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67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to CylonRed

Member

to CylonRed

Re: What country are sharp window air conditioners made?

said by CylonRed:

In the early to middle 70's they were crap. Even to the late 70's they were still pretty crappy. They then had the right cars for the time with the fuel issues and at the right price compared to their competition.

Man, those early Japanese cars were rust buckets. What a joke they were. Obviously the joke was on us, since they they've been laughing all the way to the bank for some time now.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by 67845017:

said by CylonRed:

In the early to middle 70's they were crap. Even to the late 70's they were still pretty crappy. They then had the right cars for the time with the fuel issues and at the right price compared to their competition.

Man, those early Japanese cars were rust buckets. What a joke they were. Obviously the joke was on us, since they they've been laughing all the way to the bank for some time now.

Rust buckets and underpowered. What a joke.

I had one Toyota a 1990 pickup we inherited when my FIL died. That was the first and "LAST" Toyota I'll ever have in my driveway.

Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium Member
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT

Subaru

Premium Member

So you let a very old Toyota model change your judgement?
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by 67845017:

said by CylonRed:

In the early to middle 70's they were crap. Even to the late 70's they were still pretty crappy. They then had the right cars for the time with the fuel issues and at the right price compared to their competition.

Man, those early Japanese cars were rust buckets. What a joke they were. Obviously the joke was on us, since they they've been laughing all the way to the bank for some time now.

Rust buckets and underpowered. What a joke.

I had one Toyota a 1990 pickup we inherited when my FIL died. That was the first and "LAST" Toyota I'll ever have in my driveway.

In 1987 I had a brand new Celica GTS. It was an awesome car. Occasional bad cars happen. Sometimes a maker will have an entire line that's bad for a particular model year. If I remember correctly, Japanese trucks really weren't very good until the mid to late 90s.

mityfowl
Premium Member
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

1 recommendation

mityfowl to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by 67845017:

said by CylonRed:

In the early to middle 70's they were crap. Even to the late 70's they were still pretty crappy. They then had the right cars for the time with the fuel issues and at the right price compared to their competition.

Man, those early Japanese cars were rust buckets. What a joke they were. Obviously the joke was on us, since they they've been laughing all the way to the bank for some time now.

Rust buckets and underpowered. What a joke.

I had one Toyota a 1990 pickup we inherited when my FIL died. That was the first and "LAST" Toyota I'll ever have in my driveway.

I had a 1990 either Toyota or Nissan that I retired with 290K miles. It sure helped my little start up company.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05 to Subaru

Member

to Subaru
said by Subaru:

So you let a very old Toyota model change your judgement?

Them and Honda have always been overrated, IMHO.

Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium Member
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT

Subaru

Premium Member

well I can't say for both since I never owned both long term.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed to itguy05

MVM

to itguy05
Having owned Honda (several of them) I find they are not the least bit overrated. my '89 Civic hatchback is plainly the best car I ever owned.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

I don't think they're overrated either. My family has mostly owned Japanese cars and have been very happy. The few deviations into American car territory have not gone well.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA to Subaru

Premium Member

to Subaru
said by Subaru:

So you let a very old Toyota model change your judgement?

Very old? It was 2 years old when my FIL died. That's not old.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05 to CylonRed

Member

to CylonRed
said by CylonRed:

Having owned Honda (several of them) I find they are not the least bit overrated. my '89 Civic hatchback is plainly the best car I ever owned.

I could argue my '86 Mustang was the best car I ever owned too. Survived a new driver for well over 100k and still ran perfect when I got rid of it at 175k. And that was a crappy Ford 4-speed stick and a 2.3L 4 banger from the Pinto!

But if you look at it objectively, Honda and Toyota have plenty of issues and have throughout their history. It's just people wanted to look through them because they were "superior". I've read reviews where people love their Odysseys despite being on their 3rd-4th transmission at around 100-120k. Same with Acuras and other V6 Hondas. Really? That's "quality"?

Same as some Toyota owners with sludging/sludged engines.

If you're constantly told something is superior you will most likely gloss over the issues as it's superior and if it's doing it, how much worse would the others be?

I'd say a car that's on it's 3rd transmission in 120k is a POS. Even my wife's 03 Escape with the "famous" C4DE shifts perfect at 110k.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

n=1 isn't really a good measure. Your anecdotal evidence isn't enough to really change the general truth, no matter how vehemently you protest.

As it's been reported quite a bit, all the automakers have raised their quality. But the fact remains, historically, the Japanese built better automobiles, which is the reason for their reputation.

No doubt you'll attempt to poo-poo the chart away, but I think it stands on its own, given the thousands of survey responses that Consumer Reports gets.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 recommendation

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by 67845017:

n=1 isn't really a good measure. Your anecdotal evidence isn't enough to really change the general truth, no matter how vehemently you protest.

As it's been reported quite a bit, all the automakers have raised their quality. But the fact remains, historically, the Japanese built better automobiles, which is the reason for their reputation.

No doubt you'll attempt to poo-poo the chart away, but I think it stands on its own, given the thousands of survey responses that Consumer Reports gets.

Yea, my son-in-law is a service manager for a large Lexus dealer. Go ahead tell me how superior Japanese cars are. Especially the High Dollar Japanese Cars.

He drives a Jeep and my daughter a Honda built in Ohio.

If you believe the biased Consumer Reports then you have a problem with accuracy.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05 to 67845017

Member

to 67845017
said by 67845017:

No doubt you'll attempt to poo-poo the chart away, but I think it stands on its own, given the thousands of survey responses that Consumer Reports gets.

So I take it that chart came from CR then? I won't even begin to point out the flaws in their methodology and how it's a very small sample of the overall population that is pretty much self-selected and most likely a certain segment of the population (like Mac users are supposed to only be rich). Those arguments are all overt the web.

And if I bought a car that a "trusted" resource said was the best, I'd not really want to report any issues as after all, the best doesn't have issues....

Nor will I discuss how CR got caught red handed giving Honda and Toyota "passes" by recommending new models without any reliability data to back it up.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

Both of you guys need to learn how to read and take your blinders off. These are surveys filled out by consumers. It has nothing to do with CR's testing bias and it has nothing to do with model recommendations.

Or is it your position that American cars haven't gotten better? Given your responses, that's as equally likely to be true as saying that the Japanese didn't have better cars a decade ago.

You can't have it both ways.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by 67845017:

Both of you guys need to learn how to read and take your blinders off. These are surveys filled out by consumers. It has nothing to do with CR's testing bias and it has nothing to do with model recommendations.

Or is it your position that American cars haven't gotten better? Given your responses, that's as equally likely to be true as saying that the Japanese didn't have better cars a decade ago.

You can't have it both ways.

I get my information human first hand not from a biased magazine that gets under the table money to get better results. Just how do you think CR is able to operate their high dollar enterprise? Not from subscription money.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

lol. Okay. Just make sure you change the tinfoil out every so often. You can get mold in there.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

1 edit

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member


Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall to itguy05

MVM

to itguy05
said by itguy05:

So I take it that chart came from CR then? I won't even begin to point out the flaws in their methodology...

What source do you use for reliability ratings ?

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed to itguy05

MVM

to itguy05
quote:
I could argue my '86 Mustang was the best car I ever owned too.
And that would be a valid argument to something that is subjective to each person. How many Honda's have you owned personally?
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 recommendation

itguy05 to 67845017

Member

to 67845017
said by 67845017:

Both of you guys need to learn how to read and take your blinders off. These are surveys filled out by consumers. It has nothing to do with CR's testing bias and it has nothing to do with model recommendations.

It has to do with CR's sample size and the fact that they may be from a different demographic than the population at large. If, say they were more an upper-middle to upper class reader base that could skew ratings. Why? Because someone that has a good income is more likely to spend the extra $$ to take care of their cars and trucks. Or someone paying more for that Honda/Toyota is more likely to have more $$ to make sure it gets the maintenance it needs when it needs it.

So you need a good cross section of the population rather than those that choose to pay $30 a year. And then, according to Wikipedia, CR has about 7.3 Million subscribers (compared to the US population of ~311 Million, or 2.4%) . How many of those actually fill out the surveys?
quote:
Or is it your position that American cars haven't gotten better? Given your responses, that's as equally likely to be true as saying that the Japanese didn't have better cars a decade ago.

You can't have it both ways.
Everyone has gotten better. You really can't pick a bad car these days.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall

MVM

I guess to you, the theory of statistics is meaningless. If you can't ask everyone, it doesn't count.

What source do you use for reliability ratings ?