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airwavz
Always the green wire

join:2011-09-11
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1

3 recommendations

reply to MyDogHsFleas

Re: OK got to regulate here

said by MyDogHsFleas:

"the courts and Congress who, gee, actually get to DECIDE whether something's legal or illegal, disagree."

No, you seem to have forgotten that line in the constitution about We the people. The courts and congress don't get to decide anything - they are to represent the views and choices of the people who elected / allowed them to be appointed to their position. That is all. Period. According to the very doctrine this country was founded upon, WE ARE the government - not some second-class species to be constantly observed and monitored like fish in a tank!

said by MyDogHsFleas:

"Ummm... maybe... there's a lot of people, and nations, who want to kill as many of those "innocent Americans" as possible, and cripple the USA, by any means necessary? Oh, yeah, forgot about that one."

No, I did not forget about 'that one'. There have always been people, countries, and nations who want to eliminate and/or overtake the US, as well as any other nation that disagrees with their world view. When we all lived in caves and carried big sticks there were saber-tooth tigers and scary dinosaurs trying to eat us as well, but we didn't have 'the government' to save our ass from 'the bogeyman' back then. Our distant ancestors got on with Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - or at least a decent meal - without worrying about cyber-bullying/political correctness/the red menace/evil terrorists, et al.

Any TRUE conservative would agree with one of our country's great founding fathers:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Ben Franklin

I support our government following the constitution to the very letter - beyond that give me back my freedoms, and I'll take my chances with the "menaces" of life!

How does anyone know what is actually happening? Because at least 5 (that we know of) REAL Americans have had the guts to come forward and DETAIL the blatant illegal abuses being perpetrated by the NSA and other agencies in total disregard of our constitution!!


pianotech
Pianotech
Premium
join:2002-12-30
New Castle, PA

said by airwavz:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Ben Franklin

I support our government following the constitution to the very letter - beyond that give me back my freedoms, and I'll take my chances with the "menaces" of life!

How does anyone know what is actually happening? Because at least 5 (that we know of) REAL Americans have had the guts to come forward and DETAIL the blatant illegal abuses being perpetrated by the NSA and other agencies in total disregard of our constitution!!

And that is the best comment I've read on this thread so far. You nailed it! Every day you hear of a new agency, new executive order, etc., that runs afoul of the Constitution. The sad thing is that few people actually care.
--
General class working toward Extra. Love the digital modes!


Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
reply to airwavz

I'm just gonna leave this here. Wouldn't want mydoghsfleas to think terrorists are any good at what they do.

"Americans Are as Likely to Be Killed by Their Own Furniture as by Terrorism"
»www.theatlantic.com/internationa···/258156/

"According to the report, the number of U.S. citizens who died in terrorist attacks increased by two between 2010 and 2011; overall, a comparable number of Americans are crushed to death by their televisions or furniture each year. This is not to diminish the real--albeit shrinking--threat of terrorism, or to minimize the loss and suffering of the 13,000 killed and over 45,000 injured around the world. For Americans, however, it should emphasize that an irrational fear of terrorism is both unwarranted and a poor basis for public policy decisions."


MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom
reply to airwavz

said by airwavz:

said by MyDogHsFleas:

"the courts and Congress who, gee, actually get to DECIDE whether something's legal or illegal, disagree."

No, you seem to have forgotten that line in the constitution about We the people. The courts and congress don't get to decide anything - they are to represent the views and choices of the people who elected / allowed them to be appointed to their position. That is all. Period. According to the very doctrine this country was founded upon, WE ARE the government - not some second-class species to be constantly observed and monitored like fish in a tank!

Manifestly untrue. The Constitution does not give you, personally, or any group of random people, the power to pass laws or to pass judgement on the Constitutionality of laws. We are not a town-hall-style democracy where you get to vote on individual laws. That's Congress' job. We are a representative democracy where you vote for elected officials as your representatives in the Executive and Legislative branches, and then they make appointments to the Judicial branch.

So, if you want to change things, your power is your vote. Go do it.

I can't believe I have to actually say this. How did you miss these basic facts about our country?

[bquote
said by MyDogHsFleas:

"Ummm... maybe... there's a lot of people, and nations, who want to kill as many of those "innocent Americans" as possible, and cripple the USA, by any means necessary? Oh, yeah, forgot about that one."

No, I did not forget about 'that one'. There have always been people, countries, and nations who want to eliminate and/or overtake the US, as well as any other nation that disagrees with their world view. When we all lived in caves and carried big sticks there were saber-tooth tigers and scary dinosaurs trying to eat us as well, but we didn't have 'the government' to save our ass from 'the bogeyman' back then. Our distant ancestors got on with Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - or at least a decent meal - without worrying about cyber-bullying/political correctness/the red menace/evil terrorists, et al.

Mmmmm kay then. You go right ahead and defend yourself against sleeper cells. Don't need no gummint to do that for us. Good luck with that.

You really don't think large scale state sponsored terrorism within our borders is a new thing?



Any TRUE conservative would agree with one of our country's great founding fathers:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Ben Franklin

I support our government following the constitution to the very letter - beyond that give me back my freedoms, and I'll take my chances with the "menaces" of life!

Well first off I am not a "true conservative" by any means, but nice try at pigeonholing me.

And, frankly, I am sick and tired of this stupid Ben Franklin quote that gets thrown out here every 100 milliseconds. It is essentially content-free and open to any interpretation you might want to put on it.

Do you really think Ben Franklin was against spying to thwart threats against his country? Try googling it.

How does anyone know what is actually happening? Because at least 5 (that we know of) REAL Americans have had the guts to come forward and DETAIL the blatant illegal abuses being perpetrated by the NSA and other agencies in total disregard of our constitution!!

What did they detail? And how do you leap to the conclusion that "massive illegal spying" is happening? Communications have always been accessed for national security reasons, even before there were computers or the Internet. There's nothing new there. What I am objecting to is the leap to conclusion that everyone here has that it's "illegal" and that "massive spying on Americans" is going on. we even have a thread where people are imagining that their webcams in their bedrooms are being tapped to monitor their sexual behavior. My point is, this is all speculation as to what is being done with the data.

Look, there's a set of people who think that the Internet is somehow magic and should be free of all scrutiny by countries and authorities to enforce anything we have historically enforced -- copyright law, crime, fraud, sexual exploitation of minors, terrorism, slander/libel, etc. etc. etc. Get over it. The Internet is not magic.

MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom
reply to Rambo76098

said by Rambo76098:

I'm just gonna leave this here. Wouldn't want mydoghsfleas to think terrorists are any good at what they do.

"Americans Are as Likely to Be Killed by Their Own Furniture as by Terrorism"
»www.theatlantic.com/internationa···/258156/ and over 45,000 injured around the world. For Americans, however, it should emphasize that an irrational fear of terrorism is both unwarranted and a poor basis for public policy decisions."

This is like those stories that read, "Crime rate down, but more people in prison! Why?"

ummmm....... let me think.

Maybe..... our counter terrorism measures are working?

As opposed to, terrorism is not a real threat?

Another point: household accidents are manifestly different from terrorism attacks. It's like comparing auto accidents to plane crashes. One is frequent but only affects a few people at a time. One is very infrequent but causes hundreds (or thousands or hundreds of thousands) of people to die all at once and has huge economic and political implications.

You address these two risks in very different ways.

Or are you saying that the NSA should be using its webcam-overtaking application to check whether people have safe furniture in their houses?


airwavz
Always the green wire

join:2011-09-11
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to MyDogHsFleas

said by MyDogHsFleas:

We are a representative democracy where you vote for elected officials as your representatives in the Executive and Legislative branches, and then they make appointments to the Judicial branch.

Your words.....Exactly!

Now WHAT 'BASIC FACTS' DID I MISS?!?

I can't believe I actually have to say this. How can you so completely misinterpret the constitution?

And I have been voting since I was 18 - problem is, a lot of the electorate doesn't do any research on the candidates other than believing the BS spewed from their TV sets, which tends to negate my thoughtful, prepared, and researched choices in which candidates I vote for.

But then again, I could be wrong; after all, I'm not privileged to live in the state with the record of most corporate legal victories, and home to "W"... (oh my, did I say that out loud?)

PS: In regards to "are you saying that the NSA should be using its webcam-overtaking application to check whether people have safe furniture in their houses?"

I'm saying the NSA should be eliminated, the federal government should go back to overseeing the military, and MAYBE the interstate highway system, and the rest of that tax-sucking bureaucracy should be dismantled!

PSS: And a couple more points -

said by MyDogHsFleas:

Communications have always been accessed for national security reasons, even before there were computers or the Internet. There's nothing new there. What I am objecting to is the leap to conclusion that everyone here has that it's "illegal" and that "massive spying on Americans" is going on.

No one here is leaping to conclusions - it's been admitted by Bush, Obama, the NSA, and many others that under the "authority" of new laws enacted under the guise of 'protecting us from terrorism' that this spying is being done en mass, and without warrants. Our constitution plainly states that there will be NO search, seizure, or other violation of our privacy without a warrant, granted only by review of the facts pertaining to the alleged offense.

said by MyDogHsFleas:

And, frankly, I am sick and tired of this stupid Ben Franklin quote that gets thrown out here every 100 milliseconds. It is essentially content-free and open to any interpretation you might want to put on it.

First off, how could that be open to interpretation?!? If you are willing to give up your Liberty (Freedoms granted by the Constitution of these United States of America) for some temporary safety (the illusion the government - or anyone else for that matter - can keep you out of the cross-hairs of some delusional maniac bent on destroying human life) deserves neither (because if you believe the government should protect you while you sit on your behind and watch as true heroes defend this country, you don't deserve to be a citizen of this great nation!)

And frankly, if you are so "sick and tired of this stupid Ben Franklin quote", feel free to move to a country with Sharia Law - I am sure you can support their leadership and form of government much more...


Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
reply to MyDogHsFleas

I'm pointing out that for Americans, statistically, death by terrorism is as likely as death by your own furniture.

And I'm going to have to disagree with you that we're being effective, as we kill more children in Pakistan in the war on terror, than Americans die in actual terrorism.

That sure makes us look like the terrorists, huh?

»www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne···ign.html


MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom
reply to airwavz

This is getting old.

You said: "the courts and Congress don't get to decide anything" and "we are the government".

Wrong. You are a voter and you vote for your representative, who DOES get to decide everything we're talking about, under the Constitution.

Apparently they are not deciding things to your liking. Keep voting, and try to convince others to vote your way. That's how it works.

"eliminate the NSA" yeah ok. that'll go over big in the next election. That is surely about number 479 on the list of things people are riled up about. Do you see this popping up on ANY polls anywhere?

Not to mention the fact that it's a completely unrealistic fantasy.

"it's plainly and admittedly unconstitutional" you're just saying the same thing, again, that I shot down in my OP. No, it's not. Until and unless a court says so.

ben franklin quote: I say it's completely open to interpretation, and you say no it's not, then you provide your interpretation. Lose. And then you follow it up with the lamest comeback (next to invoking the Nazi/Hitler comparison) on the Internet: "If you don't like it why don't you leave the country." GMAFB.

If this is the best you got I'm out. I'm just trying to bring some reality to this thing. Apparently it's not taking with you. Hey, I tried.


MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom
reply to Rambo76098

said by Rambo76098:

I'm pointing out that for Americans, statistically, death by terrorism is as likely as death by your own furniture.

Um, duh. I actually did understand the content of your post. Was that supposed to be a response?

And I'm going to have to disagree with you that we're being effective, as we kill more children in Pakistan in the war on terror, than Americans die in actual terrorism.

That sure makes us look like the terrorists, huh?

»www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne···ign.html

Without responding to your point, what's that got to do with the topic here, which is me asking why do you think that we haven't had any terrorism deaths in the USA since 9/11? Is it really because "terrorism isn't a big problem", which somehow is concluded based on the risks of household accidents?

You somehow want to change the meaning of the word "effective" here. Don't know how we made that leap.