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Ledgem

join:2011-09-30
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME

1 recommendation

[DSL] From Verizon to DSL Extreme - Questions

To make a long story short, I've been using Verizon for a month and a half, and my first bill revealed that I'll be paying $64 per month when I originally signed up for a $29.99 internet plan with the cheapest mandatory phone plan that I could get ($8 and some cents). The reason has to do with other fees related to the dial tone line. I do not even own a dial tone phone. That's a lot of money to pay for something that I have no use for.

Some Verizon users suggested DSL Extreme and remarked that DSL E can convert the line to a "dry loop" (or naked DSL) service. That's very appealing, and the website indicates that they can provide service to me. So, I have three questions:

1) How truthful is DSL Extreme's pricing? I realize that hidden fees and taxes are region-dependent, but the pricing on the DSL E website changes when you enter your address. Should I expect to pay what they say, or am I going to be paying more? If more, should I expect the price to be about $5 more? About $10 more?

2) Former Verizon users: does Verizon's "line quality" ever-adjusting speed-limiting garbage affect your speeds with DSL Extreme as well?

3) Former Verizon users: I'm not under contract with Verizon, but has anyone made a switch to DSL E this quickly after starting service with Verizon before? Should I expect them to give me any trouble over it? They can have their modem back, if they want it (I'm using my former DSL provider's modem), but I'm wary of being hit with some sort of penalty fee. Especially since they recently changed their terms of service so that customers can't take them to court...

Lastly, I read somewhere in this forum not to terminate service with Verizon, but to have DSL Extreme transition it over. I'd plan to do it that way.

Thank you very much!


dslx_nick
Premium,VIP
join:2011-12-24
Chatsworth, CA
kudos:30

1 recommendation

The initial pricing you see on the website is available to new customers in select AT&T areas signing up for a 12-month contract using a dynamic IP, as is stated on the page. You are seeing different pricing because you are not in an AT&T area at all - you're in a Verizon area, as our website realizes once you plug in your street address.

As long as you're using Verizon DSL (using copper lines specifically, not FIOS), then yes: keep your service with Verizon active until after you've switched over to DSL Extreme, to minimize or eliminate downtime. Otherwise, you're looking at about a week or so of downtime.


CCarson

join:2001-07-22
Redlands, CA
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
reply to Ledgem
I'm a DSL Extreme dry loop customer in Verizon territory. I pay $29.95/mo and the only fee added to that is a Verizon "Supplier Recovery Fee" of $2.88, for a total bill of $32.83/mo (on a 12-month contract).

*Edit*
I was unaware of any line adjustments made by Verizon while I was a DSL customer of theirs. With DSLX, my speed tests have been consistent; is there a way to test for line speed adjustments other than by doing speed tests?

gbogdanoff

join:2011-04-13
Long Beach, CA
reply to Ledgem
speed tests show what is happening between the modem and computer. the modem stats actually show what speed that the system is connected at.

to answer the op,

1. aside from whatever taxes and fees that are added by telco or government, the price you see is the price you get.

2. no.

3. no, they shouldn't make any trouble. on a bad day, anything can happen, but if you left the switchover to dslx, it should be mostly painless.

Ledgem

join:2011-09-30
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
reply to dslx_nick
dslx_nick, I've seen your responses to some of the other threads here. Combined with the fact that you responded on a national holiday is impressive to me (not that I want to encourage you to be a workaholic). After considering CCarson and gbogdanoff's comments, I've decided to switch over. I submitted my order to DSL Extreme a few minutes ago. I presume there will be instructions on when to cut service with Verizon (and what I'm supposed to tell them to cut, if not everything), and instructions on how to convert the service to "dry loop" DSL. If not, you might have a chance to get some kudos from me, Nick

CCarson, I don't know of any way to determine whether line quality monitoring is enabled or disabled other than speed tests. If you were a Verizon customer for a long time, I don't know if it would have affected you, either. I'm not sure that they turned it on for everyone, or if it was only for customers signing on after a certain period and older customers who changed their service plan. I would be curious to know if we're still subject to the line monitoring, since we're technically on Verizon's wires. Any comment, Nick?


dslx_nick
Premium,VIP
join:2011-12-24
Chatsworth, CA
kudos:30

1 recommendation

Heh. Well, I'm here today (I'll be out ~7pm though, to catch a few burgers before the grill gets cold), but our Orders dept. has the day off so let me get you some info in the meantime.

With regards to the switch to dryloop, in some cases they're able to keep the same phone number identifier for the dryloop line, and in others they have to assign a different 'fake' number to the circuit; our Orders dept. will have more info on that.

With regards to stopping service with Verizon once they've done the switch-over: yeah, there's actually two things to be turned off with Verizon, the voice signal and the DSL billing, and you'll want to handle each a little differently; Orders will provide instructions for each. We'll basically need you to tell Verizon in advance "hey guys, it's ok for DSL Extreme to turn off my voice dial tone", and then after you're switched over you'll need to tell Verizon "please stop billing me for DSL, I've switched providers".

We don't do any sort of automated line monitoring for individual circuits. We don't track usage (no data caps), so we generally just set the max speed to whatever you're provisioned for and leave it alone. We do have traffic monitoring on a more general scale to detect and prevent problems with our servers, congestion, etc., but nothing specific to a single circuit (if we see a server with NO traffic passing through, for example, we know there's a problem). If you call in with a problem, then we'll run individual on-demand line tests on your circuit at that time for troubleshooting purposes, and if we need to we can tweak some of the settings (such as changing the target noise margin to compensate for certain physical factors)... but generally speaking, as long as everything is working properly we don't meddle with it.

Ledgem

join:2011-09-30
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
Hi Nick,

My internet through Verizon wasn't working as of some time this morning. I changed my PPPoE information to use my DSL Extreme account instead of Verizon and that allowed me to get online. I presume this means that the switch-over is complete.

I have not yet received any emails from DSL Extreme beyond the initial order confirmation and activation date (which is set for 7/13). I know you said that there would be instructions provided for how to terminate my Verizon services; are those going to come soon? I'd like to cancel those services ASAP to decrease the amount they'll bill me for.

My speeds are also slower than expected (and slower than I was getting with Verizon). Is that normal, particularly since the switch just occurred today and since services from Verizon are still active?


dslx_nick
Premium,VIP
join:2011-12-24
Chatsworth, CA
kudos:30
I've got your account here... looks like your activation date is the 13th but we've got you switched over ahead of schedule, so yay. Some of the paperwork hasn't caught up yet, though, so there are still some 'blank areas' that are normally populated, and it doesn't look like the line has re-synced up to full speed yet. That'll probably get done overnight; I'll check on it tomorrow morning, and if it isn't showing full speed by then I'll have a tech get on that for you.

I believe our sales reps usually tell you the instructions directly over the phone when you're placing the order, but at any rate, if you're getting your DSL signal from us now then yes, you can call Verizon and have them stop billing you. Specifically, tell them to *stop billing you because you've switched providers* - don't ask them to 'disconnect my DSL' or 'cancel my DSL' (because if you do that, there's a fair chance someone at Verizon will misunderstand and cut off your DSL from us).

I'd wait at least until tomorrow to call Verizon, make sure you're getting your full speed first.

Ledgem

join:2011-09-30
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
Thank you for the quick reply! I checked this morning and the speeds are now the same as I was getting from Verizon before (~1.8 mbps down). I had assumed that the speeds were limited due to the automated line quality throttling that Verizon uses, but it may be that this is the limit of what my line can do. That would be disappointing.

I did my order online, so I haven't been in contact with any DSL Extreme personnel aside from you. At this point would it be OK for me to tell them to cancel the dial tone line as well?


dslx_nick
Premium,VIP
join:2011-12-24
Chatsworth, CA
kudos:30
quote:
I did my order online, so I haven't been in contact with any DSL Extreme personnel aside from you. At this point would it be OK for me to tell them to cancel the dial tone line as well?
Ack, no. There's a reason I said they'd give you instructions both before and after. If you want dryloop you need to specify that during your order, so that when our ordering dept. submits the order they can take that into account: We'll basically need you to tell Verizon in advance "hey guys, it's ok for DSL Extreme to turn off my voice dial tone"

I'll have a sales rep get in touch with you with regards to converting to dryloop. Sorry, I didn't realize you'd submitted the order online.


sashwa
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-29
Alcatraz
kudos:19
reply to Ledgem

(topic move) [DSL] From Verizon to DSL Extreme - Questions - scd

Moderator Action
The post that was here, has been moved to a new topic .. »[DSL] From Verizon to DSL Extreme - Questions - scdad

maikii

join:2012-08-08
Pacific Palisades, CA

1 recommendation

reply to Ledgem

Re: [DSL] From Verizon to DSL Extreme - Questions

First of all, I too am very fed up with Verizon, and am thinking of switching to DSLX. However, I have known people who have had DSLX, know something about it, so I think you should be aware of some things.

Yes, there are definitely hidden charges with DSLX, more so than with Verizon. Your monthly bill will not be the charge advertised. This is partly Verizon's fault, but still DSLX should be more honest about it. I hope you are aware that your DSL through DSLX will still actually be through Verizon, but DSLX is reselling it, offering tech support and other features. You shouldn't necessarily expect better DSL then. (Unless DSLX is able to resolve certain technical problems you are having.)

I believe that the telcos used to have to sell the DSL to 3rd party resellers like DSLX, so that the latter could still compete with the telcos on price and make a profit. But the telcos bribed our legislators to change that, and 3rd party DSL resellers have to pay Verizon and ATT the same price for the DSL that we have to pay, no discount at all! Therefore, in order to make something from it, 3rd party resellers have to add another fee so that they can earn something.

They do not add that extra charge to their advertised price, as then their prices would look higher than Verizon. It is an extra added-on charge, besides any other added charges. You need to ask about that, make sure you know exactly all charges on your monthly bill before signing up.

Furthermore, to hook you in, they offer a promotional price for one year. (They may even lose money on that promo price, but do it to get you with them. After that year, your monthly bill could rise a lot. You need to ask how much it will be after a year. I would guess higher than what you are now paying with Verizon (after more than a year).

So don't switch to DSLX to save money, as in the long run it will likely cost you more. Or if you think the DSL will be better--no it won't--still all going through Verizon.

However, you may find some things definitely better with DSLX--like customer service and tech support. I don't know how good they are, and see some complaints on this board. My experience with Verizon customer and tech support, however, have been absolutely horrendous, the worst ever! Therefore, I think even with some complaints here, you will likely get better support with DSLX than Verizon. (It really cannot get any worse than the latter.) Also, if you use personal web space, Verizon's has become totally unusable with their dropping FTP support. I don't know about DSLX personal web space these days, but likely better than VZ. VZ dropped newsgroup support. If DSLX still has it, and you use that, definitely a plus for DSLX.

So don't expect better pricing (certainly not after a year) or better DSL with DSLX, but you might get better support and peripheral services.

If anything I wrote is incorrect, please correct me.

Let us know your experiences.


CCarson

join:2001-07-22
Redlands, CA
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME

1 recommendation

I can only speak about my experiences...

1. The only fee I see on my bill is the one I mentioned in my post, and it is mentioned in the appropriate FAQ entry.

2. DSLX resells service on your local carrier's DSL...be it AT&T or Verizon (or possibly others, too?). True, I knew this going in; I don't know if that's mentioned in the FAQs. It seems to be pretty common knowledge, but perhaps a rank beginner's FAQ could mention it...

3. I did get stung by the second-year non-promotional price bump. At the time I didn't consider it properly covered in the FAQs, but I haven't looked recently. Still, my non-promo monthly price is no more than Verizon's.

4. I'm a daily user of FTP and web space, and an occasional newsgroup reader, so I can confirm they're still available through DSLX.


dslx_nick
Premium,VIP
join:2011-12-24
Chatsworth, CA
kudos:30

1 recommendation

reply to maikii
said by maikii:

Yes, there are definitely hidden charges with DSLX, more so than with Verizon... 3rd party DSL resellers have to pay Verizon and ATT the same price for the DSL that we have to pay, no discount at all! Therefore, in order to make something from it, 3rd party resellers have to add another fee so that they can earn something.

Nope. The telco charges us the SSR (which CCarson mentioned), which we pass onto you; we don't profit off that. We manage to negotiate lower prices from the telco, then add something to that so we can stay in business, and then post that total (minus the SSR) as the advertised price. There are no hidden fees.

The main time I hear complaints about 'hidden fees' are when people cancel an annual contract before the year is up, and then complain about the ETF (Early Termination Fee). The ETF is another fee that the telcos charge, and we in turn pass onto the customer, just like the SSR; similarly, we don't profit from that either. (That said, it's called an ANNUAL contract for a reason... and there's nothing hidden about it, as it's listed clearly in our Terms and Conditions, and anyone placing an order over the phone is advised of such directly by the sales rep)

Ledgem

join:2011-09-30
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
reply to maikii
I appreciate the message, maikii. At this point I've been with DSL Extreme for a few weeks. I'm waiting until I receive my first bill to write a review. As of now I have nothing but good things to say. Verizon had me capped at 1.5 Mbps; DSL Extreme had them check the line and set me to 3 Mbps. Arguably I could have had Verizon redo my speed, but that depends on whether you choose to believe that Verizon made a mistake when they set my speed cap or if it was intentional.

Regarding the pricing, DSL Extreme would need to charge something truly horrendous to exceed what I was paying with Verizon. Verizon's base rate for DSL wasn't bad, but the charges associated with the dial tone line literally doubled my bill (and as of a few months ago, dry loop - or "naked DSL" for former Windstream users - is no longer an option). I hope that DSL Extreme will not take advantage of that fact and charge 1.5x more in the second year (even though it would still be cheaper...), but that's really where the major source of savings comes from.

maikii

join:2012-08-08
Pacific Palisades, CA
Hi Ledgem,

I understand now. Verizon made you have a landline phone line, in order to have DSL with them, and DSLX will sell you DSL without a landline. In that case, no doubt, absolutely, you save money with DSLX.

I was just pointing out that considering only the DSL price itself, no one should think they will save money with DSLX over VZ, and that more likely it will cost a few dollars monthly more with DSLX (or other 3rd party DSL ISP), due to that extra charge they add on. They have no choice but to charge you the VZ charge plus that extra $3 fee. But the difference in landline vs dry loop will certainly save you a lot.

In my case, another price consideration. I signed up to get a "lifetime" price of $29.99 monthly from Verizon for 3mbps plan. I believe I fulfilled the two year contract to get that. If I change to DSLX, after the first promotional year, I would guess that my rate would be higher (like $35), plus that extra charge. Or would they after a year honor the VZ lifetime rate? (With the $3 extra charge added, of course.)

However, three dollars extra per month may very well be worth it, considering the problems many of us are having with VZ support, capping our lines at half speed, etc.

That is very good to hear that when you switched to DSLX, they were able to get rid of VZ's 1.5 cap on your speed, and you now get the 3mbps that you pay for. How many others here have experienced that?

Minni

join:2010-04-20
When I signed on to DSLX Dry Loop (in NY) about 2 years ago, the contract was for 1.5mbs at $27.83/month total (including the few-dollars line charge).

When the 1st year was up, they informed me they were raising the rate (this was after the stability had become erratic during the last few months of that year).

Since I didn't feel like paying thirty-something per month, I chose to be downgraded to 1mbs for the same $27.83/month.

Well.. the contract for the 1mbs is soon due to expire, and I wonder what bombshell will be thrown at me next. What I'm rooting for, is that zero-point energy should become the new paradigm. (i.e. free wireless communication, albeit without all the EMFs that fry me.


sbcondor83

@verizon.net
reply to maikii
just want to add another vote of no-confidence for verizon, and an early vote of confidence for DSLExtreme.

background: i had a real nice grandfathered-in dry loop rate on verizon for slow home internet (~1mbps down). i wanted to get my speed up so i could stream some olympics. verizon's website sucks, a phone call was no better, but finally - after nearly 2 hours of calls, browsing, and the online chat function - i thought i found what i wanted. they told me the speed would be upgraded to 10-15mbps by friday (opening ceremonies). by thursday, a check of the online order status showed that friday had turned into monday. i thought a phone call straightened it out, but by saturday it was still slow (and streaming olympics was painful, if not impossible). monday brought no change, and basically started a daily phone conversation with verizon in which my billing rate varied 3 times, but my internet speed never went over 1mbps. i was on the phone with tech support, billing, customer service...got a different story every time, and nobody seemed to know what the previous person had done. hysterically, one of the reps even gave me a ticket # for "complex situations" or something like that, which i think was a total farce, because none of the other reps verified that, or even acknowledged such a thing existed, and the call that was supposed to come from "complex situations" never came. finally a tech came out to the house, and confirmed that my speed was throttled at 1mpbs, despite everyone at verizon telling me it had been changed, and of course, billing me to reflect that change. the tech said that at my location i could probably only get 5mbps anyhow.

so this was the thursday before the closing ceremonies. i had no confidence that verizon could do anything to get me a higher speed before the weekend, so i went back to the slower (1mbps) speed, but they couldn't give me my old rate, and i would now have to pay ~$12 more per month, which was about a 50% increase over my previous rate. so maddening. after a little research, and a friend who had switched, i decided to go to DSLExtreme.

the ordering was easy online, and the system got turned on the day i was expecting it to (today), and already i'm getting the advertised speed of ~3mbps, and it's basically about ~$3 more/month than my old grandfathered in rate, for 3 times the speed, and ~$8 less than verizon was going to charge me for the slower (1mbps) speed.

i would warn that any new user should spend a little time researching their modem/router/gateway and how to activate DSLExtreme, because i think i would have been lost without the 30-45 minutes i spent preparing for the switch (although i would guess that support could have walked me through it in 5 minutes, it was easy).

overall, i have a huge thumbs-down for verizon. can't say enough bad things about them. and so far, an early but positive report for DSLExtreme.