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67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA

Re: What country are sharp window air conditioners made?

lol. Okay. Just make sure you change the tinfoil out every so often. You can get mold in there.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 edit

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member


Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall to itguy05

MVM

to itguy05
said by itguy05:

So I take it that chart came from CR then? I won't even begin to point out the flaws in their methodology...

What source do you use for reliability ratings ?

tmh
@comcastbusiness.net

tmh to dogma

Anon

to dogma
said by dogma:

It was true years ago, but the idea that manufacturing creates jobs is false for the most part now. Be it here or anywhere else in the world.

Correct.

The same held true with agriculture in the early 1900s. Many people have forgotten the transition we experience today is as jolting as when America switched from an agricultural base to a manufacturing one.

As with manufacturing, agriculture became increasingly mechanized to the point that today, we produce considerably more food than we've ever done in the past, but with a fraction of the labor.

Manufacturing will continue in the US, just not widgets that can be made by unskilled/semi-skilled labor. There's a tremendous demand for skilled machinist, and in precision engineering for example. Nobody else in the world can beat us in this.

The question is not whether we should be buying American-made paper products, thumb tacks and spittoons. The question should be: why are we still making this junk?

The long term key to getting to the next step is education. When I see what passes for marketable skills these days, I worry.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed to itguy05

MVM

to itguy05
quote:
I could argue my '86 Mustang was the best car I ever owned too.
And that would be a valid argument to something that is subjective to each person. How many Honda's have you owned personally?

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA to tmh

Premium Member

to tmh
said by tmh :

Manufacturing will continue in the US, just not widgets that can be made by unskilled/semi-skilled labor. There's a tremendous demand for skilled machinist, and in precision engineering for example. Nobody else in the world can beat us in this.

The long term key to getting to the next step is education. When I see what passes for marketable skills these days, I worry.

I hope you really don't believe that to be fact. I would say some in other countries might just dispute you on that.

tmh
@verizon.net

tmh

Anon

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by tmh :

Manufacturing will continue in the US, just not widgets that can be made by unskilled/semi-skilled labor. There's a tremendous demand for skilled machinist, and in precision engineering for example. Nobody else in the world can beat us in this.

The long term key to getting to the next step is education. When I see what passes for marketable skills these days, I worry.

I hope you really don't believe that to be fact. I would say some in other countries might just dispute you on that.

No doubt. There's always room for interpretation, and I'm sure there will be others willing to share their thoughts. That's as it should be. competition is what's keeping us ahead. to harken back to the past is good for reminiscing, but not good for staying ahead.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to 67845017

Member

to 67845017
India and China were communist embargoed back then. Japan was "the" place for outsourcing.
patcat88

patcat88 to Fronkman

Member

to Fronkman
said by Fronkman:

I think it is worth pointing out, though MOST of the Chinese-made stuff is junk, US manufactured goods are not universally superior. Ever drive a Dodge?

No. With american engineering, every piece of sound foam, every liquid seal, door panel trims, plastic and steel gears, frame spot welds, trim ultrasonic plastic welds, and all the paint is FEAed to break at exactly 100,005 +/- 3 miles, exactly after the warranty expires.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to patcat88

Member

to patcat88
What does communist embargoed mean? India has never been a communist country, although they did have some domestic commerce protectionist policies in place.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall to patcat88

MVM

to patcat88
said by patcat88:

Japan was "the" place for outsourcing.

"Outsourcing" generally means a company moves parts of their operations to another country. US-based companies really didn't move to Japan, at least not for manufacturing of their products.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to nonamesleft

Member

to nonamesleft
said by nonamesleft:

Why do those twist lock plugs cost so damn much at lowes? They are made in CHINA!

Because they are commercial grade, and it just comes out of yearly dividends or the cost plus military research contract, or venture capital fund of a rich ******* who doesn't know his maid pulls 1K from his ATM account a week. Look at Grainger's prices vs Home Depot.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to Hall

Member

to Hall
said by Hall:

said by patcat88:

Japan was "the" place for outsourcing.

"Outsourcing" generally means a company moves parts of their operations to another country. US-based companies really didn't move to Japan, at least not for manufacturing of their products.

I don't think I agree with that definition.

Outsourcing for all four Fortune 500 companies where I worked meant that the manufacture/service/etc. was sent to a non-corporate owned entity. For example, the IT function being outsourced to EDS, cafeteria services being outsourced to Sodexo, etc.

Offshoring meant when a company moved parts of its operations to another country, but still retained control and/or ownership of that operation.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to WareWolF2k

Member

to WareWolF2k
said by WareWolF2k:

I went to the web site for that $1800 washer and they also have washers that start at $1299 in white, comparable to the price of a decent washer from the major brands. You can't compare a top of the line stainless steel commercial washer to a $500 bestbuy special. If I was in the market for a washer I would consider this brand.

I would search craigslist for laundromat grade machine. Will last forever, and super fast, assuming you have a 1 inch water main and you have give it a toilet waste pipe.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

1 recommendation

Hall to 67845017

MVM

to 67845017
Ooops, you're right. Actually though, if the original statement was corrected for accuracy, i.e. "Japan was "the" place for offshoring" and my response changed "outsourcing" to "offshoring", it would be better
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 recommendation

itguy05 to 67845017

Member

to 67845017
said by 67845017:

Both of you guys need to learn how to read and take your blinders off. These are surveys filled out by consumers. It has nothing to do with CR's testing bias and it has nothing to do with model recommendations.

It has to do with CR's sample size and the fact that they may be from a different demographic than the population at large. If, say they were more an upper-middle to upper class reader base that could skew ratings. Why? Because someone that has a good income is more likely to spend the extra $$ to take care of their cars and trucks. Or someone paying more for that Honda/Toyota is more likely to have more $$ to make sure it gets the maintenance it needs when it needs it.

So you need a good cross section of the population rather than those that choose to pay $30 a year. And then, according to Wikipedia, CR has about 7.3 Million subscribers (compared to the US population of ~311 Million, or 2.4%) . How many of those actually fill out the surveys?
quote:
Or is it your position that American cars haven't gotten better? Given your responses, that's as equally likely to be true as saying that the Japanese didn't have better cars a decade ago.

You can't have it both ways.
Everyone has gotten better. You really can't pick a bad car these days.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to 67845017

Member

to 67845017
said by 67845017:

What does communist embargoed mean? India has never been a communist country, although they did have some domestic commerce protectionist policies in place.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In ··· elations India was red during the cold war.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

That was because the US was backing Pak.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall to itguy05

MVM

to itguy05
I guess to you, the theory of statistics is meaningless. If you can't ask everyone, it doesn't count.

What source do you use for reliability ratings ?
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross to tmh

Member

to tmh
said by tmh :

said by dogma:

It was true years ago, but the idea that manufacturing creates jobs is false for the most part now. Be it here or anywhere else in the world.

Correct.

The same held true with agriculture in the early 1900s. Many people have forgotten the transition we experience today is as jolting as when America switched from an agricultural base to a manufacturing one.
...
The long term key to getting to the next step is education. When I see what passes for marketable skills these days, I worry.

Ah, but you see, there's the rub! Historically, for an agricultural job all you really needed was a strong back and a willingness to work. Education didn't matter much, so anybody who could and would do the job could usually find work. This scenario still plays out in the migrant farm worker world, where you don't even have to speak the local language in order to do the job.

But for non-agricultural work, you generally have to have some education and/or training, and today you have people who've spent considerable time and money going to college and maybe beyond, perhaps going in massive debt in the process, only to find that there are minimal jobs out there for them. This is HUGE difference from the past, and people are only slowly coming to realize that such extended education is probably no longer particularly smart nor cost-effective. So it's really more a matter of choosing the RIGHT education (four or more years of college is no longer automatically the correct choice), in a field where you expect there will be ongoing or at least near-time demand, and also knowing that you may end up having to repeat this process multiple times during your working career.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

Education is still key. The unemployment rate for those with college degrees is 4.1%. It's more than double for those without.

But yes, if a person decides to major in something stupid, then that's their call. But overall, college is still a winner.
iknow
Premium Member
join:2012-03-25

iknow

Premium Member

said by 67845017:

Education is still key. The unemployment rate for those with college degrees is 4.1%. It's more than double for those without.

But yes, if a person decides to major in something stupid, then that's their call. But overall, college is still a winner.

not really, Prostitution can be a pain in the butt, for medical students. »www.myhealthnewsdaily.co ··· ion.html in any country!.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross to 67845017

Member

to 67845017
said by 67845017:

Education is still key. The unemployment rate for those with college degrees is 4.1%. It's more than double for those without.

But yes, if a person decides to major in something stupid, then that's their call. But overall, college is still a winner.

Actual unemployment and underemployment rates are generally considered to be much higher than what is being reported, for various reasons. And while it may be true that these rates are much lower for college-educated people, I know a TON of young people these days who graduated college and are "employed", but are working as waiters and hostesses and sales clerks and such jobs that don't require a college education. Now, there's nothing wrong with these jobs, per se; some of them can be quite profitable (with tips and such) and/or lead to working your way up the corporate ladder (opportunity is where you find it, but you have to good looking for it, too). While being college-educated may have given them a leg up for even those jobs, who knows whether these young folks will ever find the kind of meaningful employment that they expected to find, or if they will ever get out from under the debt they may be under?
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to iknow

Member

to iknow
There was something on TV recently about this. It reminded me of a time I'd been to a country western bar in Minneapolis and the cute little waitress girl in cowboy hat, boots and fringe skirt told me that she did this in her spare time as she was attending law school.

I have to tell you, that I never saw girls in my law school classes that looked like her or sounded as ditzy. But when I read and see articles like this, it makes me wonder.
67845017

67845017 (banned) to scross

Member

to scross
said by scross:

said by 67845017:

Education is still key. The unemployment rate for those with college degrees is 4.1%. It's more than double for those without.

But yes, if a person decides to major in something stupid, then that's their call. But overall, college is still a winner.

Actual unemployment and underemployment rates are generally considered to be much higher than what is being reported, for various reasons. And while it may be true that these rates are much lower for college-educated people, I know a TON of young people these days who graduated college and are "employed", but are working as waiters and hostesses and sales clerks and such jobs that don't require a college education. Now, there's nothing wrong with these jobs, per se; some of them can be quite profitable (with tips and such) and/or lead to working your way up the corporate ladder (opportunity is where you find it, but you have to good looking for it, too). While being college-educated may have given them a leg up for even those jobs, who knows whether these young folks will ever find the kind of meaningful employment that they expected to find, or if they will ever get out from under the debt they may be under?

The unemployment and underemployment rate is significantly higher for non college educated.

When the economy recovers, those college kids will mostly end up doing better than their non-college educated counterparts.

When I came out of law school in 1994, it was a brutal time for law school graduates. I knew many that had well over $100K in loans but could only get $25-40K jobs. I was lucky in that I was able to get a job at a prestige firm at the very top salary range. But those positions were/are few and far between. Regardless, when I talked to a lot of these attorneys ten years later, they were mostly all doing fine. A few left the industry but found good and high paying employment in other capacities.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross to iknow

Member

to iknow
said by iknow:

said by 67845017:

Education is still key. The unemployment rate for those with college degrees is 4.1%. It's more than double for those without.

But yes, if a person decides to major in something stupid, then that's their call. But overall, college is still a winner.

not really, Prostitution can be a pain in the butt, for medical students. »www.myhealthnewsdaily.co ··· ion.html in any country!.

Don't ask me how I know this, but ten or fifteen years ago there was a sweet and sexy young thing (who was originally from England, too, IIRC) out of the Atlanta area who was attending medical school there, and who was offering her "services" to out-of-town men who might be traveling through the Atlanta area on business. She preferred these men to the locals for privacy reasons, and Atlanta was excellent for this, and she was making good use of the internet for finding potential clients and setting up appointments, which was a fairly novel use at the time.

And no, even though back then I made it down to Atlanta occasionally, I never made use of her services, although out of curiosity I did chat with her a bit about what she offered. I was a bit surprised to find that she had a boyfriend (probably her future husband, or so she thought) who was completely OK with this.
scross

scross to 67845017

Member

to 67845017
said by 67845017:

said by scross:

said by 67845017:

Education is still key. The unemployment rate for those with college degrees is 4.1%. It's more than double for those without.

But yes, if a person decides to major in something stupid, then that's their call. But overall, college is still a winner.

Actual unemployment and underemployment rates are generally considered to be much higher than what is being reported, for various reasons. And while it may be true that these rates are much lower for college-educated people, I know a TON of young people these days who graduated college and are "employed", but are working as waiters and hostesses and sales clerks and such jobs that don't require a college education. Now, there's nothing wrong with these jobs, per se; some of them can be quite profitable (with tips and such) and/or lead to working your way up the corporate ladder (opportunity is where you find it, but you have to good looking for it, too). While being college-educated may have given them a leg up for even those jobs, who knows whether these young folks will ever find the kind of meaningful employment that they expected to find, or if they will ever get out from under the debt they may be under?

The unemployment and underemployment rate is significantly higher for non college educated.

When the economy recovers, those college kids will mostly end up doing better than their non-college educated counterparts.

When I came out of law school in 1994, it was a brutal time for law school graduates. I knew many that had well over $100K in loans but could only get $25-40K jobs. I was lucky in that I was able to get a job at a prestige firm at the very top salary range. But those positions were/are few and far between. Regardless, when I talked to a lot of these attorneys ten years later, they were mostly all doing fine. A few left the industry but found good and high paying employment in other capacities.

The unemployment and underemployment rate has been (historically) significantly higher for non college-educated individuals; this may or may not hold true from here on out. And about the "doing fine" thing: You're ignoring the fact that, every year, more or more students are coming off the line who may be competing for these very same jobs, and employers may even prefer them to the older group for various reasons. And law has been on the out-of-favor list for a while now; I've known lawyers who dumped their current jobs for jobs in IT and such, ten or more years ago.

The upshot is that attitudes such as yours may be seriously outdated. There are plenty of colleges and universities out there who like to perpetuate this line of thinking, and seem to be happy to continue massive building campaigns and raising tuition rates under the pretense that huge demand will always be there, as if spending more and more money for their particular brand of education will always be a no-brainer. But, as many are starting to point out (including some of the more progressive educators AND employers), this model is something like 125 years old now, and doesn't necessarily mesh well with the modern world, and is no longer cost-effective in many situations and hasn't been for a while.

Interestingly, on the employer side I've seen two different things. Fast-moving, progressive (usually technical) industries want people who know enough to be immediately useful (no matter how they acquired that knowledge), but are also flexible enough to keep learning (no matter how they acquire that knowledge). While many other industries keep to the traditional methods and are even making things more difficult, like requiring Master's degrees for entry-level jobs where before a Bachelor's was sufficient. The worst among them will take people who have a Bachelor's (or equivalent work experience), who have been doing the job for years, then require them to get a Master's (or Bachelor's, as the case may be) in order to move up the ladder or in some cases even to keep their current job. This is incredibly stupid, BTW, and is a great way to destroy your organization.

nonamesleft
join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI

nonamesleft to patcat88

Member

to patcat88
I thougt grainger was for businesses only, and not for commoners/regular people.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

1 edit

scross

Member

said by nonamesleft:

I thougt grainger was a business only, and not for commoners.

There are ways. The last time I checked, if you joined the Farm Bureau (for example) for maybe $25 (?), you got to use their corporate account for shopping at Grainger's - maybe even with a discount. Grainger's isn't the only game in town, though; MSC is pretty good, too, and as far as I know they'll sell to anybody. And these days there's practically nothing you can't find at a decent price on the internet - eBay, Amazon, and a ton of other places - with no jumping through hoops unless maybe it's a legal requirement. I buy stuff this way all the time, but I do take precautions to protect my credit card number, just in case.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to scross

Member

to scross
said by scross:

The unemployment and underemployment rate has been (historically) significantly higher for non college-educated individuals; this may or may not hold true from here on out. And about the "doing fine" thing: You're ignoring the fact that, every year, more or more students are coming off the line who may be competing for these very same jobs, and employers may even prefer them to the older group for various reasons. And law has been on the out-of-favor list for a while now; I've known lawyers who dumped their current jobs for jobs in IT and such, ten or more years ago.

The upshot is that attitudes such as yours may be seriously outdated. There are plenty of colleges and universities out there who like to perpetuate this line of thinking, and seem to be happy to continue massive building campaigns and raising tuition rates under the pretense that huge demand will always be there, as if spending more and more money for their particular brand of education will always be a no-brainer. But, as many are starting to point out (including some of the more progressive educators AND employers), this model is something like 125 years old now, and doesn't necessarily mesh well with the modern world, and is no longer cost-effective in many situations and hasn't been for a while.

Interestingly, on the employer side I've seen two different things. Fast-moving, progressive (usually technical) industries want people who know enough to be immediately useful (no matter how they acquired that knowledge), but are also flexible enough to keep learning (no matter how they acquire that knowledge). While many other industries keep to the traditional methods and are even making things more difficult, like requiring Master's degrees for entry-level jobs where before a Bachelor's was sufficient. The worst among them will take people who have a Bachelor's (or equivalent work experience), who have been doing the job for years, then require them to get a Master's (or Bachelor's, as the case may be) in order to move up the ladder or in some cases even to keep their current job. This is incredibly stupid, BTW, and is a great way to destroy your organization.

I'm of the opinion that the degree matters. We have hundreds of job openings at my present company that mostly require BS/MS/MBA degrees with a few AAS type degrees.

I don't go for the "no matter how they acquired the knowledge" thing. I'd rather have a BSEE or MSEE coming out of school than knocking about for god knows how many years thinking I'm going to get on the job silicon design training. Or a BSEE coupled with an MBA rather than on the job training for both. No matter how hard a person tries, most will likely not move up the ladder as quickly as someone holding an ivy league MBA. Maybe the model is 125 years old, but it's still true now as it was before.

I'd choose patent law as a career over and over again. The field has exploded. So I don't know what lawyers you know that would dump a law career for an IT job, but as a patent attorney I'd never do that. The IP biz is going great guns now and it's not looking to slow down any time soon.

If the lawyers are ambulance chasers or if the undergrad degrees are in something not useful, then that's on the person making the decision. A good, useful college degree is still very valuable.

The thinking that "I don't need education and I'll learn it as I go is" what has led to the decline of the competitiveness of the US along with us becoming more and more of a welfare/entitlement state.