dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
4668
share rss forum feed


DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:14

2 edits
reply to Kearnstd

Re: Who Killed the Open Set-Top-Box?

There are standards for cable video services like DOCSIS is for cable internet service. That is what Cablecard and tru2way are. They're even certified by the same CableLabs organizaation. The vast majority of the electronics makers abandoned it, while the FCC forced cable companies to continue to use and support it.

At the time CableCard was created (10+ years ago) software based security wasn't as available or secure so hardware based keys were used (the actual cards). tru2way was the software standard for the CableCard enabled boxes to allow 2-way functionality, but again only cable companies embraced it. Future plans at the time CableCard and tru2way were created were moving toward downloadable security (DCAS) but that really hasn't seen the light of day since most of the electronics makers have abandoned CableCard and true2way.

TVeverywhere is a cable industry project to move to software based security and ad tracking for streaming video content straight to authorized video clients. Many video providers, channel broadcasters, and equipment makers have put their support into making it a success.


Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to Kearnstd

they want to you to rent there cable box. At a time they tried to make you pay per IP and tried to ban routers as well.


Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to camper

This might sound strange but why is there nothing like DOCSIS for TV?

If I buy a DOCSIS 3 modem, I activate it with Comcast and their system looks at my billing, and then sends my modem the right bootfile.

Couldnt cable boxes have a generic standard like DOCSIS is for data services and as such you just have a boot file indicating which channels you get.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to telcodad

get ready to pay more and want tivo well you can rent a comcast tivo box at a higher price. and yes you tivo that you have now will not work and no your lifetime tivo = 0 as there are no tivo fees with a comcast tivo.



telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:4
reply to camper

As this article says, it's not clear how this appeals court ruling could impact the use of CableCARDs now:

Appeals court rejects FCC's 'plug and play' rules
Decision could impact CableCARD, AllVid proceedings

By Steve Donohue, FierceCable - January 16, 2013
»www.fiercecable.com/story/appeal···13-01-16



telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:4
reply to GTFan

said by GTFan:

The other sad part to this story is that the Ceton Echo has just been released and is riddled with bugs and DOA boxes. They'll likely get this fixed over time, but for a small company it's a big blow IMO.

Yeah, Engadget was disappointed also:

Ceton Echo Windows Media Center Extender review
By Ben Drawbaugh, Engadget - December 11, 2012
»www.engadget.com/2012/12/11/ceto···-review/

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to telcodad

Old news for those that run 7MC today and knew about the deal, but more importantly 8MC has some serious issues right now (like breaking compatability with existing extenders and removing network bridging for Ceton tuners) and no new features to justify using it. MS has abandoned development on the product.

It's good that it's free, because in its current state it should be.

The other sad part to this story is that the Ceton Echo has just been released and is riddled with bugs and DOA boxes. They'll likely get this fixed over time, but for a small company it's a big blow IMO.



telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:4
reply to GTFan

said by GTFan:

said by telcodad:

FYI - Today's news on Ceton's Echo Windows Media Center Extender:

Ceton's $179 Echo Windows Media Center Extender is ready to go on sale 'around Thanksgiving'
By Richard Lawler, Engadget - October 11, 2012
»www.engadget.com/2012/10/11/ceto···ing-179/

Yep, and at the price (and with the limited feature set/tech specs) they're offering, it's about $79 too high. Which is too bad, because we need alternatives to the Xbox.

For $179 I expect it to be a damn good extender, which it should be, but also be able to play damn near everything I can throw at it, which it won't. At least not going by the specs Ceton has posted for it so far.

And with WMC being all but abandoned by MS, I'm guessing the already slim market for the Echo will be even smaller.

FYI - Just saw this blog item:

Get Windows 8 Pro Media Center for FREE!
By Craig Buckler, SitePoint - November 30, 2012
»www.sitepoint.com/free-windows-8···-center/

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to mikedz4

These lawsuits have been brought before and have gone nowhere to the best of my knowledge. I'm not sure why that is. Here's another one against Comcast (there's more if you Google it):

»arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2008···lecards/

Here's one for TWC:

»www.cedmagazine.com/news/2008/08···x-rental


GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to mikedz4

np



mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV
reply to telcodad

what does this mean for comcast, time warner, suddenlik,etc? Do they have to sell set tops as well?



telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to halfband

said by halfband:

But if the US had the canadian "buy a box" system we would just have $15 outlet mirror fees. You can't win.

Looks like someone is trying to get that system here:

Former judge sues Cox for forcing subscribers to lease set-tops
Stanley Feldman asks U.S. District Court to make Cox disgorge profits from set-top business

By Steve Donohue, FierceCable - October 25, 2012
»www.fiercecable.com/story/former···12-10-25

From the article:
The lawsuit, filed in a U.S. District Court in Tucson, alleges that Cox is violating the Sherman Antitrust Act by tying set-top rentals to pay TV subscriptions. In addition to asking the court to require Cox to give subscribers the option to buy set-tops instead of renting the boxes, it wants Cox to disgorge profits generated from renting set-tops.
Also, from Light Reading Cable today (»www.lightreading.com/document.as···d=226367 ):
Cox Communications Inc. is under fire for charging set-top box rental fees to customers wanting TV services beyond the basic tier. Stanley Feldman, a former state Supreme Court judge, is asking a district court in Tucson to ban Cox from forcing customers to pay the monthly US$6.99 fee. He wants an option to buy the equipment from third parties. The case started as a national class-action lawsuit against Cox, but a federal judge in Oklahoma rejected it, ruling that customers can file individual complaints in their home states, reports the Arizona Daily Star. Cable has pursued the retail angle with tru2way, but the common middleware/headend platform failed to spur a retail market for cable set-tops. (See Tru2way: Epic Fail at Retail: »www.lightreading.com/document.as···d=202538 )

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to telcodad

said by telcodad:

FYI - Today's news on Ceton's Echo Windows Media Center Extender:

Ceton's $179 Echo Windows Media Center Extender is ready to go on sale 'around Thanksgiving'
By Richard Lawler, Engadget - October 11, 2012
»www.engadget.com/2012/10/11/ceto···ing-179/

Yep, and at the price (and with the limited feature set/tech specs) they're offering, it's about $79 too high. Which is too bad, because we need alternatives to the Xbox.

For $179 I expect it to be a damn good extender, which it should be, but also be able to play damn near everything I can throw at it, which it won't. At least not going by the specs Ceton has posted for it so far.

And with WMC being all but abandoned by MS, I'm guessing the already slim market for the Echo will be even smaller.


halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
reply to signmeuptoo

With the exception of VOD the answer is, you can.
Ceton makes a PC tuner card that uses a cable card. Silicon Dust makes a network based cable card tuner (I have one, works great.) Hauppauge makes a usb based cable card tuner (that is based on the silcondust technology). Combined with a win7 pc's media center you can make a very capable DVR that provides an excellent user experience. It will even stream to an xbox as media center extender.
--
Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812



telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:4
reply to GTFan

FYI - Today's news on Ceton's Echo Windows Media Center Extender:

Ceton's $179 Echo Windows Media Center Extender is ready to go on sale 'around Thanksgiving'
By Richard Lawler, Engadget - October 11, 2012
»www.engadget.com/2012/10/11/ceto···ing-179/


GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to telcodad

Yep, Moxi is a dead man walking. Stay away, far away.



telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to DrDrew

said by DrDrew:

said by GTFan:

You can no longer buy the Moxi.

You can buy them used.

If not from eBay, Amazon also shows some used ones for sale: »www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GQ8MT8

EDIT: As far as support for the old Moxi DVRs, there had been a note on the company's home page for a while that indicated tech support and guide data would come to an end at the end of 2013 (»Re: [STB] Moxi ), but then it was removed, and now it says (»www.moxi.com/us ):
A few weeks ago we incorrectly posted a notice regarding discontinuation of our Moxi program guide data. We currently have no plans to discontinue service. Thank you for your support.


DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:14
reply to GTFan

said by GTFan:

You can no longer buy the Moxi.

You can buy them used.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to DrDrew

You can no longer buy the Moxi.


GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to signmeuptoo

said by signmeuptoo:

A lot being discussed here is shooting over the top of my head. May I pop in and ask? I am a comcast customer, can I build a PC and get a cable card and tuner and get content just like the cable HD box? From what I gather from all your comments is that I cannot?

You can, using Windows 7 and a cablecard tuner from Ceton, SiliconDust, or Hauppauge. You can also use the Xbox360 as an extender (STB) on secondary TVs.

»www.thegreenbutton.tv is a great place to start for this.


DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:14
reply to Joe12345678

said by Joe12345678:

they have good stuff like this.

Shaw Gateway Experience

»www.shaw.ca/Gateway/

in the usa you can get the same boxes at insane rent prices.

That's the re-badged Moxi gear.... wonder if it works if you move out of a Shaw area...

In the US you can get the Tivo, old Moxi, Ceton gear.

Either way you pay for the boxes.

The cable companies aren't stopping 3rd parties from selling boxes. There just aren't very many selling in the US. If there was more of a demand there would be more companies selling them and making quarterly profits doing it. Tivo may be behind why there are fewer companies interested in making them, at least DVRs...
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to camper

A lot being discussed here is shooting over the top of my head. May I pop in and ask? I am a comcast customer, can I build a PC and get a cable card and tuner and get content just like the cable HD box? From what I gather from all your comments is that I cannot?
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.



halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
reply to Joe12345678

But if the US had the canadian "buy a box" system we would just have $15 outlet mirror fees. You can't win.
--
Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812


Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to DrDrew

but you are not paying $8-$15 per tv in fees.


Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to DrDrew

they have good stuff like this.

Shaw Gateway Experience

»www.shaw.ca/Gateway/

in the usa you can get the same boxes at insane rent prices.



DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:14
reply to Joe12345678

said by Joe12345678:

blame the cable co who made more by renting 3-4+ year old cable boxes at high rates.

We need to be like Canadian systems where you can buy the cable box with rent / outlet or mirroring fees.

Wow in Canada you can buy those 3-4+ year old boxes with the horrible guides... big deal. It's just the cable company boxes being resold through retailers, many you can't even use in other systems in Canada. You're stuck trying to resell a box when you move.

Then you can't even use a Ceton, Tivo, Moxi, or anything that uses a CableCARD. You're stuck using a Tivo DT2 or earlier, hanging off a cable box of course to get the encrypted channels.

Great system to want... the Canadian system.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to GTFan

blame the cable co who made more by renting 3-4+ year old cable boxes at high rates.

We need to be like Canadian systems where you can buy the cable box with rent / outlet or mirroring fees.



DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:14
reply to GTFan

The 1 active maker of them has started working on it


GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to DrDrew

"TV Everywhere" is going nowhere on 3rd party DVRs so far.



DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:14
reply to GTFan

said by GTFan:

It doesn't bode well for Cablecard's future, and there's no IP-based standard coming down the pipe to replace it. Sad.

The FCC killd the future of the CableCARD with the announcement of the DOA AllVid.

The IP-based method all the major players (Comcast, TWC, Cox, DirecTV, HBO, NBC, ESPN, Disney, Adobe, etc) are using is "TV Everywhere", even Tivo has announced upcoming products for it:
»www.engadget.com/2012/05/30/tivo···-everyw/
TVeverywhere covers distribution, content protection, authorization, and billing. There are clients for Windows, Mac, iOS, Android, Xbox, various TV OSs, and many other products.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.