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Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky

join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
reply to alkizmo

Re: Looking for a new thermostat

said by alkizmo:

said by Draiman:

One major factor to consider is power. The 3M50 requires hardwired power while the Honeywell does not. Before you invest in the 3M50 make sure you have the proper wires to handle it. For me it wasn't an option as we didn't have a power wire. We when with Honeywell since all it needed was batteries.

Couldn't it be plugged to a power supply brick plugged to a receptacle?

Im thinking of getting one of those WiFi thermostats and my current thermostat runs off a battery. Since my alarm panel is right next to it and is powered by a power supply brick inside the closet behind it, I could run a second line for a thermostat for a second power supply brick (Two inlets in the receptacle).

Sure you can buy a low voltage power supply to fix it given your situation. With kids I couldn't just leave a cord hanging on the wall like that so I'd would have had to run it in the wall. Too much work for that it's worth to me but for you it sounds fine.

»www.amazon.com/Class-II-Transfor ··· r+supply


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
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reply to dunworkin
said by dunworkin:

My son says this is the only way to fly...

Does your son live alone? Ask him if he knows how the Nest would deal with this situation:

»www.theonion.com/articles/marita ··· at,1873/


fluffybunny

@teksavvy.com
reply to Draiman
The 3M-50 does NOT require hardwired power. I dont know where you got the info from. It has a battery compartment and takes 3 AA batteries (rechargeable are ok). If you want to run the wifi all the time you require power in which case a standard DC power adaptor or the wires from your furnace work ok for.


Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky

join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
said by fluffybunny :

The 3M-50 does NOT require hardwired power. I dont know where you got the info from. It has a battery compartment and takes 3 AA batteries (rechargeable are ok). If you want to run the wifi all the time you require power in which case a standard DC power adaptor or the wires from your furnace work ok for.

If you want to run the wifi a 24v power wire is REQUIRED. If someone didn't want the wifi they'd buy a cheaper unit. Sure it will work as a run of the mill thermostat without 24v but why bother?!?!?!


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
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·AT&T Midwest
·Time Warner Cable
reply to fluffybunny
said by fluffybunny :

The 3M-50 does NOT require hardwired power.
...If you want to run the wifi all the time you require power ....

There are better stats available at lower cost without networking.

Why would someone spend the money on the WiFi stat without intending to use the WiFi all the time?
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Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
What I can't understand is why someone needs to "adjust" by whatever method the thermostat so frequently. After all it's a set point for heat and cool. I change mine twice/year. Heat to cool and cool to heat.


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
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said by Jack_in_VA:

What I can't understand is why someone needs to "adjust" by whatever method the thermostat so frequently.

People who are away from home for extended periods, whether they consider that eight hours, eight days or eight months, think they are saving energy by adjusting the settings when the place is unoccupied or when everyone is asleep.

As we all know these issues involving thermal mass and total run time have been the subject of considerable debate.

If you look at the Radio Thermostat forums, you will see a lot of posts from people who are away from their homes and vacation homes.

People who are normally at home all the time probably benefit little from this stuff.
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Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by ArgMeMatey:

said by Jack_in_VA:

What I can't understand is why someone needs to "adjust" by whatever method the thermostat so frequently.

People who are away from home for extended periods, whether they consider that eight hours, eight days or eight months, think they are saving energy by adjusting the settings when the place is unoccupied or when everyone is asleep.

As we all know these issues involving thermal mass and total run time have been the subject of considerable debate.

If you look at the Radio Thermostat forums, you will see a lot of posts from people who are away from their homes and vacation homes.

People who are normally at home all the time probably benefit little from this stuff.

Yes there has been considerable debate and given I've been involved in very extensive energy savings situations involving millions of dollars and many jobs this one IMO is just something to discuss and argue on a forum because it serves no useful purpose in real life.

When I upgraded my Heat pump a couple of months ago to a 16i 2-stage I had them remove my programmable thermostat and put a basic Honeywell electronic one in place of it. I heat in winter, cool in summer. Two settings.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to AKA06
I haven't read this whole thread, but I have scanned it and I haven't seen the following mentioned yet. I recently had new A/C installed, and as part of that they included a Honeywell 4000 thermostat, which appears to be a decent enough unit. However, I'm currently on a TOU (time-of-use) rate pilot program with my local utility company, where (for example) summer-time peak rates are from noon to 8 PM on weekdays, so you want to program your thermostat to take advantage of this and avoid excess A/C usage during the peak periods.

So I went in and programmed my new 4000 accordingly, setting it for higher temps from noon to 8 PM, and lower temps outside of that window. So far, so good. Unfortunately, it turns out that this thermostat intelligently anticipates how long it's going to take to reach that lower temp (it calls it "recovery" mode), meaning that instead of actually honoring the 8 PM time, it might instead kick in at 7:45 or 7:30 or whatever (when I was watching it closely I saw it kick in as early as 7:00), which goes against the grain of the whole TOU thing. So now I've got it set to 9 PM instead, hoping that this minimizes this behavior, although I'd really like to set it back more.

As far as I can tell, there is no way to adjust this behavior or even to turn it off. I have a 3M50 (which as far as I can tell doesn't do this "recovery") and plan to install it soon. If you are on TOU rates or think that you might be sometime in the near future, then this behavior is something to watch out for.

AKA06

join:2011-02-10
reply to Draiman
said by Draiman:

said by dunworkin:

My son says this is the only way to fly...
»store.apple.com/us/product/H9279 ··· 9279LL/A

Given the OP's statement about $100 max I doubt this is even an option. I looked at that thermostat last year but it was more of a gimmick then useful for my needs.

I too have seen the Nest. Great design, and again, a lot of promise. However, I'm not convinced it lives up to it's promise. Not for the price, anyway. Seems like most of the main features are in less expensive thermostats like the 3M50. Yes, it can learn and use internet info like temp to decide on a temp, but I've seen mixed opinions about how well it actually does that task.

I guess I'm just hard pressed to spend that kind of money on a thermostat. Not that it's not in my budget - I just don't see the reason to. I figure my needs can be met, beyond a basic model, for under $100.

AKA06

join:2011-02-10
reply to scross
said by scross:

Unfortunately, it turns out that this thermostat intelligently anticipates how long it's going to take to reach that lower temp (it calls it "recovery" mode), meaning that instead of actually honoring the 8 PM time, it might instead kick in at 7:45 or 7:30 or whatever (when I was watching it closely I saw it kick in as early as 7:00), which goes against the grain of the whole TOU thing.
...
If you are on TOU rates or think that you might be sometime in the near future, then this behavior is something to watch out for.

ArgMeMatey indicated this feature on an earlier post, but I get the impression that, at least on some of their models, it can be enabled or disabled. Good to be aware of though, in conjunction with providers who do TOU.


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
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said by AKA06:

ArgMeMatey indicated this feature on an earlier post, but I get the impression that, at least on some of their models, it can be enabled or disabled. Good to be aware of though, in conjunction with providers who do TOU.

My Honeywells are model T8602D, circa 2000-2001. I bought them from a local dealer; as far as I know they were never available retail except maybe on eBay.

I had to go into Installer Setup with a specific key sequence to turn off AIR. This is also where you set the displayed temp offset, CPH, and so on.

Here's a link to my manual, in case they use the same way to get in on the 4000 series.

»customer.honeywell.com/techlit/p ··· 1510.pdf
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AKA06

join:2011-02-10
Thanks, ArgMeMatey.

I did a little digging, and it looks like the option (though not neccesarily the same steps) is still available to disable AIR on current models. It's just hidden in installer menus.

AKA06

join:2011-02-10
I have to say that at this point I'm leaning towards the Honeywell 8000 series (most likely TH8320U1008). It seems to have most or all of the features of the 3M50 minus the wifi option. While I don't think I'd use the remote access features a whole lot once the novelty wore off, where I see the utility in its connectivity is the data it can create. To be able to log track my thermostat and use that data to make my scheduling more effective is a feature that appeals to me. However, I'm not convinced it's enough of a draw.


Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA
kudos:3
My wife loves feeding my inner geek, and bought me a NEST.
I have zero complains about it, and enjoy using it. The cost was stupid, but as a gift I am ok with it.
However if it lives up to its claims, then it will pay for itself within the 1st year I own it.
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dtm

join:2012-07-06
Dover, NJ
reply to AKA06
I send you a PM. I have a Honeywell 8000 series.

Critsmcgee

join:2011-12-02
reply to AKA06
said by AKA06:

I have to say that at this point I'm leaning towards the Honeywell 8000 series (most likely TH8320U1008). It seems to have most or all of the features of the 3M50 minus the wifi option. While I don't think I'd use the remote access features a whole lot once the novelty wore off, where I see the utility in its connectivity is the data it can create. To be able to log track my thermostat and use that data to make my scheduling more effective is a feature that appeals to me. However, I'm not convinced it's enough of a draw.

Model TH8321U1006 is the same price but had the humidity feature. You may as well get the top model given the same price.


fluffybunny

@teksavvy.com
reply to AKA06
thats what i thought too but i use it all the time.
its convenient to see the temps of different parts of the house in the middle of the night with my ipad.
its convenient to check the thermostat to make sure its off on vacation.
its convenient to switch the thermostat back on 24 hours before my plane lands.
its convenient to check internal temps of the house if a sudden snowstorm occurs or you want to switch the fan on remotely because the house seems too hot.
i had two honeywells which i replaced with the 3M-50s. can never go back now that ive got two wifi stats. bonus is they take z wave usnaps in the radio 2 slot so they interface with home automation too.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
said by fluffybunny :

its convenient to see the temps of different parts of the house

So you bought multiple thermostats that only report temperatures but don't control anything (Aside from the one thermostat).

What's the point anyway?
And yes I have a child and a baby on the way.
Our bedrooms don't vary much in temperatures, especially at night.
And what could you do anyway except turn on the furnace. Then you'd make your room too hot to accommodate someone else. How about a small electric heater with its own basic thermostat?

said by fluffybunny :

its convenient to check the thermostat to make sure its off on vacation.

If you're unsure you turned off the heat while on vacation, you are leaving unsecured.
What about certain electrical circuits that you want to make sure are off?
What about the alarm system?
What about the locked doors?
What about any opened windows?
Will stuff in the fridge spoil and stink?
Is there any garbage lingering in the house?

Heat being left on by mistake is of little more consequence than 50$-100$. The other stuff I listed is much more serious in consequence of failure.

said by fluffybunny :

its convenient to switch the thermostat back on 24 hours before my plane lands.

I don't know. I find it more convenient to have someone pick me up at the air port. Of course, if you come back from an extended leave every week (Which would justify the advantage), maybe you should live in a condo, then heating in advance isn't really necessary.

said by fluffybunny :

its convenient to check internal temps of the house if a sudden snowstorm occurs or you want to switch the fan on remotely because the house seems too hot.

Always ALWAYS leave the thermostat ON with a MINIMUM set temperature (for winter) and MAXIMUM set temperature (In the summer).

said by fluffybunny :

i had two honeywells which i replaced with the 3M-50s. can never go back now that ive got two wifi stats. bonus is they take z wave usnaps in the radio 2 slot so they interface with home automation too.

In the end, you might be the exception since it seems like you're the frequent flyer and nobody is at home when you're mile high.

WiFi thermostats are fun geeky gadgets. You track, you stats and you brag. However in REALITY the last thing I want is to manage my thermostat from work on a daily basis. Hence why the basic 7 day calendar thermostat does everything that is required.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

2 edits
said by alkizmo:

WiFi thermostats are fun geeky gadgets. You track, you stats and you brag. However in REALITY the last thing I want is to manage my thermostat from work on a daily basis. Hence why the basic 7 day calendar thermostat does everything that is required.

+1 except I even got rid of my 7 day programmable. Useless for my needs. I was a prisoner of technology for 35 years chained to it 24/7 convinced that was the modern way. Not any more.

I keep the house temperature 75, 24/7 in summer and 72, 24/7 in winter. I don't care if the Fridge knocks off and the food spoils. The grocery store has plenty more and it's insured anyhow. No need to monitor the doors as we have very little to no crime. If the house burns down it's insured. So bottom line not much is important except my wife's and my health and happiness. Life is now good.


fluffybunny

@teksavvy.com
reply to alkizmo
no i have a multi zone system. so all the wifi thermostats control different points of the house.
i set temps down at night. if youre going to have it at 74F all day and night might as well not bother having anything that a $9.99 walmart special stat.

electrical circuits are always on. the ones i dont want on are on timer switches.
alarm system is a standard honeywell 20P with internet interface thru a AD2USB module. i can switch it on after leaving the house.
doors lock automatically when we exit.
windows have shutters and are closed anyway throughout the year. its cold up north. an ERV exchanges the air every hour.
TED is installed so we know the fridge is operational. ERV will take care of any stink.
garbage is disposed daily.

i leave 2-3 X a year. i dont rely on anyone to pick me up as the car is always in long term parking and i find it annoying to waste 3-4 hours of someones time waiting for me. most of the time im travelling with my S/O or she is out too.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

What I can't understand is why someone needs to "adjust" by whatever method the thermostat so frequently. After all it's a set point for heat and cool. I change mine twice/year. Heat to cool and cool to heat.

Are you married? My wife and I fought constant battles over our old thermostat; at one point I even threatened to rig it so that NONE of us could change it. Our new Honeywell 4000 is just sophisticated enough that (for now) I've got her convinced not to touch it lest she mess up its "special TOU programming", but I don't expect that this defense mechanism will last too long. The 3M50 that I plan to install soon is even more intimidating, and once I get it installed I plan to get software that allows me to monitor it at all times, and change the temperature back if she decides to mess with it. And when she complains about that, I will just plead ignorance: "I don't know what happened to it, honey. This fancy thermostat just seems to have a mind of its own!"

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

I keep the house temperature 75, 24/7 in summer and 72, 24/7 in winter. I don't care if the Fridge knocks off and the food spoils. The grocery store has plenty more and it's insured anyhow. No need to monitor the doors as we have very little to no crime. If the house burns down it's insured. So bottom line not much is important except my wife's and my health and happiness. Life is now good.

75? My wife would kill me! 68 is her preferred summer setting (a temp that, amazingly, is "too cold" for her in the winter time), and 72 is the "hot", peak-rate setting right now. (Unfortunately, when your wife insists that 68 is just right, and once you get acclimated to that, after a short while 72 does in fact seem hot in comparison.)

Now, I'm going to let you in on a little secret, so you'll have to promise to just keep this between me and you, OK? Once I get that 3M50 installed, and once I've convinced her not to touch it, and once I've convinced her that it has "a mind of its own", I plan to set things up so that the 68 degree setting slowly increases over time (a matter of weeks or months), until she gets acclimated to something much more reasonable - at least 70 degrees, hopefully more like 72! And if that's successful, I may even consider going higher.


Nick_L
Premium
join:2003-01-22
Pittsburgh, PA
Ah yes, the foundation of any good relationship, lying and deceit. Lucky lady.


Sly
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join:2004-02-20
Chuckey, TN
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Reviews:
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reply to scross
Your humidity is screwed up. You need 68 in the summer because your AC is oversized and is not able to bring down the humidity. Therefore it seems warmer. In the winter your house is dry and so it feels colder. Therefore you have to set it hotter. Get a humidifier in the winter and either slow the fan speed down or put in some more restrictive air filters in the summer to bring the humidity down. Then you should be able to set it at almost the same temperature summer to winter with little difference in feel.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to scross
said by scross:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I keep the house temperature 75, 24/7 in summer and 72, 24/7 in winter. I don't care if the Fridge knocks off and the food spoils. The grocery store has plenty more and it's insured anyhow. No need to monitor the doors as we have very little to no crime. If the house burns down it's insured. So bottom line not much is important except my wife's and my health and happiness. Life is now good.

75? My wife would kill me! 68 is her preferred summer setting (a temp that, amazingly, is "too cold" for her in the winter time), and 72 is the "hot", peak-rate setting right now. (Unfortunately, when your wife insists that 68 is just right, and once you get acclimated to that, after a short while 72 does in fact seem hot in comparison.)

Now, I'm going to let you in on a little secret, so you'll have to promise to just keep this between me and you, OK? Once I get that 3M50 installed, and once I've convinced her not to touch it, and once I've convinced her that it has "a mind of its own", I plan to set things up so that the 68 degree setting slowly increases over time (a matter of weeks or months), until she gets acclimated to something much more reasonable - at least 70 degrees, hopefully more like 72! And if that's successful, I may even consider going higher.

Any relationship is one of equal standing and compromise. 75 summer, 72 winter. Both of us can live with that with no problem or feeling of being forced to accept it.

In summer with the unit taking out so much humidity 75 can feel very cold at times.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Sly
said by Sly:

Your humidity is screwed up. You need 68 in the summer because your AC is oversized and is not able to bring down the humidity. Therefore it seems warmer. In the winter your house is dry and so it feels colder. Therefore you have to set it hotter. Get a humidifier in the winter and either slow the fan speed down or put in some more restrictive air filters in the summer to bring the humidity down. Then you should be able to set it at almost the same temperature summer to winter with little difference in feel.

It is, at this very moment, 68 degrees with 46% humidity; this rarely goes much above 50% unless maybe someone has just taken a shower (I try to get them to use the bathroom fans but they don't always listen). The guys who replaced our unit last month were worried that 4 tons might be too small, based on size of the house, but I told them that's what we've had for the past 30 years and it cooled just fine. And we do generally use humidifiers in the winter, but with the milder winters we've been having lately we've kind of gotten out of the habit.

There are a few things I know I need to do, though, in order to make temperatures more consistent throughout the house. As it stands right now, there may be a very noticeable difference in temp from room to room, and even from one end of a large room to another:

1. Re-tune all the vents and dampers (some of these are new, with the new AC)
2. Fix some known insulation problems in the attic and upstairs bedrooms
3. Add/update some window treatments to stop the sun from heating the windows up so much
4. I replaced the control board in the air handler last year, and the new board has a couple of options for creative fan control (continuous slow speed when the compressor isn't running, for example), so I may have to experiment with that. Unfortunately, this is enabled by cutting wires (no jumpers, no switches), so I haven't rushed to do it yet, and I may decide to pull out my soldering iron and re-engineer the board a bit before I do.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 edit
reply to Nick_L
said by Nick_L:

Ah yes, the foundation of any good relationship, lying and deceit. Lucky lady.

Hey, whatever works - we've been together for 25 years and counting.

DON'T JUDGE ME!



And BTW, she told me this morning that she tweaked the "don't touch" thermostat when she got up, because she was "hot" (it was 70 degrees in the house at the time she did this). So now all hope is lost!


Sly
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Chuckey, TN
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to scross
It sounds like your system is running properly if you are maintaining around 46% humidity. One thing about balancing the vents... do you have any rooms that you keep the doors closed to? The reason I say is that I have a room the cats live in upstairs and so I have to keep the door closed. To make up for the loss in airflow due to the door being shut, I measured the surface area of the vents in the room and then I cut the door at the bottom to raise it a little off the floor so that the same airflow can go through the room regardless of whether the door is open or closed.

Maybe you sleep with the bedroom door shut. If so then that room will get hotter at night and you might need to open it up or allow some airflow through the door to keep it cool at night... This may not reflect your situation at all, just saying...

Now I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but could there be something wrong with your wife physically? 68 in the house and low humidity would freeze most people. Has she always been like this or is her being hot all the time a new development? If you've been together for 25 years then she may be due for menopause and will be hot no matter how cool you get it. We keep our house at 77 in the summer and sometimes turn it down to 76 if we get a little warm.

Back to the thermostat, my Honeywell 8000 can be set to lockout the temperature or to narrow the range that it can be adjusted. You have to go into a programming mode and then you can limit the range of adjustment to wherever you like or you can lock it out all together so that the temp can not be changed.

If she is hot all the time then you might consider ceiling fans or letting the AC fan run either on "on" or "circulate". Maybe a little moving air might be enough to convince her to leave the thermostat alone. A little wind chill goes a long way.


Nick_L
Premium
join:2003-01-22
Pittsburgh, PA
reply to scross
said by scross:

said by Nick_L:

Ah yes, the foundation of any good relationship, lying and deceit. Lucky lady.

Hey, whatever works - we've been together for 25 years and counting.

DON'T JUDGE ME!



Don't judge you? You haven't been around the internet much, have you? The internet is nothing if not a place to judge people you don't know!

On the other hand, who am I to judge success!! Happy 25th. Cheers!