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UofMiamiGrad
Premium
join:2001-02-03
Great Neck, NY
reply to gadgetboyj

Re: Give up my copper phone line to upgrade to 75\25?

said by gadgetboyj:

said by UofMiamiGrad:

Believe it or not Cablevision works better than Verizon after a big storm.

That depends on what parts of who's infrastructures sustain damage, as well as which areas the providers chose to restore service to first.

Well when all your services are above ground and a tropical storm or hurricane take trees down all over the place that snap telephone poles like toothpicks, let me know who's infrastructure sustains damage.

valgaav

join:2011-06-07
Dom. Rep.
reply to miked112
I'd switch to fiber right away, too bad it's not available(yet) where I live. :P


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to miked112
FiOS uses PON (Passive Optical Network). There's no powered equipment from CO to ONT. Everything is passive.

The CO has generators, so if you also have a generator, you'll get service.

That being said, Verizon's fiber lines can still be taken out (if aerial) during a storm. If that happens, the other poster is correct - Satellite is the only thing that will always work.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

3 edits

1 recommendation

reply to miked112
Mike, its pure glass from Central Office to your house. No repeaters. If theres a widespread power outage, it will work with a generator. The cable companies backup their fiber nodes? I find that extremely hard to believe. They bring generators to their nodes to accommodate the few people with generators? Hmmm ( lol Im not wagering money on this concept )

If you have a generator and power is lost to YOUR HOUSE ONLY, yes, you will have services up and running with cable. If it widespread, like an entire neighborhood, city, state, and their fiber nodes are included, you get NOTHING.

With FiOS the pon cards have backup power in the central office, thats it. Thats the beauty of FiOS.

Now that we've established that there is no electronics between you and central office, do you see any point in keeping a copper line which takes the same route to the SAME central office? Factor in that the fiber is immune to rain, unlike the copper lines, there is ZERO reason to keep copper if you have a generator. (other than being stubborn )


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Thinkdiff
Yea, like those hurricane winds in question ( which are "snapping all the poles like twigs") dont rip Satellite Sails off roofs. LOL Cmon now.

Id trust FiOS over Satellite in a hurricane, god knows youre not getting Satellite signals anyway in such a storm.,,, if it does survive such winds.

UofMiamiGrad
Premium
join:2001-02-03
Great Neck, NY
said by ITALIAN926:

Yea, like those hurricane winds in question ( which are "snapping all the poles like twigs") dont rip Satellite Sails off roofs. LOL Cmon now.

Id trust FiOS over Satellite in a hurricane, god knows youre not getting Satellite signals anyway in such a storm.,,, if it does survive such winds.

Keep touting how great FIOS is when the power is out all over the neighborhood and you have generator power. Doesn't matter one bit that the damn fiber is snapped all over the place in the town with cable & power company lines, none at all. Enjoy the blank TV, etc. Seen enough of that on this forum with the mid-atlantic derecho that blew through there. Keep your head in the sand, does wonders. Considering what tropical storm winds did here on Long Island with Irene last year, consider yourself lucky if FIOS & your utilities are delivered underground cause when the infrastructure is damaged severely, you are SOL even with a generator.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
Listen man, if all of Great Neck loses power due to one electrical line coming down, your FiOS will continue to work in a power outage if you have a generator.

The Fiber lines are not wrapped around the electric lines themselves. "Keep touting "? I will.

UofMiamiGrad
Premium
join:2001-02-03
Great Neck, NY
said by ITALIAN926:

Listen man, if all of Great Neck loses power due to one electrical line coming down, your FiOS will continue to work in a power outage if you have a generator.

The Fiber lines are not wrapped around the electric lines themselves. "Keep touting "? I will.

That's great but usually if a power line goes due to a storm it's because a tree was uprooted & took out everything between the poles. My services in my part of Great Neck are underground but many places in my village, on Long Island and elsewhere are not. So yeah if a transformer blows, no worries FIOS will work, as will cable with a generator at your residence. When a thunderstorm or tropical system take out trees left and right & your services are aerial, well then everyone is SOL with their services. One possible power outage cause is not standard across the board, i.e blown transformer vs. thunderstorm/tropical system w/trees down between telephone poles.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to miked112
My parents neighborhood has all above ground lines. With last weeks storm in the DC area, their power was fine as well as their comcast cable. Yet their Verizon POTS line went down for a week.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to UofMiamiGrad
Youre talking about a minority of users, even in a hurricane. When the hurricane came through last year, and everyone lost power, like 90-95% of those FiOS subscribers came back online when power was restored. Anyone within that high percentage would have kept all services up the whole time if they had a generator.

gadgetboyj

join:2009-08-25
Staten Island, NY
kudos:2
reply to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

My parents neighborhood has all above ground lines. With last weeks storm in the DC area, their power was fine as well as their comcast cable. Yet their Verizon POTS line went down for a week.

Verizon was probably much more focused on getting their FiOS subscribers back online before they fixed all of the downed POTS lines.


VARTV

join:2003-06-11
Virginia Beach, VA
reply to ITALIAN926
+1


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to ITALIAN926
Most cable companies do have backup power for their lines and nodes. If you look around any aerial service areas, they're in those large "alpha" boxes.

That being said, they are pretty notorious for not keeping them up to date. And once the backup runs out, you're relying on the cable company to bring generators to the poles, which I have seen them do in long outages, but I would not count on it at all.

And yes, I think a small dish well secured to a house would survive high winds better than a large, old, possibly rotted out tree. At least with the dish, you could reattach it yourself and not have to wait for anybody else.

It doesn't take hurricane force winds to bring down a dead tree. But then again, the tree could fall on your house and take out the dish.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


miked112

@verizon.net
reply to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

Mike, its pure glass from Central Office to your house. No repeaters.
...
Factor in that the fiber is immune to rain, unlike the copper lines, there is ZERO reason to keep copper if you have a generator. (other than being stubborn )

Well, not to be stubborn it's not zero. The one remaining advantage of POTS (assuming you keep an old Ma Bell phone around for this, as we do) is that you have phone service when your generator isn't running because the phone doesn't need local power; unless it's needed to run AC\heat you want to turn it off at night...in an emergency situation it's nice to know you wouldn't have to fire up the generator to make or receive a call. One way to mitigate that might be to hang a standalone UPS onto the ONT battery backup; if it charges while the generator is running during the day that would give you enough battery power to get through the night, and you could connect a cordless phone base station to it as well.

That said I don't want to come across as a tinfoil hat guy; with 20 years in IT infrastructure for a very large company I probably spend more time thinking about this stuff than most people, and with the increasingly crazy weather scenarios we're seeing in the US I do think that we need to worry about weather\power emergencies more than we have in the past.

I've learned from this thread that Fios is more resilient than I thought, and definitely more resilient than cable. I would still like to keep my copper if they'll let me (and I still don't think they gain anything by making a Fios customer give it up before the POTS customers do) but I now see why turning down that nearly 3x bandwidth increase is not as cut and dried as I thought.


nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:17
The problem with your copper argument is not all 'copper' POTS is 100% copper from the CO to your location. A majority is DLC-fed, meaning the DLC still needs commercial AC power - and when the commercial AC power goes out and the batteries die feeding the DLC, your POTS goes down.....

The FCC requirement for regulated voice is 8 hours of backup time, regardless of the network delivery method.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to gadgetboyj
said by gadgetboyj:

said by aaronwt:

My parents neighborhood has all above ground lines. With last weeks storm in the DC area, their power was fine as well as their comcast cable. Yet their Verizon POTS line went down for a week.

Verizon was probably much more focused on getting their FiOS subscribers back online before they fixed all of the downed POTS lines.

FiOS was back up in hours. Yet the POTS lines in the area were down for almost a week. There were no issues with any utility poles in the area since Comcast lines and power lines were not affected.

There is no question that the POTS outage was unusual. They have lived there for 45 years and never had any issue with the POTS lines remotely similar. It just seems ironic that the POTS lines are supposed to be the most reliable, but in their situation it was actually the least reliable. And part of the reason they never changed phone service to Comcast or even FiOS was because of the supposed reliabilty.

dmine45

join:2002-11-03
Fredericksburg, VA

1 recommendation

reply to miked112
People here are mixing apples and oranges a bit..

POTS lines *used* to go all the way back to the central office and get power from the central office battery (or backup generator) when AC power went out. That is often times no longer the case.

These days, copper analog lines go to a multiplexing system of some sort - such as a mini switch or some sort of multiple line multiplexing system that puts multiple phone lines on a single copper pair or fiber line.

The issue is how these devices are powered. When the utility AC power goes out, they operate off of batteries. These batteries usually run out in 12 hours or so. When they go out, the copper pair is no longer working - and depending on the actual situation, the central office may send callers to a "This number is no longer in service" recording, to a busy signal, or just ring and ring. (I've seen all three with my former POTS line)

It sounds like with this particular situation that the CO had power, the end customer had power, but the mini switch or multiplexing unit did not. I do remember when Hurricane Isabel hit in 2003 that Verizon got out and hooked up generators to the mini switches to keep them going. But I did not see that this time in my area. I think the number of POTS customers has become so few that they didn't even bother. Either customers have dropped POTS in favor of VoIP, all wireless/cellular or FIOS (either FE or DV). Any way you slice it, it sounds like POTS is such a low priority due to the few numbers of customers who use it these days, that they didn't hook up a generator.

And as others have said - if YOU have power (either AC or generator) - you had all the FIOS services available - Internet, TV and phone - provided you kept your ONT powered.

Sadly, this is the future when copper analog POTS goes away completely in a few years.

prisaz

join:2008-08-11
Germantown, MD
I would still place my chips on FiOS. 6-8hrs no power, Montgomery county Maryland. I would say a majority, if not all of our fiber is under ground. Have power have FiOS, since 2005.

prisaz

join:2008-08-11
Germantown, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to nycdave
Dave
Digital Voice is not regulated right? So if they get everyone to go there, you could be without everything, and tough luck. Still a FiOS fan, and switched to DV.

said by nycdave:

The problem with your copper argument is not all 'copper' POTS is 100% copper from the CO to your location. A majority is DLC-fed, meaning the DLC still needs commercial AC power - and when the commercial AC power goes out and the batteries die feeding the DLC, your POTS goes down.....

The FCC requirement for regulated voice is 8 hours of backup time, regardless of the network delivery method.



nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:17
Correct.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to prisaz
said by prisaz:

Dave
Digital Voice is not regulated right? So if they get everyone to go there, you could be without everything, and tough luck. Still a FiOS fan, and switched to DV.

said by nycdave:

The problem with your copper argument is not all 'copper' POTS is 100% copper from the CO to your location. A majority is DLC-fed, meaning the DLC still needs commercial AC power - and when the commercial AC power goes out and the batteries die feeding the DLC, your POTS goes down.....

The FCC requirement for regulated voice is 8 hours of backup time, regardless of the network delivery method.

So what does regulation mean? My parents were on a regulated landline yet it was out for a week. There were no downed lines. It was some other issue. Even though it was regulated it didn't help them get their service back quickly. Yet people with FiOS and unregulated phone service had their phone service up in several hours in their area.

Mar9tin

join:2012-07-08
reply to prisaz
Backup generators only cost between $4-6,000 for an avg home

gadgetboyj

join:2009-08-25
Staten Island, NY
kudos:2
said by Mar9tin:

Backup generators only cost between $4-6,000 for an avg home

For some, that's not "only" a little money.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
reply to Mar9tin
The $300-400 portable variety works just as good with FiOS too.

prisaz

join:2008-08-11
Germantown, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

said by prisaz:

Dave
Digital Voice is not regulated right? So if they get everyone to go there, you could be without everything, and tough luck. Still a FiOS fan, and switched to DV.

said by nycdave:

The problem with your copper argument is not all 'copper' POTS is 100% copper from the CO to your location. A majority is DLC-fed, meaning the DLC still needs commercial AC power - and when the commercial AC power goes out and the batteries die feeding the DLC, your POTS goes down.....

The FCC requirement for regulated voice is 8 hours of backup time, regardless of the network delivery method.

So what does regulation mean? My parents were on a regulated landline yet it was out for a week. There were no downed lines. It was some other issue. Even though it was regulated it didn't help them get their service back quickly. Yet people with FiOS and unregulated phone service had their phone service up in several hours in their area.

I agree. Regulation is not always a good thing. When I have power I have FiOS. It was my understanding that when FiOS is launched in a given area, They build out a totaly different CO.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Thats your misunderstanding prisaz

prisaz

join:2008-08-11
Germantown, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by ITALIAN926:

Thats your misunderstanding prisaz

Ok perhap just my town. I guess, the CO here was just to cramped to have everything co exist. I bet some locations were property is at a prime, and buildings are built up, such in NYC, it is probably not true. the Copper and Fiber CO are probably co-located.

I guess it depends on space. But then again I don't work for Verizon, and don't know everything.

ITALIAN926 I am always open to learning. I am not here just to complain.

Best Regards