 sm5w2
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON | Why doesn't RIM put TV tuners in their products? What is it about putting TV tuners in portable devices (phones, tablets, etc) that is so taboo that nobody wants to do it - even if the very future of their company is at stake?
Wouldn't the ability to watch free OTA digital TV on their phone or tablet be a KILLER APP - enough to fuel consumer demand for the product and possibly pull the company back from the brink of extinction? |
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| Because UHF & VHF signals require Antennas that are much larger than a phone in order to work effectively. |
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sm5w2
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON | In urban areas the signals are very strong. With digital signal format (ATSC) there is no ghosting of images the way it used to be with analog (NTSC) signals. In the USA (the major market for RIM) they have a lot more TV transmitter towers. |
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 GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | I live in the most densely populated neighbourhood in Quebec, in the heart of downtown Montreal. I get zero digital channels over the air, and now that we've shut down analog, I get zero over the air channels period.
In terms of ghosting, it's true that there is no ghosting on the displayed image, but if you had ghosting on the analog channel, you will simply not be able to decode the digital channel at all. So that doesn't really fix the problem. Signal issues that previously produced sub-optimal but still watchable results on analog can instead completely prevent digital decoding.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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 Wolfie00My dog is an elitistPremium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:5 | reply to CanadianRip
said by CanadianRip:Because UHF & VHF signals require Antennas that are much larger than a phone in order to work effectively.
I agree with this. In fact, when I got my first digital TV when I lived in Toronto, even a full-size set of rabbit ears didn't work all that reliably for either ATSC or, for that matter, NTSC, even though I was right in the city. Didn't get decent reception until I got my Channel Master UHF antenna, at which point I not only got Toronto but all the Buffalo stations. That was the point where I canceled my cable TV! 
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"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." --Wendell Berry
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GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | reply to sm5w2
Currently deployed MPEG-2 ATSC is a terrible waste of spectrum. We're basically spending 3MHz of spectrum to get a single 1080i channel, when with LTE and h.264 we could do the same thing at the same quality using as little as 700 kHz...
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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balur
join:2010-04-28
kudos:1 | reply to sm5w2
If it worked it would be great, but I'd be worried that it would have too many problems.
I actually receive OTA tv and love it, but the Antenna has to be in the perfect position, if it gets moved then some of the channels start to kick out.
Walking around with a small device, and small antenna? |
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Reviews:
 ·Cogeco Cable
| reply to sm5w2
said by sm5w2:What is it about putting TV tuners in portable devices (phones, tablets, etc) that is so taboo that nobody wants to do it - even if the very future of their company is at stake?
Great idea in theory but CanadianRip is right, the tuner and various other associated parts would be huge and they generate heat. Heat and power, that's the killer... people want light devices that last as long as possible before recharging.
There's probably other reasons why not, such as additional items to tech support or fail that aren't phone related and while, as you say, signals may be strong enough that they don't need an antenna in urban areas, there's enough people in decent sized cities that would be pissed off this advertised idea didn't work for them.
Great idea but it just can't happen...
Hang in there, the world will be entirely broadband sooner than later. |
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 elwoodbluesElwood BluesPremium
join:2006-08-30
HarperLand | reply to sm5w2
Why RIM? |
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| lol good question, didn't even think it was odd he'd ask specifically about RIM. It would make the most sense for it to be an Android based phone since it would be cheaper for some Chinese company to dump something weird onto the market. |
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 BGBWants moar interwebzPremium
join:2009-07-09
Waterloo, ON | If you really want one with a tuner buy a "Blockberry" 
»saramobi.com/clone/blackberry.html |
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Main reason you don't see ATSC tuners on mobile devices is because the standard does not deal with moving signals very well.
There is an ATSC-mobile standard being tested right now.
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"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes |
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 GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:3
 ·Start Communicat..
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said by Guspaz:I live in the most densely populated neighbourhood in Quebec, in the heart of downtown Montreal. I get zero digital channels over the air, and now that we've shut down analog, I get zero over the air channels period. Blame regulatory capture and the fact that all of our broadcasters are also BDUs for the lack of decent off-air coverage, not ATSC. Here in Fort Erie I can get off-air ATSC with a small piece of tinfoil, and you can do the same thing in just about every urban area in the US.
If the CRTC gave two shits about off-air television coverage and if there wasn't a conflict of interest where broadcasters in Canada do the least amount of possible to provide their free service when they can just get you to pay for it through their BDU instead, your off-air television coverage in Montreal - and Toronto and anywhere else in the country - wouldn't suck.
As for an ATSC tuner in a Blackberry, the antenna and tuner aren't the reason why it won't happen - in the grand scheme, that's relatively simple to integrate, and one should remember that the antennas don't need to be huge as UHF ATSC channels are not much lower than 700MHz LTE or 800MHz HSPA. VHF ATSC could be an issue, but nothing that couldn't be worked around. The problem is that the carriers would throw a hissyfit over customers being able to tune to something for free that they can charge a premium for now instead. |
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GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | reply to sm5w2
There is a mobile ATSC standard, actually.
The solution to coverage problems in my case would likely be multiple transmitters. I live in a giant concrete building, and most (all?) of the transmitters are on the other side of the building. Hell, I can SEE the transmitters if I go up to my roof, and I can see them from here at my desk at the office. Well, not only that, if I look out the window next to my desk, I can see both my apartment and the transmitter. The main TV transmitters in Montreal on Mount Royal are about 2000 metres from my apartment, with absolutely no obstacles between them, except for the bulk of my own apartment building. I would imagine people on the other side of my building get mind mindbogglingly perfect reception, while I get zero reception.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:3 | Canadian broadcasters put out a pathetically low amount of power, making it extremely difficult to get even the most basic level of in-building penetration. Multiple transmitters aren't needed, higher power output is. |
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 milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:1 | Unfortunately, in Montreal, they put out enough power to block off the US channels I USED to receive.
No matter. I rarely watch TV anymore. The endless commercials drive me nuts.
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Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live |
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 SavantPremium
join:2001-08-12
Toronto | reply to sm5w2
said by sm5w2:What is it about putting TV tuners in portable devices (phones, tablets, etc) that is so taboo that nobody wants to do it Huh? There are LOADS of non-mainstream phones that have TV tuners in them. I own one.
The problem is that the TV tuner is analog, and the signals in North America are digital. That doesn't mean we won't see add-ons. They have them for digital TV in Japan, which allows a person to watch digital TV on their iPhone.
It will come in time...
Just for fun I tested out the tuner and I barely get channel 27 (CIII from Peterborough), although I thought all stations had gone digital.
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Attack the words, not the writer... |
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GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | said by Savant:There are LOADS of non-mainstream phones that have TV tuners in them. I own one. If by "non-mainstream" you mean "illegal KIRF" :P
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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| said by Guspaz:said by Savant:There are LOADS of non-mainstream phones that have TV tuners in them. I own one. If by "non-mainstream" you mean "illegal KIRF" :P Most of them are not illegal. Yes, they have a similar form factor to the I-KoolAid, but it's not the first phone in that form-factor to come to the market and many other manufacturers came up with a similar form factor, you know those KIRF makers like HTC, Nokia, Motorola and Samsung, to name a couple.
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If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw |
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 StyvasGolf Canucks GolfPremium
join:2004-09-15
Hamilton, ON | reply to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:said by CanadianRip:Because UHF & VHF signals require Antennas that are much larger than a phone in order to work effectively.
I agree with this. In fact, when I got my first digital TV when I lived in Toronto, even a full-size set of rabbit ears didn't work all that reliably for either ATSC or, for that matter, NTSC, even though I was right in the city. Didn't get decent reception until I got my Channel Master UHF antenna, at which point I not only got Toronto but all the Buffalo stations. That was the point where I canceled my cable TV! Which one do you have? I Googled it and realized it's a brand, not a specific product. I'm extremely interested in going this route.
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"Moving your Tylenol to the low shelf in your medicine cabinet is not the way to prevent children from falling off a stool when reaching for the top shelf." (said by Savant, May 2008) |
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