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EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:10

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to PeteC2

Re: Customer-owned modems -- a preemptive plea to Comcast

said by PeteC2:

It does not mean that self-own can't pay off, but it is not the panacea that some assume that it is either.

All of life is a "gamble" ! I owned an old Moto SB5100 that cost around forty dollars in 2003 that I used on CC for seven years. I'd say that it more than paid for itself in saved rental fees !

*Individual results may vary.


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

Trust NO ONE...




--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Expand your moderator at work


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to koitsu

Re: Customer-owned modems -- a preemptive plea to Comcast

I own all of my CPE, with the exception of the CableCards in my TiVo boxes. My Comcast bill runs about $143 a month with Blast Internet and Digital Preferred. The first CableCard is free, the second one in the second TiVo box is $7.45 per month. I am wondering if it is illegal to charge an additional outlet fee for a CableCard when they don't with their own equipment.

As for my modem, I own a Motorola 6120 although I am thinking of upgrading to the 6121. Owning my own modems and my own DVRs saves me a about $40 per month as Comcast charges about $17 per DVR in my area (x2 = $34 + 7 for the modem =41). I think it is probably higher now as it has been a few years since I rented a CC DVR. I bought the TiVo boxes in 2010 and the modem in either late 2009 or early 2010.

If they force me to rent their equipment, I'll take my Internet to Verizon Wireless home fusion and my TV to DirecTV.


EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:10
said by IowaCowboy:

As for my modem, I own a Motorola 6120 although I am thinking of upgrading to the 6121.

FWIW, that would be more like a lateral move than an upgrade.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to IowaCowboy
Are people actually arguing support for Comcast to go the way of Charter and Sonic?


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

But there is the recognition that both customer-owned equipment and rented equipment serve differnt groups and are equally important.
I see nobody advocating no choice.
I think one thing to consider if you still think the rental fee is "too high" or "pure profit".... IF that was indeed so, third parties (rent-a -centers, best-buy, perhaps even manufacters) would be in the rental, rent to own business for a buck or 2 less.


JigglyWiggly

join:2009-07-12
Pleasanton, CA
i will rage hard if they do that


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to PeteC2
said by PeteC2:

said by EG:

said by plencnerb:

and with that the added responsibility to keep it updated (firmware changes),

FWIW, CC does that regardless of whether you own it or not.

That is an important point though, since Comcast does control the modem's firmware, regardless of self-owned or rented...a lot of folks do not realize that.

My point is that the main argument over self-ownership is "freedom from rental", rather than any real measure of user "control". It does not mean that self-own can't pay off, but it is not the panacea that some assume that it is either.

I did not know that. I figured if the modem was your own (not rented), then it was up to you to keep up to speed on the firmware, and update it as needed.

The question I have is what advantages does one have with the purchase of their own modem, compared to one that is leased? I do understand the side of saving money, but beyond that, what benefit do you get? If the modem that is being rented is a Combo device (Modem / Router, or Modem / Wireless Gateway), I do get that Comcast may lock down certain configurations from being changed. But, (correct me if I'm wrong), those configurations are on the Router / Wireless Gateway side of things, not the modem.

Lets say the modem I can get without a problem from Comcast is the Motorola SURFboard SB5101 Cable Modem. I can also buy it brand new from Best Buy for $59.99. Outside of the price (if I rented it at $7 a month for 24 months, I would have paid $168, which is more then twice the cost of the modem from Best Buy), what else do I gain? Sure, I can go to the modem "config" page (192.168.0.1), but nothing there is changeable.... its all read-only information.

Is there something else (again, besides price) that I'm missing, that is an advantage to owning your own modem?

I do want to say that this may be a bit OT, but I have wondered this for a while now. The bottom line for this thread is that I would never want Comcast to force its users to rent, like some other ISP's are doing (the whole basis for this thread). Choice is a good thing, and I'm glad they allow people who want to own their own to do so. I'm just trying to figure out what the benefits (again, outside of price) are to own the modem yourself instead of rent.

Thanks,

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
Owning your own modem is a gamble. You are betting that you will be able to use it long enough before it becomes "obsolete", or dies, to have it cost less than paying the monthly rental fee.

OTOH if you are having connectivity problems, chance are that there will be a knee jerk reaction from tier 1 phone support CSRs to blame your modem for any problem. If that modem belongs to the ISP, then it is their responsibility to replace it. If that modem belongs to you, then you may need to find another modem (purchased or borrowed) to connect to the ISP network to prove it is not your modem causing the problem. This is a common industry practice, and it is not just a residential customer (or a cable ISP) practice. I have on many occasions had to drive multiple hours to replace a modem or CSU/DSU for a VAR's enterprise level customer before the LEC would even bother to troubleshoot an obvious circuit problem. In this example, the end customer was not responsible for replacing the modem or CSU/DSU before the LEC would do anything, but the LEC's customer (the VAR) was required to do so. [disclaimer]YMMV[/disclaimer]
--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower


clic

@comcast.net
reply to koitsu
I hope Comcast keeps this option as well. As others have stated, Comcast controls the firmware regardless -- the modem I supplied downloaded firmware as part of the online activation procedure.

What my modem did for me, however, that the Comcast-supplied one did not is allow me to put it into bridge mode. It also gave me DOCSIS 3 capability. Surprisingly the Comcast one was not a D3 modem, despite being only one of 4 supported devices (on business class) and 2 Comcast-supplied ones.

Tekie

join:2008-01-03
Colonial Heights, VA
reply to koitsu
/signed

Quoting newview here "I do NOT want your previously used modem covered with dings & dust"

I'm a bit OCD about my hardware and have likely spent more time deciding which modems and routers to use than Comcast has since their entry into the ISP market.
Plus there's nothing that compares to that new electronics smell that hits the nostrils when opening new toys.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

3 recommendations

reply to koitsu
I will give this one bit of input on customer owned modems... from someone who worked the comcast phones for two years.

Please for the love of god spend the money on a retail boxed modem. Do Not get them off Ebay, Yard sales or Friends or Friend of a Friend. When you have to wait several days or maybe even a week for Tier 2 to purge the modem from the system, its not worth the money saved by fishing Ebay for a CM.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
said by Kearnstd:

I will give this one bit of input on customer owned modems... from someone who worked the comcast phones for two years.

Please for the love of god spend the money on a retail boxed modem. Do Not get them off Ebay, Yard sales or Friends or Friend of a Friend. When you have to wait several days or maybe even a week for Tier 2 to purge the modem from the system, its not worth the money saved by fishing Ebay for a CM.

I agree with you 100 percent. I will only buy my electronics (and not just modems or other subscription based electronics) from a traditional brick and mortar big box store, preferably Best Buy but will also buy from Target and Walmart. I also shop at the Apple Store.

I don't like buying online unless it is specialty items that are not available at local brick and mortars such as parts for my home security system. If I buy online, I'll shop at the reputable sites like BestBuy.com or Apple Online Store. I also have bought cellular phones online but only through the carrier's website (Verizon Wireless). Anything you buy on Amazon or EBay could come from questionable sources or be used/stolen/unreturned Cableco rental equipment.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
Apple sells cable modems? But yeah I totally feel more comfortable about purchasing my stuff at an actual physical store rather then online because I don't like having to wait for things to ship.


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to NetFixer
said by NetFixer:

Owning your own modem is a gamble. You are betting that you will be able to use it long enough before it becomes "obsolete", or dies, to have it cost less than paying the monthly rental fee.

OTOH if you are having connectivity problems, chance are that there will be a knee jerk reaction from tier 1 phone support CSRs to blame your modem for any problem. If that modem belongs to the ISP, then it is their responsibility to replace it. If that modem belongs to you, then you may need to find another modem (purchased or borrowed) to connect to the ISP network to prove it is not your modem causing the problem. This is a common industry practice, and it is not just a residential customer (or a cable ISP) practice. I have on many occasions had to drive multiple hours to replace a modem or CSU/DSU for a VAR's enterprise level customer before the LEC would even bother to troubleshoot an obvious circuit problem. In this example, the end customer was not responsible for replacing the modem or CSU/DSU before the LEC would do anything, but the LEC's customer (the VAR) was required to do so. [disclaimer]YMMV[/disclaimer]

I've had Comcast try to blame my equipment and computers despite the exact same computer working fine when connected to my mobile hotspot. The minute they try to blame my equipment, I ask to speak to a supervisor or just hang up and hope for getting someone else who seems to care. Out of the many modems I have bought over the years, I only had one go bad and it was the result of a cable line/power surge. All the others were mothballed due to obsolescence (D2 and D3 upgrades over the years). Blaming the customer owned equipment shows lack of effort/cutting corners by techs/CSRs, especially if more than one piece (Cableco or customer owned) equipment is acting up. I used to have seperate modems for HSI and CDV (which I no longer have as I now have Verizon Wireline for home phone) and both modems would get kicked offline at the same time due to ingress in the node and the issues were going through the node.


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:

Apple sells cable modems?

I was talking subscription based electronics (anything that requires a subscription to fully function) in General but Best Buy, Target, and Walmart all sell cable modems.

Buying subscription based electronics used/second hand is always a gamble as they can be blacklisted by their respective service providers for something as simple as a delinquent account. I had to buy a new modem because our cable was in someone else's name, person moved out and did not pay the bill so the modem linked to that account (which I bought in the first place) could not be activated when I established service in my name because the modem was associated with a delinquent account. I had to buy a new modem to the tune of $150 at the time (2006). I am glad this person is no longer living with me and my mother.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
Yeah, I can't wait for those subscription based devices to be gotten rid of for the subscription free stuff.

Anyway how the hell did we get onto this when I thought this tread was suppose to be about preventing Comcast from discontinuing support for customer owned equipment?

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to IowaCowboy
I prefer Newegg.com myself. But would never buy anything that has to be registered with a service off Ebay.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
I perfer something that allows paypal.


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to koitsu
I find these threads silly

Comcast would throw you and your family under a bus if it made more money for them.

They don't care.

It is the US corporate way. Anytime they can shift fee's out of the advertised price they will do it. TRUST ME


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4

1 edit
Don't put the Comcast techs and employees in the same basket as their Corporate overlords as I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want any harm to come to our customers and their families. I mean can you imagine ComcastSteve or jlivingood doing something like that? I couldn't, they're too good a people.


SimbaTLK1
Rawrrr

join:2001-09-07
Pittsburgh, PA
reply to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:

I perfer something that allows paypal.

Newegg allows paypal...


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
yup


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:

Don't put the Comcast techs and employees in the same basket as their Corporate overlords

I didn't.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
I know but sometimes when people say "Comcast" as a generalizatin they do


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to PeteC2
Every ISP-provided D3 modem I have used has been utter CRAP, that's 2 through Cox in the Cleveland market and 4 through Comcast in the Bay Area market. All of them would drop the connection if you so much as looked at them funny, with signal levels smack in the center of perfect.

I'm currently using the D2 modem I bought when I was with Comcast in the Detroit market 9 years ago and the only service interruption I've had since switching to this modem was when I bumped the power switch on my UPS while moving stuff around. The Cisco D3 modem they provided most recently was dropping connection anywhere from 10 to 50 times per day, that I noticed during active use.

We're talking SNR of 36.1dB, downstream signal of 3.6dBmV, and 41.4dBmV upstream. The most recent D3 saw similar levels on 8 bonded downstream channels and 4 bonded upstreams; why is a D2 modem with a single channel in each direction faster and infinitely more stable?

If I couldn't own my own modem, I wouldn't be here posting, I would have canceled the service, flat-out, because Comcast would not be willing to issue the service credits I would insist on every month due to the absolute sh!t quality of service the D3 modems they offer provide.

That said, I have not gotten to try out a Motorola D3 modem, so maybe it's not all of them.


PeteC2
Got Mouse?
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join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by BronsCon:

Every ISP-provided D3 modem I have used has been utter CRAP, that's 2 through Cox in the Cleveland market and 4 through Comcast in the Bay Area market. All of them would drop the connection if you so much as looked at them funny, with signal levels smack in the center of perfect.

Well, if I had the experience with cable modems that you have, I probably would have felt the same way.

In my case, history has been a bit different: I come from some 10+ years of dsl. The only really "bad" experience that I had was with a 2Wire gateway that AT&T highly recommended, which was pure frustration and misery. At any rate, all my dsl equipment was owned...and I have an interesting, albeit useless supply of old dsl equipment. Nothing wrong with it, but it has little or no residual value, which is why I am less enthralled with self-ownership.

On the other hand, I now rent a Comcast-provided Arris TM722G eMTA. It came brand-new, and performs every bit as well as I'd expect it to.

For that matter, the other Comcast eMTA and cable modem that I'd received were new, un-used units as well, which also performed as expected, so that probably at least in part explains my relative non-concern over rentals vs owning. Again though, I always support choice!
--
Deeds, not words


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
I think the major appeal of owning equipment is to be able to take it with you to other locations when you move. If equipment works great for you you want to keep using it regardless of where you live. This is one of the reasons why I'd only move to Comcast serviced areas and nowhere else.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

1 recommendation

said by Mike Wolf:

I think the major appeal of owning equipment is to be able to take it with you to other locations when you move. If equipment works great for you you want to keep using it regardless of where you live. This is one of the reasons why I'd only move to Comcast serviced areas and nowhere else.

Again, I'm all for the customer to have the choice to rent or buy the modem. I want to make sure I stress that point. Personally, I'm in the "rent" camp. As I posted a few posts back, I really don't see the point to purchase (outside of the price), as I cannot see any functional differences between a rented modem, and a purchased one. They both perform the same functions, and its not like a purchased modem gives the end user more options or settings to modify that the rented one does not. My impression is that if you rented a SB 5100 from Comcast, and went to best buy and purchased a SB 5100, they would be the exact same modem (functionally), and you would have the same options on both, which would be to just go to the web interface screen (192.168.100.1) and view your settings (not make any changes to anything). Now, if that's not the case, let me know.

If you move from a Comcast area to another Comcast area, and are transferring service, would you not be able to take your rented Comcast modem with you, like you would your Cable TV box?

Now, I can see if you were moving from a Comcast area to an area not served by Comcast (say from Illinois to Wisconsin, which is Time Warner), you would not be able to take your rented modem with you, as you would have to cancel with Comcast, and start up with Time Warner, and rent a modem from them. If you had your own modem, and you liked it, then you could take it with you, assuming your new ISP allowed your purchased modem on their network (another risk to purchasing, IMHO).

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail