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URFloorMatt

join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
reply to Greg2600

Re: More HD channels coming by October.

Thanks for the math correction. Edited my post to reflect the right numbers for future reference.

said by Greg2600:

And then we're back to square one, which is why aren't they moving MPEG2 to 4????

Because there are 6 series STBs out there that can't run MPEG4. So, like I said, the strategy appears to be to offer new channels in MPEG4 in the short term so the transition can occur without a massive reclamation effort or a service interruption.

As others have noted, future STB technology will allow Verizon to significantly reduce the burden of multiple STBs per home, so I doubt they are planning to make a big push for MPEG4 until more palatable options are on the table.

If anything, I could see them moving the premiums to MPEG4, since the reclamation effort required would be limited.


Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to Acct101

Verizon are YEARS away from migrating away from STB's.


xocsucram

join:2008-10-02

still waiting on BBC America in HD, altho its really just for the Top Gear episodes i dont watch anything else on the channel so its not a major issue.

all the stuff i do watch is already in HD



wmcbrine
213 251 145 96

join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
kudos:1
reply to joe01880

said by joe01880:

You assume everyone in the FiOS footprint has an HD tv

Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well.
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to Acct101

My brother used a couple of HD DVRs for years on Comcast before he got an HD Set to display the recorded HD content. He wanted the larger hard drives for the extra storage space.



Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to wmcbrine

said by wmcbrine:

Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well.

Not really. I have a TV under my kitchen cabinets. There is no room for one of their HD boxes, only the Dct700 fits. Unfortunately I don't think any equipment provider makes a box near to that size. In addition, back to square one, because Verizon would be forced to send out new HD boxes in place of many SD boxes that customers currently get free. You'd be amazed how many times I walk into a local business and see a TV on the wall with a DCT700 velcro'd to the side. Then you have the Frontier areas, which Verizon has to take into account when making changes. Just seems like Verizon is too much of a bohemoth to do anything.


nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:16

What do you mean by the statement 'Verizon has to take into account for Frontier areas'? All decisions since the Frontier sale only impact Verizon - Frontier is their own company now.



Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to Acct101

Doesn't the feed come from Verizon? Or is Frontier in command of getting its own channels? If it's from Verizon, they can't just cut off SD channels without Frontier also replacing SD boxes.


PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:2

The Verizon VHOs 10 (IN), 12 (OR) and 13 (WA) were sold to Frontier. Does the Verizon SHE still feed them too? Even if it does, Verizon could stop providing SD feeds to it's own VHOs if it moved to HD only but continue to provide the Frontier VHOs with an SD feed via the backbone network.



FullOpinions

@comcast.net
reply to Greg2600

I'm confused, everyone saying that Verizon won't switch to MPEG4 because it will require killing all of the 6xxx line boxes, but this can be alleviated by the use of channel packages that already exist. What's the difference if I don't get the Food Network because my package is X rather then Y, the channel comes up with a to order call 800-555-1234 message. I don't get the channel, why do I care if it's MPEG2 VS 4? If I want the channel I order it and Verizon swaps out the box for ME, and I pay additionally for the extra channels because of the package I subscribe too. My dad doesn't care about this package vs that package, he just watches the basic channels and none of the premium ones, people like that get the 6xxx series box and the channels that they can't get move to MPEG4 with the other more expensive plans. How many of our senior citizens are really using all of the premium channels? Give the people with basic plans the 6xxx series (I'm sure there is plenty of them) and the people that order Extreme/Ultimate HD TV the better boxes with the ability to watch MPEG4.

How is this NOT a win-win? It's bad enough that we have to pay a fee to watch per TV now where before the basic channels pop up on a regular TV without a box, but now we keep getting less and less and paying more and more. If our bill is going to keep rising, they should be providing MORE HD content, and using more common sense, with the extra money they get from us!


Mac973

join:2009-05-18
West Orange, NJ
reply to Greg2600

said by Greg2600:

said by wmcbrine:

Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well.

Not really. I have a TV under my kitchen cabinets. There is no room for one of their HD boxes, only the Dct700 fits.

The other day I went to the grocery store and picked up a bottle of orange juice. Apparently they changed the size and shape of the bottle so that it no longer fits into the usual spot in my fridge. So I moved it to a different spot. You have to adapt. You can't expect Verizon to keep supporting a particular receiver because nothing else will fit.

skohly

join:2009-08-19
Township Of Washington, NJ

said by Mac973:

said by Greg2600:

said by wmcbrine:

Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well.

Not really. I have a TV under my kitchen cabinets. There is no room for one of their HD boxes, only the Dct700 fits.

The other day I went to the grocery store and picked up a bottle of orange juice. Apparently they changed the size and shape of the bottle so that it no longer fits into the usual spot in my fridge. So I moved it to a different spot. You have to adapt. You can't expect Verizon to keep supporting a particular receiver because nothing else will fit.

Yup and also those orange juice bottles are getting smaller. Off topic but they really are


nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:16
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Greg2600

said by Greg2600:

Doesn't the feed come from Verizon? Or is Frontier in command of getting its own channels? If it's from Verizon, they can't just cut off SD channels without Frontier also replacing SD boxes.

Nope. Once Verizon sold off the properties to Frontier, all those customers began getting feeds from Frontier's SHE(s) and VHO's. Verizon has not provided any programming or network support to Frontier after the original transition period ended.

URFloorMatt

join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
reply to wmcbrine

said by wmcbrine:

said by joe01880:

You assume everyone in the FiOS footprint has an HD tv

Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well.

In fact, at this point, Verizon only offers HD capable boxes to new customers.


joe01880

join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA

2 edits

said by URFloorMatt:

said by wmcbrine:

said by joe01880:

You assume everyone in the FiOS footprint has an HD tv

Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well.

In fact, at this point, Verizon only offers HD capable boxes to new customers.

You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace.

MacAlert

join:2005-03-16
Flushing, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by joe01880:

So your telling me verizon is tunring away business and or forcing people buy expensive HDTV's?

Never mind, you edited your post as I was typing.

PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:2
reply to joe01880

said by joe01880:

You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace.

The HD STBs output SD versions of the HD channels via composite and RF output, applicable to SD TVs. So this would not be HD only programming. Never was and never will be. Your basic assumption that switching to all HD feeds means no SD capability is in error.

tnsprin

join:2003-07-23
Bradenton, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to joe01880

said by joe01880:

You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace.

The HD boxes also can down convert HD signals to SD, so that a user can watch HD only Channels on their SD sets. Or the HD version of a HD channel with both hd and SD on their SD set.


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ
reply to nycdave

said by nycdave:

Frontier, all those customers began getting feeds from Frontier's SHE(s) and VHO's. Verizon has not provided any programming or network support to Frontier after the original transition period ended.

People I know within Frontier (former Verizon) tell me they will be bankrupt within 2 years. Supply and demand along with price just not matching up...


joe01880

join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA
reply to tnsprin

said by tnsprin:

said by joe01880:

You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace.

The HD boxes also can down convert HD signals to SD, so that a user can watch HD only Channels on their SD sets. Or the HD version of a HD channel with both hd and SD on their SD set.

and is the 16:9 HD feed being forced into a 4:3 SD TV screen now just a smaller box in the middle of the screen or does the 16:9 HD feed fill the entire screen? Or does it now have bars at the top and bottom, im sure you see my point.
Why should people with SD only TV's have to pay a price because some want HD only channels to save QAM space to add more HD channels?
If there is no change in picture size feeding a 16:9 HD feed in to a 4:3 SDTV i withdraw my objection.

For that matter. my sister and mother-in-law both only have SD TV's and Cisco HD NON DVR Boxes. The one thing i can say is the guide on both TV's, one in MD and one in MA looks terrible. I have not tried to tune a HD channel on either of those SD TV's but will put it to the test just to see for myself what the picture does with regards to size.


Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to Acct101

Joe, some SD feeds are widescreen/letterbox automatically, like ESPN and FOX. More and more in fact. They cannot be zoomed on the DCT700.

The other issue is that not all SD channels have an HD replacement. In fact I'd guess most do not. So you are NOT gaining all the SD QAM back. Granted you could probably gain back enough for 30 HD channels in MPEG2, even more with MPEG4. However, the moral of the story is it will take a large scale communication and customer service operation from Verizon, along with a financial cost. Won't ever happen.



Andy from CA
Premium
join:2008-09-05
Anaheim, CA
reply to joe01880

said by joe01880:

said by tnsprin:

said by joe01880:

You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace.

The HD boxes also can down convert HD signals to SD, so that a user can watch HD only Channels on their SD sets. Or the HD version of a HD channel with both hd and SD on their SD set.

and is the 16:9 HD feed being forced into a 4:3 SD TV screen now just a smaller box in the middle of the screen or does the 16:9 HD feed fill the entire screen? Or does it now have bars at the top and bottom, im sure you see my point.
Why should people with SD only TV's have to pay a price because some want HD only channels to save QAM space to add more HD channels?
If there is no change in picture size feeding a 16:9 HD feed in to a 4:3 SDTV i withdraw my objection.

That's the thing, With an HD box feeding an SDTV an HD channel* you control how a 16:9 picture appears on your 4:3 TV. With a SD channel Verizon controls how the channel appears. With an HD STB you are in control of what the picture looks like.

*Also works with 16:9 SD channels. We have two here in SoCal.


wmcbrine
213 251 145 96

join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
kudos:1
reply to joe01880

said by joe01880:

and is the 16:9 HD feed being forced into a 4:3 SD TV screen now just a smaller box in the middle of the screen or does the 16:9 HD feed fill the entire screen? Or does it now have bars at the top and bottom,

Generally it's an option, unlike the case where it's pre-converted by the provider. I don't know about Verizon's boxes specifically, though.

im sure you see my point.

Not at all.

Why should people with SD only TV's have to pay a price

They don't, at all. I gather you've never actually watched a downconverted HD channel? It looks better than a channel converted to SD by the provider, and having the option to control the format is a plus, especially considering that Verizon often gets it wrong.
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starrin

join:2005-05-29
Virginia Beach, VA
reply to URFloorMatt

said by URFloorMatt See Profile
In fact, at this point, Verizon only offers HD capable boxes to new customers.
[/BQUOTE :

Wrong. I had FiOS TV installed 3 weeks ago; the 3 SDTVs got 700s. The 2 HDTV got HD boxes


URFloorMatt

join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

said by starrin:

Wrong. I had FiOS TV installed 3 weeks ago; the 3 SDTVs got 700s. The 2 HDTV got HD boxes

That's good to know. We have previously been told on this forum that the DCT-700 series was no longer available. It appears that information was incorrect.

Experience does suggest that the 2000 series STBs have been retired, however.


celticpride

@verizon.net

you folks with sd tvs need to check prices of hdtvs,they are way lower in price than you might think,5 years ago i paid over $800.00 for a 32'' hdtv, that wasnt even a flat screen!,now you can find 32'' hdtv flat screens in the $200 to $300.00 range!. I have seen 55'' to 65'' hdtvs going for less than $1000.00 at best buy and sears,as well as amazon.com. 3years ago these big screens would of cost around $2000.00 or more!

Expand your moderator at work


Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to celticpride

Re: More HD channels coming by October.

said by celticpride :

you folks with sd tvs need to check prices of hdtvs,they are way lower in price than you might think,5 years ago i paid over $800.00 for a 32'' hdtv, that wasnt even a flat screen!,now you can find 32'' hdtv flat screens in the $200 to $300.00 range!. I have seen 55'' to 65'' hdtvs going for less than $1000.00 at best buy and sears,as well as amazon.com. 3years ago these big screens would of cost around $2000.00 or more!

The only SD TV's I have are one in the dusty basement, which has an HD 7100 STB, and one in my "game room" that I use on classic game consoles. However, we have two small HDTV's that use the SD Box DCT700 because all the other boxes are too dang big! The boxes would be in the way. Also, Anything below a 32" set really isn't going to make much difference between SD and HD channels. The screen is so small. Again, if Verizon made a small HD Box, great. Again, if Verizon would pay to swap out all the SD Boxes, great. Not going to happen.


Photoflash

@verizon.net

The "big box" dilemma is annoying. I have a 19 in. screen in my kitchen, and the old is just about as big as the LCD. Since the only channels I want to watch aren't OTA, I'm stuck.

I did just buy an Actiontec "My Wireless TV", and in one easy test, it worked just fine. So if I can figure out how I can get rid of my superfluous 6416 DVR and keep my wife happy , I will go that route.



joe01880

join:2007-10-26
Wakefield, MA
reply to wmcbrine

said by wmcbrine:

I gather you've never actually watched a downconverted HD channel?.

No, I haven't.