it objectively, Honda and Toyota have plenty of issues and have throughout their history. It's just people wanted to look through them because they were "superior". I've read reviews where people love their Odysseys despite being on their 3rd-4th transmission at around 100-120k. Same with Acuras and other V6 Hondas. Really? That's "quality"?

Same as some Toyota owners with sludging/sludged engines.

If you're constantly told something is superior you will most likely gloss over the issues as it's superior and if it's doing it, how much worse would the others be?

I'd say a car that's on it's 3rd transmission in 120k is a POS. Even my wife's 03 Escape with the "famous" C4DE shifts perfect at 110k.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

n=1 isn't really a good measure. Your anecdotal evidence isn't enough to really change the general truth, no matter how vehemently you protest.

As it's been reported quite a bit, all the automakers have raised their quality. But the fact remains, historically, the Japanese built better automobiles, which is the reason for their reputation.

No doubt you'll attempt to poo-poo the chart away, but I think it stands on its own, given the thousands of survey responses that Consumer Reports gets.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 recommendation

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by 67845017:

n=1 isn't really a good measure. Your anecdotal evidence isn't enough to really change the general truth, no matter how vehemently you protest.

As it's been reported quite a bit, all the automakers have raised their quality. But the fact remains, historically, the Japanese built better automobiles, which is the reason for their reputation.

No doubt you'll attempt to poo-poo the chart away, but I think it stands on its own, given the thousands of survey responses that Consumer Reports gets.

Yea, my son-in-law is a service manager for a large Lexus dealer. Go ahead tell me how superior Japanese cars are. Especially the High Dollar Japanese Cars.

He drives a Jeep and my daughter a Honda built in Ohio.

If you believe the biased Consumer Reports then you have a problem with accuracy.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05 to 67845017

Member

to 67845017
said by 67845017:

No doubt you'll attempt to poo-poo the chart away, but I think it stands on its own, given the thousands of survey responses that Consumer Reports gets.

So I take it that chart came from CR then? I won't even begin to point out the flaws in their methodology and how it's a very small sample of the overall population that is pretty much self-selected and most likely a certain segment of the population (like Mac users are supposed to only be rich). Those arguments are all overt the web.

And if I bought a car that a "trusted" resource said was the best, I'd not really want to report any issues as after all, the best doesn't have issues....

Nor will I discuss how CR got caught red handed giving Honda and Toyota "passes" by recommending new models without any reliability data to back it up.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

Both of you guys need to learn how to read and take your blinders off. These are surveys filled out by consumers. It has nothing to do with CR's testing bias and it has nothing to do with model recommendations.

Or is it your position that American cars haven't gotten better? Given your responses, that's as equally likely to be true as saying that the Japanese didn't have better cars a decade ago.

You can't have it both ways.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by 67845017:

Both of you guys need to learn how to read and take your blinders off. These are surveys filled out by consumers. It has nothing to do with CR's testing bias and it has nothing to do with model recommendations.

Or is it your position that American cars haven't gotten better? Given your responses, that's as equally likely to be true as saying that the Japanese didn't have better cars a decade ago.

You can't have it both ways.

I get my information human first hand not from a biased magazine that gets under the table money to get better results. Just how do you think CR is able to operate their high dollar enterprise? Not from subscription money.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

lol. Okay. Just make sure you change the tinfoil out every so often. You can get mold in there.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 edit

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member


Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall to itguy05

MVM

to itguy05
said by itguy05:

So I take it that chart came from CR then? I won't even begin to point out the flaws in their methodology...

What source do you use for reliability ratings ?

tmh
@comcastbusiness.net

tmh to dogma

Anon

to dogma
said by dogma:

It was true years ago, but the idea that manufacturing creates jobs is false for the most part now. Be it here or anywhere else in the world.

Correct.

The same held true with agriculture in the early 1900s. Many people have forgotten the transition we experience today is as jolting as when America switched from an agricultural base to a manufacturing one.

As with manufacturing, agriculture became increasingly mechanized to the point that today, we produce considerably more food than we've ever done in the past, but with a fraction of the labor.

Manufacturing will continue in the US, just not widgets that can be made by unskilled/semi-skilled labor. There's a tremendous demand for skilled machinist, and in precision engineering for example. Nobody else in the world can beat us in this.

The question is not whether we should be buying American-made paper products, thumb tacks and spittoons. The question should be: why are we still making this junk?

The long term key to getting to the next step is education. When I see what passes for marketable skills these days, I worry.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed to itguy05

MVM

to itguy05
quote:
I could argue my '86 Mustang was the best car I ever owned too.
And that would be a valid argument to something that is subjective to each person. How many Honda's have you owned personally?

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA to tmh

Premium Member

to tmh
said by tmh :

Manufacturing will continue in the US, just not widgets that can be made by unskilled/semi-skilled labor. There's a tremendous demand for skilled machinist, and in precision engineering for example. Nobody else in the world can beat us in this.

The long term key to getting to the next step is education. When I see what passes for marketable skills these days, I worry.

I hope you really don't believe that to be fact. I would say some in other countries might just dispute you on that.

tmh
@verizon.net

tmh

Anon

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by tmh :

Manufacturing will continue in the US, just not widgets that can be made by unskilled/semi-skilled labor. There's a tremendous demand for skilled machinist, and in precision engineering for example. Nobody else in the world can beat us in this.

The long term key to getting to the next step is education. When I see what passes for marketable skills these days, I worry.

I hope you really don't believe that to be fact. I would say some in other countries might just dispute you on that.

No doubt. There's always room for interpretation, and I'm sure there will be others willing to share their thoughts. That's as it should be. competition is what's keeping us ahead. to harken back to the past is good for reminiscing, but not good for staying ahead.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to 67845017

Member

to 67845017
India and China were communist embargoed back then. Japan was "the" place for outsourcing.
patcat88

patcat88 to Fronkman

Member

to Fronkman
said by Fronkman:

I think it is worth pointing out, though MOST of the Chinese-made stuff is junk, US manufactured goods are not universally superior. Ever drive a Dodge?

No. With american engineering, every piece of sound foam, every liquid seal, door panel trims, plastic and steel gears, frame spot welds, trim ultrasonic plastic welds, and all the paint is FEAed to break at exactly 100,005 +/- 3 miles, exactly after the warranty expires.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to patcat88

Member

to patcat88
What does communist embargoed mean? India has never been a communist country, although they did have some domestic commerce protectionist policies in place.