ansky
join:2009-05-18
West Orange, NJ |
to Greg2600
Re: More HD channels coming by October.said by Greg2600:Mac, they would never do that for the same reason they aren't going to recall the 6000x series (in fact they're giving them out), it's too big a hit to their bottom line. Not to mention the people who have free DTA's. Plus, I've seen Verizon's newer small HD boxes, they are not as small as the DTA's. Not even close.
If the cable companies can phase out analog cable and move everyone to digital, I would think it would be a similar process to move everyone from SD to HD. The SD channels are obviously taking up a lot of bandwidth and likely hindering the ability to add new HD channels. At some point it's no longer going to make business sense to keep hanging onto an old technology. It's a process that could take place over a couple years. Start by no longer offering SD boxes to new customers. Since SD boxes now cost the same monthly fee as HD boxes, if someone has a malfunctioning SD box, issue them a HD box instead of another SD box. I think I read a while back that they no longer issue digital adapters to some areas... |
|
2 edits |
said by ansky:said by Greg2600:Mac, they would never do that for the same reason they aren't going to recall the 6000x series (in fact they're giving them out), it's too big a hit to their bottom line. Not to mention the people who have free DTA's. Plus, I've seen Verizon's newer small HD boxes, they are not as small as the DTA's. Not even close.
If the cable companies can phase out analog cable and move everyone to digital, I would think it would be a similar process to move everyone from SD to HD. The SD channels are obviously taking up a lot of bandwidth and likely hindering the ability to add new HD channels. At some point it's no longer going to make business sense to keep hanging onto an old technology. It's a process that could take place over a couple years. Start by no longer offering SD boxes to new customers. Since SD boxes now cost the same monthly fee as HD boxes, if someone has a malfunctioning SD box, issue them a HD box instead of another SD box. I think I read a while back that they no longer issue digital adapters to some areas... You assume everyone in the FiOS footprint has an HD tv and they don't, there are still a lot of SD tube tv's out there. There are some who have HDTV's who still watch SD channels although it just seems wrong. My sister has a 6 year old Panasonic plasma and the SD looks almost as good as HD. Then there are those who bought EDTV's I would agree there should be some type of ala cart to choose from. |
|
1 edit |
to ansky
said by ansky:said by Greg2600:Mac, they would never do that for the same reason they aren't going to recall the 6000x series (in fact they're giving them out), it's too big a hit to their bottom line. Not to mention the people who have free DTA's. Plus, I've seen Verizon's newer small HD boxes, they are not as small as the DTA's. Not even close.
If the cable companies can phase out analog cable and move everyone to digital, I would think it would be a similar process to move everyone from SD to HD. The SD channels are obviously taking up a lot of bandwidth and likely hindering the ability to add new HD channels. At some point it's no longer going to make business sense to keep hanging onto an old technology. It's a process that could take place over a couple years. Start by no longer offering SD boxes to new customers. Since SD boxes now cost the same monthly fee as HD boxes, if someone has a malfunctioning SD box, issue them a HD box instead of another SD box. I think I read a while back that they no longer issue digital adapters to some areas... It actually makes much more sense to transition existing HD from MPEG2 to MPEG4 than drop all the SD duplicates. There are only about 200 HD channels available, so only that many are effectively duplicates (and Verizon carries only about 2/3rds of these channels). Assume 12 SD channels per QAM (which is lowballing it), and deleting duplicates frees up 16 QAM. That's enough space for 32 MPEG2 HD channels. Conversely, assume 200 HD channels in MPEG2. That requires 100 QAM. Convert to MPEG4 and now it only requires (conservatively speaking) 50 QAM. You've freed up 50 QAM. Which will allow you to carry another 200 MPEG4 HD channels. That is, for all intents and purposes, a future-proof distribution method. Verizon's strategy, as we can already see, is to provide new HD channels in MPEG4, and offer box upgrades to those who need them. This is the most prudent course. This allows for a natural transition away from the remaining MPEG2-only STBs in the field, and will at some point make it feasible to do a reclamation on the remaining boxes, and a full transition to MPEG4. |
|
|
 Zero5
join:2009-07-01
Collegeville, PA |
Zero5
Member
2012-Jul-11 5:53 pm
said by URFloorMatt:It actually makes much more sense to transition existing HD from MPEG2 to MPEG4 than drop all the SD duplicates.
There are only about 200 HD channels available, so only that many are effectively duplicates (and Verizon carries only about 2/3rds of these channels). Assume 12 SD channels per QAM (which is lowballing it), and deleting duplicates frees up 16 QAM. That's enough space for 8 MPEG2 HD channels.
Conversely, assume 200 HD channels in MPEG2. That requires 100 QAM. Convert to MPEG4 and now it only requires (conservatively speaking) 50 QAM. You've freed up 50 QAM. Which will allow you to carry another 200 MPEG4 HD channels. That is, for all intents and purposes, a future-proof distribution method.
Verizon's strategy, as we can already see, is to provide new HD channels in MPEG4, and offer box upgrades to those who need them. This is the most prudent course. This allows for a natural transition away from the remaining MPEG2-only STBs in the field, and will at some point make it feasible to do a reclamation on the remaining boxes, and a full transition to MPEG4.
Someone hit the nail on the head... By the time VZ needs even more space after moving all the MPEG-2 HD channels over to MPEG-4 (those natively broadcasted in MPEG-4) I wonder if IPTV would be ready...  |
|
| |
to URFloorMatt
Math correction: 16 QAMs would enable 32 MPEG2 HD channels.
But I still agree with the point, dumping SD channels is a nonstarter. Phasing out old HD boxes makes the most sense so we can get on the MPEG4 train, and it'd last for years.
I wonder though, if they're dragging their feet in part because they have those new whole-home boxes in the works, and avoiding deployment of more costly 7xxx's than necessary?
I don't know. I don't get it, and they refuse to answer questions when we ask. |
|
| |
to joe01880
said by joe01880:You assume everyone in the FiOS footprint has an HD tv Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well. |
|
| |
said by wmcbrine:Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well.
Not really. I have a TV under my kitchen cabinets. There is no room for one of their HD boxes, only the Dct700 fits. Unfortunately I don't think any equipment provider makes a box near to that size. In addition, back to square one, because Verizon would be forced to send out new HD boxes in place of many SD boxes that customers currently get free. You'd be amazed how many times I walk into a local business and see a TV on the wall with a DCT700 velcro'd to the side. Then you have the Frontier areas, which Verizon has to take into account when making changes. Just seems like Verizon is too much of a bohemoth to do anything. |
|
 nycdave
MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY |
What do you mean by the statement 'Verizon has to take into account for Frontier areas'? All decisions since the Frontier sale only impact Verizon - Frontier is their own company now. |
|
ansky
join:2009-05-18
West Orange, NJ |
to Greg2600
said by Greg2600:said by wmcbrine:Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well.
Not really. I have a TV under my kitchen cabinets. There is no room for one of their HD boxes, only the Dct700 fits. The other day I went to the grocery store and picked up a bottle of orange juice. Apparently they changed the size and shape of the bottle so that it no longer fits into the usual spot in my fridge. So I moved it to a different spot. You have to adapt. You can't expect Verizon to keep supporting a particular receiver because nothing else will fit. |
|
skohly
join:2009-08-19
Township Of Washington, NJ |
skohly
Member
2012-Jul-13 2:46 pm
said by ansky:said by Greg2600:said by wmcbrine:Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well.
Not really. I have a TV under my kitchen cabinets. There is no room for one of their HD boxes, only the Dct700 fits. The other day I went to the grocery store and picked up a bottle of orange juice. Apparently they changed the size and shape of the bottle so that it no longer fits into the usual spot in my fridge. So I moved it to a different spot. You have to adapt. You can't expect Verizon to keep supporting a particular receiver because nothing else will fit. Yup and also those orange juice bottles are getting smaller. Off topic but they really are |
|
| |
to wmcbrine
said by wmcbrine:said by joe01880:You assume everyone in the FiOS footprint has an HD tv Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well. In fact, at this point, Verizon only offers HD capable boxes to new customers. |
|
|
2 edits |
said by URFloorMatt:said by wmcbrine:said by joe01880:You assume everyone in the FiOS footprint has an HD tv Not at all. HD boxes can serve SD televisions perfectly well. In fact, at this point, Verizon only offers HD capable boxes to new customers. You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace. |
|
| |
said by joe01880:So your telling me verizon is tunring away business and or forcing people buy expensive HDTV's?
Never mind, you edited your post as I was typing. |
|
PJL
join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA |
to joe01880
said by joe01880:You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace.
The HD STBs output SD versions of the HD channels via composite and RF output, applicable to SD TVs. So this would not be HD only programming. Never was and never will be. Your basic assumption that switching to all HD feeds means no SD capability is in error. |
|
tnsprin
join:2003-07-23
Bradenton, FL |
to joe01880
said by joe01880:You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace.
The HD boxes also can down convert HD signals to SD, so that a user can watch HD only Channels on their SD sets. Or the HD version of a HD channel with both hd and SD on their SD set. |
|
| |
said by tnsprin:said by joe01880:You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace.
The HD boxes also can down convert HD signals to SD, so that a user can watch HD only Channels on their SD sets. Or the HD version of a HD channel with both hd and SD on their SD set. and is the 16:9 HD feed being forced into a 4:3 SD TV screen now just a smaller box in the middle of the screen or does the 16:9 HD feed fill the entire screen? Or does it now have bars at the top and bottom, im sure you see my point. Why should people with SD only TV's have to pay a price because some want HD only channels to save QAM space to add more HD channels? If there is no change in picture size feeding a 16:9 HD feed in to a 4:3 SDTV i withdraw my objection. For that matter. my sister and mother-in-law both only have SD TV's and Cisco HD NON DVR Boxes. The one thing i can say is the guide on both TV's, one in MD and one in MA looks terrible. I have not tried to tune a HD channel on either of those SD TV's but will put it to the test just to see for myself what the picture does with regards to size. |
|
| |
said by joe01880:said by tnsprin:said by joe01880:You make it sound like HD is the only thing those HD boxes are capable of showing.They also show SD channels and there are still lots of folks who dont have HDTV's so verizon is not goiong to be able to force feed HD only programing. Never mind the networks not standing for it, the customer base wont stand for it and im not sure but the FCC might have a part in there someplace.
The HD boxes also can down convert HD signals to SD, so that a user can watch HD only Channels on their SD sets. Or the HD version of a HD channel with both hd and SD on their SD set. and is the 16:9 HD feed being forced into a 4:3 SD TV screen now just a smaller box in the middle of the screen or does the 16:9 HD feed fill the entire screen? Or does it now have bars at the top and bottom, im sure you see my point. Why should people with SD only TV's have to pay a price because some want HD only channels to save QAM space to add more HD channels? If there is no change in picture size feeding a 16:9 HD feed in to a 4:3 SDTV i withdraw my objection. That's the thing, With an HD box feeding an SDTV an HD channel* you control how a 16:9 picture appears on your 4:3 TV. With a SD channel Verizon controls how the channel appears. With an HD STB you are in control of what the picture looks like.  *Also works with 16:9 SD channels. We have two here in SoCal. |
|
| |
to joe01880
said by joe01880:and is the 16:9 HD feed being forced into a 4:3 SD TV screen now just a smaller box in the middle of the screen or does the 16:9 HD feed fill the entire screen? Or does it now have bars at the top and bottom, Generally it's an option, unlike the case where it's pre-converted by the provider. I don't know about Verizon's boxes specifically, though. im sure you see my point. Not at all. Why should people with SD only TV's have to pay a price They don't, at all. I gather you've never actually watched a downconverted HD channel? It looks better than a channel converted to SD by the provider, and having the option to control the format is a plus, especially considering that Verizon often gets it wrong. |
|
starrin
join:2005-05-29
Virginia Beach, VA |
to URFloorMatt
said by URFloorMatt 
In fact, at this point, Verizon only offers HD capable boxes to new customers.
[/BQUOTE :Wrong. I had FiOS TV installed 3 weeks ago; the 3 SDTVs got 700s. The 2 HDTV got HD boxes |
|
| |
said by starrin:Wrong. I had FiOS TV installed 3 weeks ago; the 3 SDTVs got 700s. The 2 HDTV got HD boxes
That's good to know. We have previously been told on this forum that the DCT-700 series was no longer available. It appears that information was incorrect. Experience does suggest that the 2000 series STBs have been retired, however. |
|
| |
celticpride
Anon
2012-Jul-16 2:17 pm
you folks with sd tvs need to check prices of hdtvs,they are way lower in price than you might think,5 years ago i paid over $800.00 for a 32'' hdtv, that wasnt even a flat screen!,now you can find 32'' hdtv flat screens in the $200 to $300.00 range!. I have seen 55'' to 65'' hdtvs going for less than $1000.00 at best buy and sears,as well as amazon.com. 3years ago these big screens would of cost around $2000.00 or more! |
|
 your moderator at work
 hidden :
|
| |
to celticpride
Re: More HD channels coming by October.said by celticpride :you folks with sd tvs need to check prices of hdtvs,they are way lower in price than you might think,5 years ago i paid over $800.00 for a 32'' hdtv, that wasnt even a flat screen!,now you can find 32'' hdtv flat screens in the $200 to $300.00 range!. I have seen 55'' to 65'' hdtvs going for less than $1000.00 at best buy and sears,as well as amazon.com. 3years ago these big screens would of cost around $2000.00 or more!
The only SD TV's I have are one in the dusty basement, which has an HD 7100 STB, and one in my "game room" that I use on classic game consoles. However, we have two small HDTV's that use the SD Box DCT700 because all the other boxes are too dang big! The boxes would be in the way. Also, Anything below a 32" set really isn't going to make much difference between SD and HD channels. The screen is so small. Again, if Verizon made a small HD Box, great. Again, if Verizon would pay to swap out all the SD Boxes, great. Not going to happen. |
|
| |
Photoflash
Anon
2012-Jul-16 6:16 pm
The "big box" dilemma is annoying. I have a 19 in. screen in my kitchen, and the old is just about as big as the LCD. Since the only channels I want to watch aren't OTA, I'm stuck. I did just buy an Actiontec "My Wireless TV", and in one easy test, it worked just fine. So if I can figure out how I can get rid of my superfluous 6416 DVR and keep my wife happy  , I will go that route. |
|
| |
to wmcbrine
said by wmcbrine: I gather you've never actually watched a downconverted HD channel?.
No, I haven't. |
|
starrin
join:2005-05-29
Virginia Beach, VA |
to URFloorMatt
[BQUOTE
Experience does suggest that the 2000 series STBs have been retired, however.
Gee I got a 2500-3 too. It was my free for life box, so maybe they were just dumping trash |
|
| |
said by starrin:Gee I got a 2500-3 too. It was my free for life box, so maybe they were just dumping trash
Right, that is another promotion they've been doing. But you can bet Verizon won't be considering these boxes when they make HD and MPEG4 changes. The 2500 is end of line. That's why it's free. |
|
| |
sdpadres
Anon
2012-Jul-17 11:53 am
Any word on any additional HD NBA League Pass Channels? |
|
, I will go that route.