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XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

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XXXXXXXXXXX1

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Re: Garden Tractors: Husqvarna, Cub Cadet, John Deere.. Others?

Well, did my homework and my shopping, and here's how it played out:

John Deere: The X500 and X300 series are great tractors, especially the X500. But I wasn't blown away honestly. I thought they were well built and riding on the X500 seemed very solid and the unit had plenty of power, but total with tax for the X500 was north of $6K, and I just can't justify that kind of money. When reviewing it after all options were on the table, I just thought it was too much money for not enough machine (for both the X300 and X500). Sorry John Deere fans...

Cub Cadet: Interesting side story in a moment... But both the Series 2000 and Series 1000 felt kinda chintzy to me. Fit and finish was also an issue, as some of the body panels didn't seem to line up correctly. And the series 2000 tractors started at over $4K... with no mower deck. That was $600-$800 more on top of the tractor's price, putting it slightly behind the John Deere. Needless to say, that was a no.
As a sidenote here, one of the dealers I went to was a Cub Cadet repair shop but not a Cub dealer. He told me to stay away from Cub Cadet like the plague- he said the units have been made by MTD now (for about a decade, as was mentioned in this thread I think) and they've been getting less and less reliable. He said the Kohler engines used in them are really bad as of late and have been giving them a lot of business with warranty work. He even took me in the back and sure enough... there was a line of virtually new Cub Cadet tractors all being worked on. So, I decided that I'd stay away from them at almost any price.

Runner-up: I went to a Husqvarna dealer to try out the YTH24V48LS, which is a yard tractor that has the locking differential. It is a really nice tractor for the money. It felt solid, was very responsive, and cut my test patch of grass well. I had read that the drivetrain in them has been problematic, especially for extensive hill use. It uses the Tuff Torq K46 with the locking differential. Upon researching it, it appears failure prone as the weak link in this tractor lineup. And the differential only locks internally when the tractor senses slippage at the wheels, so the operator can't control it. Plus the rear end in it looked kinda chintzy and the rear wheels were comparably small. For what it's worth, the sales rep said that their warranty work on those tractors has been minimal (but I obviously can't confirm that myself). For flatter land use, I think it would be a solid choice, but I passed on this model as I just didn't think it looked beefy enough. I was impressed, but not blown away.

Winner: Right next to the YTH machine was the GTH27V48LS (the sister to the GTH24V52LS). The difference between the sister models is that the display model had the Briggs & Stratton 27hp engine, and the one I wanted to test has the Kawasaki 24hp engine. This tractor felt solid and heavy with very large rear wheels, a fabricated mowing deck, and just a pretty mean look about it. It has a Hydro-Gear drivetrain, which is limited-slip, but the rear end looks really beefy and even though it doesn't have the locking differential, the weight on the much larger wheels gives it plenty of bite. Research indicates that the Hydro-Gear is a very reliable unit... much more so than the K46. When I test drove it, it could REALLY move too with plenty of power to spare. I took it up and down the fairly steep test area with the blades engaged, and it was the most responsive of all the tractors I tested even though it had far more weight than most (or maybe all!?!). Since it's their garden tractor model, it is rated for all the attachments including the ground engaging ones. I was very impressed. I didn't bite on the spot, but I kinda knew this was the one.

I went and had a cold soda, looked over all the options, and chose the GTH with the Kawasaki engine. It seemed to be the sweet spot of value amongst features, capabilities and price. The Briggs seems to be a solid option too, but my research and word of mouth from others points to the Kawasaki as the better engine for a bit more than the Briggs. And the dealer is local to me and has been in business a long time. I've used their shop from time to time and have always gotten good work and good service. All in all, homework done and selection made... now it's time to get to work and cut the grass..

fluffybunny
@teksavvy.com

fluffybunny to XXXXXXXXXXX1

Anon

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at those prices you can get one of these instead :
»www.robotshop.com/lawnbo ··· ess.html

it covers two acres. just set and forget.

Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky
join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC

Draiman to XXXXXXXXXXX1

Member

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It sounds like your dealer had an old YTH24V48LS. The locking differential is operator control per Husqvarna's website.

"Hydrostatic transmission with locking differential
Features a hydrostatic transmission that produces a smooth, variable forward and reverse speed and a pedal operated locking rear differential for increased traction while cutting on slopes or wet grass."

»www.husqvarna.com/us/pro ··· 24v48ls/

Does that GTH have a locking differential?
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

said by Draiman:

It sounds like your dealer had an old YTH24V48LS. The locking differential is operator control per Husqvarna's website.

"Hydrostatic transmission with locking differential
Features a hydrostatic transmission that produces a smooth, variable forward and reverse speed and a pedal operated locking rear differential for increased traction while cutting on slopes or wet grass."

»www.husqvarna.com/us/pro ··· 24v48ls/

Does that GTH have a locking differential?

Dealer must have had an older model because none of the units on display had a pedal operated locking rear differential... he said it was automatic when the unit sensed wheel slippage.

The GTH does not have locking rear differential, but given my research, the K46LD had a major recall not long ago for a serious braking system failure (especially on hills!), and quite a few sites indicated that that transmission was weak and failure prone... the weakest link in the tractor actually. My research on the GTH's Hydro-Gear G730 indicated it to be a better, far more rugged transmission- though it lacks locking differential.

I plan on trying to use the tractor as-built, and if I have traction issues, I'll get the wheel weights and go from there. Worst case scenario, I'll use my trusty push mower for the sections of hills that are above the safe use of the GTH and use the tractor for the vast bulk of the yard and heavy duty yard chores.

Had the K46LD had a better reputation as a quality, durable tranny, I might have bit for it, but just looking at the YTH and GTH side by side, you could see a clear difference in the heavy duty nature of the GTH over YTH.
XXXXXXXXXXX1

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XXXXXXXXXXX1

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said by XXXXXXXXXXX1:

The Briggs seems to be a solid option too, but my research and word of mouth from others points to the Kawasaki as the better engine for a bit more than the Briggs.

Anyone have opinions or perspective on the Kawasaki FR series engines vs. the Briggs & Stratton Endurance series engines for garden tractor applications?

The GTH with the Kawasaki and 52" deck is $200 more than the GTH with the Briggs and 48" deck. Otherwise, they are the same exact tractor. Is the Kawasaki worth the $200 premium? The GTH with the Kawasaki is backordered for 3-4 weeks where the Briggs is available right off the showroom today. I would think that speaks volumes about what consumers have decided but was hoping someone could shed some light on that in this thread. Is the Briggs just about the same quality as the Kawasaki or is this a night and day difference? Tks.

Asterix
Premium Member
join:2002-09-18
Nazareth, PA

Asterix

Premium Member

Go with the Kawasaki. They are presumed to be better engines.
I have the zero turn Cub Cadet RZT 54" with Kawasaki engine.. love it.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

Thanks for the advice. I can't find anyone who has argued for the Briggs, so I'll hurry up and wait for my tractor with the Kawasaki.

mattmag

join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois

mattmag



Nothing wrong with a Briggs at all. I've never owned anything else, and they are a reliable workhorse in the mowing world.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

My JD I bought from a JD last year has a 2 cylinder 22 hp Briggs engine instead of the Kohler I'm used to on JD Mowers. So far no complaints.
49528867 (banned)
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

49528867 (banned)

Member

said by Jack_in_VA:

My JD I bought from a JD last year has a 2 cylinder 22 hp Briggs engine instead of the Kohler I'm used to on JD Mowers. So far no complaints.

I have worked with a lot of air cooled engines and there was a time in the past where a Kohler would deliver a decent amount of hoursepower for about twice as long as a Briggs, literally 3000 hours versus 1500 for a Briggs.

However times are a changing and in my opinion Kohler has lost that edge due to improvements made by Briggs primarily in their Intek line of engines.

For a number of years Briggs lagged even Generac in quality, way back Generac went with pressurized lubrication for the mains while Briggs added an oil pump which only circulated oil through the filter sticking with a slinger to distribute oil around the crankcase, stupid stuff but they where stuck in an engineering rut which they finally got out of.

Then there’s Hondas…

Wayne
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

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said by 49528867:

I have worked with a lot of air cooled engines and there was a time in the past where a Kohler would deliver a decent amount of hoursepower for about twice as long as a Briggs, literally 3000 hours versus 1500 for a Briggs.

However times are a changing and in my opinion Kohler has lost that edge due to improvements made by Briggs primarily in their Intek line of engines.

For a number of years Briggs lagged even Generac in quality, way back Generac went with pressurized lubrication for the mains while Briggs added an oil pump which only circulated oil through the filter sticking with a slinger to distribute oil around the crankcase, stupid stuff but they where stuck in an engineering rut which they finally got out of.

Then there’s Hondas…

Wayne

While interesting information, it doesn't help answer the question of Kawasaki vs Briggs... specifically Kawasaki FR series vs Briggs Endurance series.
Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

Critsmcgee to XXXXXXXXXXX1

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said by XXXXXXXXXXX1:

said by XXXXXXXXXXX1:

The Briggs seems to be a solid option too, but my research and word of mouth from others points to the Kawasaki as the better engine for a bit more than the Briggs.

Anyone have opinions or perspective on the Kawasaki FR series engines vs. the Briggs & Stratton Endurance series engines for garden tractor applications?

The GTH with the Kawasaki and 52" deck is $200 more than the GTH with the Briggs and 48" deck. Otherwise, they are the same exact tractor. Is the Kawasaki worth the $200 premium? The GTH with the Kawasaki is backordered for 3-4 weeks where the Briggs is available right off the showroom today. I would think that speaks volumes about what consumers have decided but was hoping someone could shed some light on that in this thread. Is the Briggs just about the same quality as the Kawasaki or is this a night and day difference? Tks.

My local dealer only carries Kawasaki mowers if that's an option for the model. They will special order a B&S model if requested but don't stock them.

Subaru
1-3-2-4
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join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT

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I had a riding mower flip on me once.. I was in my early teens and I took it up a slight incline and with the motor being in the rear (can't remember the brand) it flipped... Lucky for me I jumped out of the seat just before I felt the balance get crazy.

scary how it happened so fast.

Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium Member
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

Daarken

Premium Member

A friend of mine lost his sister due to the riding mower flipping and pinning her underwater while she was mowing near a ditch.

Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium Member
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT

Subaru

Premium Member

Wow that's very sad a ditch was near by but maybe like 50 ft or so away but it was never full of water.. I think it was more for run-off.
Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

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You have to know how to operate the riding mower properly on hills so that it won't flip. You would mow a hill side to side with a walk-behind or wide-area mower but with a rider you do straight up and down. You also need to know the slope pitch to know if your mower can handle it. Tons of people flip mowers each year because they don't know any better.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

said by Critsmcgee:

You have to know how to operate the riding mower properly on hills so that it won't flip. You would mow a hill side to side with a walk-behind or wide-area mower but with a rider you do straight up and down. You also need to know the slope pitch to know if your mower can handle it. Tons of people flip mowers each year because they don't know any better.

That is true. Riders can easily tip if not handled properly. I'm looking into wheel weights to lower the center of gravity and improve traction. I also know you can fill the tires with beet juice (Rim Guard- »www.rimguard.biz/) for added weight and a lower center of gravity.

But cardinal rules still apply- only mow straight up and down, and use reasonable judgement with respect to steepness of slope vs tractor capabilities.
DrD
join:2008-03-03
Harrisonville, MO

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My Dixie Chopper is the bomb! It's never had any problems in the 5 years I've had it, and I mow just over 2 acres with it.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

Rim Guard

In case anyone is interested, there is a pretty cool product that replaces about 75% of air in a tractor's tire with basically modified beet juice that adds really heavy weight that lowers the center of gravity and makes the tractor safer and gives it more traction. It's called Rim Guard:

»www.rimguard.biz/

It's pretty cheap actually... cheaper and more effective than wheel weights alone. You can call them and they'll give you the closest dealers to you and how many gallons you'll need based on your tire sizes.

They told me to make sure you swap out any plastic stems for metal ones for best effectiveness of the product. Plastic stems can degrade over time but metal will not. Check it out!

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

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robbin

Mod

Thanks for the info on Rim Guard. I was planning on adding water when I put new tires on my Cub Cadet. I use my tractor on fairly rugged terrain with slopes and ballast in the tires should help. I am also going to replace the turf tires with ribbed lug tread tractor type tires. Between the new tires and Rim Guard I hope to eliminate most of my wheel slippage. Due to the small size of my tires, the added weight of the Rim Guard should be an advantage over water. Unfortunately they do not have any dealers this far south since most just use plain water in this area. I'll pick some up next time I'm in Oklahoma City as they have a dealer there.
Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

Critsmcgee

Member

said by robbin:

I am also going to replace the turf tires with ribbed tractor type of tires.

Are you taking about AG aka Agricultural tires?

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

robbin

Mod

They are sometimes called that. Actually I used the wrong word -- I should have said Lug treads.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
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join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

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said by robbin:

Thanks for the info on Rim Guard. I was planning on adding water when I put new tires on my Cub Cadet. I use my tractor on fairly rugged terrain with slopes and ballast in the tires should help. I am also going to replace the turf tires with ribbed lug tread tractor type tires. Between the new tires and Rim Guard I hope to eliminate most of my wheel slippage. Due to the small size of my tires, the added weight of the Rim Guard should be an advantage over water. Unfortunately they do not have any dealers this far south since most just use plain water in this area. I'll pick some up next time I'm in Oklahoma City as they have a dealer there.

Glad I could help. The Husqvarna dealer I do business with does not install Rim Guard, but recommended a local shop that does and offered to take the tires off the tractor before delivery so I can have them filled. He said he fills his personal tractors and loves Rim Guard- it adds the maximum amount of weight to lower the center of gravity, drastically improves traction, adds no strain to the tractor's axles and has none of the adverse effects of calcium chloride (rim rot).

I can't speak first hand about it yet, but from all my research, it seems like a truly great product that does one thing extremely well.