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Liberty

join:2005-06-12
Tucson, AZ
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to Thaler

Re: [Rant] Fraudulent Purchase Made on Credit, Chase Says is Leg

In past month I got a call from my business cc company saying they detected fraud on my card and canceled it. Ten minutes before I had charged gas.

Seems someone in GB had ordered from several places, several hundred $$ worth of body building stuff

Sent me a new card and a form I had to sign stating I had no way benifited from those purchases

Done deal.

Local bank branded card


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Thaler
this thread is tl;dr
but I just want to say, I had a similar problem with AmEx, I disputed a series of bogus charges on my AmEx bill. One came back for a garage door installation.

I disputed it as fraudulent. They wrote me back a form letter stating the case was closed, with copy of a receipt with a scribbled signature but no card impression.

I called the AmEx customer service line, and the agent quickly calmed me down and reopened the case.

Two weeks later they declined my card at Home Depot. I called to complain, and they told me they issued me a new card due to suspicious activity. The charge was credited.

I bet you have to do the same. Reopen the case and a real human will see exactly what happened.

--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--
The preceding posting is null and void in Arizona and any other jurisdiction where prohibited by law.

DanB7

join:2002-10-05
Marietta, GA
reply to Thaler
You could also file a sworn affidavit with the issuer that you did not make the charge.


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to RickNY
said by RickNY:

I have dealt with Chase for fraudulent charges on a corporate card.. Once the fraudulent transaction is reported, they a) cancel the existing card b) mail a new card under separate cover and c) send you an affidavit to be signed by you asserting that you did not make the charges, that you need to mail or fax back to them. Did you ever receive such affidavit, and, did you sign it and return it to them?

Nope, and no request was made. I'll be calling their number within an hour or two here though, I'll let people know what they say.


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to Koil
said by Koil:

I get the feeling this is one of those things, similar to how insurance companies will do, where the deny almost everything at first, and then wait for you to come back and dispute before they do any real legwork on the transaction.

You beat me to it.... I was thinking the same thing. They do this to everyone and enough people "accept" this and pay the charge.

As for small-claims court, you may very well "win" but no one will force Chase to remove the charge.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
once Chase says you owe something you don't you can sue for defamation.

MGD
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-31
kudos:9

1 edit
reply to Thaler
said by Thaler:

said by RickNY:

I have dealt with Chase for fraudulent charges on a corporate card.. Once the fraudulent transaction is reported, they a) cancel the existing card b) mail a new card under separate cover and c) send you an affidavit to be signed by you asserting that you did not make the charges, that you need to mail or fax back to them. Did you ever receive such affidavit, and, did you sign it and return it to them?

Nope, and no request was made. I'll be calling their number within an hour or two here though, I'll let people know what they say.

.
While the majority of consumer card fraud cases can be resolved satisfactorily with the issuing bank over the telephone or via online communications. However, never allow the 60 day window to expire on unresolved cases.

In Thaler See Profile's case, Chase's failure to send him a fraud affidavit to be completed indicates that his case was not handled properly from the beginning. A completed fraud affidavit is necessary to finalize the chargeback to the merchant. Clearly something went wrong at Chase in response to your fraudulend charge complaint.

MGD


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to Hall
said by Hall:

As for small-claims court, you may very well "win" but no one will force Chase to remove the charge.

On the phone now ATM, but my small claims suggestion was to pay the amount in question, then request the exact same amount back in small claims court.


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to Thaler
Alright. just got off the horn with Chase. Apparently my initial fraudulent charge claim was filed under a customer charge dispute rather than a fraud case. Once the paperwork made it up to the fraud department, I guess someone forgot to dot the i's and cross the t's and so they sent me that receipt as a proof of services rendered.

The current Chase fraud representative pushed forward a refund of the amount (plus interest accrued) to be seen electronically within 24-48 hours, and to be fully cleared on paper within 1 to 2 billing cycles. So, while I'm not particularly thrilled to have to play Chase department hopping, I'm satisfied to get the charge & interest removed.


ilikeme
I live in a van down by the river.
Premium
join:2002-08-27
Sugar Land, TX
kudos:1
reply to Thaler
Another reason I stay away from the mega-chain banks. I have never had any trouble with USAA or American Express when resolving security issues.


Fronkman
An Apple a day keeps the doctor away
Premium
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO
AMEX isn't a mega-chain bank?


Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH
kudos:2
reply to Thaler
said by Thaler:

On the phone now ATM, but my small claims suggestion was to pay the amount in question, then request the exact same amount back in small claims court.

You can ask and you can "win", but small-claims courts do NOT enforce their judgements (at least in some jurisdictions). It's up to the loser to voluntarily pay.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Bamafan2277
Yeah, it's always a blast to sit down in person in front of someone's desk (a manager or customer service rep or whomever), and then watch them have to jump through all of the same hoops that their employer makes you jump through as a customer, and then they run into exactly the same frustrations! I've had this happen a few times now, and I've generally taken it as a sign that I need to move my business elsewhere.

The last time something like this happened it was over a minor ATM issue (it shorted me $20), and I parked my car and went directly into the bank to speak to someone in person (several people, actually), where this theoretically could have been resolved in minutes. Instead, because the bank's ATM is considered a separate financial entity, and in fact is owned and managed by a third-party, it took dozens of interactions on everybody's part (including multiple visits and phone calls from me) and something like 60 or 90 days to resolve - whatever the maximum legal limit is to the amount of time they have to drag out their "investigation". From a cost perspective, they would have been better off to have just handed me the $20, no questions asked.


ilikeme
I live in a van down by the river.
Premium
join:2002-08-27
Sugar Land, TX
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage
reply to Fronkman
said by Fronkman:

AMEX isn't a mega-chain bank?

I'm talking about the banks that you find on every other corner that charge fees for every little thing and have horrid customer service (Chase, Wells Fargo, Bank Of America, Etc.)


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to Hall
said by Hall:

said by Thaler:

On the phone now ATM, but my small claims suggestion was to pay the amount in question, then request the exact same amount back in small claims court.

You can ask and you can "win", but small-claims courts do NOT enforce their judgements (at least in some jurisdictions). It's up to the loser to voluntarily pay.

Actually, you can do fun stuff to a defendant of a legal action that refuses to pay a judgement. Failing to comply with any court order is bad news regardless of the size & clout of the person/party involved.

Wyngs

join:2010-02-20
Coos Bay, OR
reply to trythisfirst
said by trythisfirst :

I had a legitimate fraud deal with chase one time. I don't feel like typing up a long post about it, needles to say i use a different bank now, they basically just played dumb and wouldn't do anything about a discrepancy.

Same reason I left them. And I wonder about it to this day. I pay up my cards every month, no interest. They were trying very hard to sell me additional fraud protection. I ask you, if they were receiving no interest, would a credit card company engineer a fraud to scare you into buying more protection? What is the ratio of those defrauded to those who pay up fully every month?

Yeah, I'm suspicious. Modern business practices have made me that way.


Gbcue
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to ilikeme
said by ilikeme:

said by Fronkman:

AMEX isn't a mega-chain bank?

I'm talking about the banks that you find on every other corner that charge fees for every little thing and have horrid customer service (Chase, Wells Fargo, Bank Of America, Etc.)

I've never had a problem with Chase.


MrMr

@army.mil
reply to Thaler
Interesting, I had a Fraudulent charge (a bunch Actually) at a Wal-Mart in TX a few months ago. USAA agreed it was fraudulent, after a couple of weeks.

hardly
Premium
join:2004-02-10
USA
reply to Thaler

AricBrown

join:2002-12-11
Amarillo, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to Bamafan2277
said by Bamafan2277:

Now I bank with a local bank and the customer service is amazing! I had my card stolen with the local bank a few months ago, they issued me a new temp card on the spot and reversed all transactions as they happened across country after I signed that it was not me and that was it.

I agree with this 100%, While I have never dealt with Chase. I have had a bad experience with Bank One (which chase bought). I now bank with a regional bank (has several billion is assets). The customer service is 100 times better. I left the country I called and told the I was only going to make a few major purchases They watched my card the whole 2 weeks I was gone. Another time my card was involved in a online bank scam. They called me told me about it. They where going to cancel my card but instead they limited me to just Texas purchases until I could get to bank on Monday to get a new card. This is why you should run away from Chase and all major banks... No personal service. I have all of the same benefits that you do except not so many of the problems.

AricBrown

join:2002-12-11
Amarillo, TX
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to hardly
You beat me to it.. I was looking for a link.. My hero too


fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14
reply to Koil
said by Koil:

I get the feeling this is one of those things, similar to how insurance companies will do, where the deny almost everything at first, and then wait for you to come back and dispute before they do any real legwork on the transaction.

That's my thought as well. I think a letter written and substantiated like DC DSL See Profile described will get it resolved.

edit: I see you got it resolved already. Good work.
--
Bohemian Rhapsody


fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14
reply to scross
said by scross:

Was the stolen card a personal credit card or a business credit card? I don't remember all of the details, but the latest credit card laws that went into effect a few years back favored personal cards and disfavored business cards (far fewer legal protections for them). This was a "gotcha" in favor of the credit card companies, so of course they started pushing their business cards more (I got flooded with unsolicited offers for these myself, even though I have no use for one).

60 days to dispute a personal card transaction; 1 business day to dispute a business card transaction. That is information I got from my bank last month.
--
Bohemian Rhapsody

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to Thaler
You have not had many small claims lawsuits against big corporations. You cant do shit unless the headquarters is in your state and in your local district justices area. Your in California and chase is headquartered in New York. Are you ready to find a lawyer for 300 dollars that practices law in new york to collect it.


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
You don't need a lawyer to take something to small claims. For me, it would've been $30 to file a claim.

»www.dca.ca.gov/publications/smal···fo.shtml


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

1 edit
How much it costs to file small claims does not make a difference to rody's post. Rody is talking about collecting a judgement and that would be after filing.

Your link even talks about how difficult it can be to collect on a judgement:
quote:
You also may need to take action and spend money to enforce any judgment. While a small claims court judgment carries legal weight, it may be difficult or even impossible to enforce the judgment. Collecting a court judgment is one of the most challenging and frustrating aspects of any lawsuit. The person who is obligated to pay the judgment may not have the money to pay it, or may simply refuse to pay it. Enforcement procedures are available, but these require extra effort and also money on your part. It's possible that you will never collect anything.
This quote deals directly with this part of rody's post:
"Are you ready to find a lawyer for 300 dollars that practices law in new york to collect it."
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
I think the New York state attorney general would be happy to help. He's no fan of Chase and has stopped their shenanigans more than once in the past few years. In fact, he would probably more than happy to help...he'd be delighted.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
I would be far more willing to bet he would love to go after judgements that are not small claims... The POINT being - it will probably cost money to collect the judgement as already noted in the link about small claims provided by Thaler.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
Sure, the Attorney General likes the big stuff...gets headlines, makes him look good, etc. But if he also helped a little guy that Chase had refused to pay the judgement against them...well, that is nice publicity also.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to Thaler
Move swiftly. Don't delay. If the dispute process goes against you and the charge has been ruled as valid, as in this case, you do have the right to try and refute it. However to do so, the credit card dispute law states that you must respond in writing within 10 days after receiving the ruling.

Clearly state in writing the charge is an un-authorized charge not made by you and that it is fraudulent. Provide the details you provided to us.

Good luck. Also get the address for billing inquiries or disputes or whatever chase calls it, don't mail it to the billing address for payments. Oh and it wouldn't hurt to make sure it's sent by certified mail with proof of delivery.

You may find this helpful:

»creditcardforum.com/blog/credit-···-letter/
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini