dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
1829
share rss forum feed


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Mike2009

Re: [Rant] How fcked up is this? Severance for Fed employees

said by Mike2009:

said by DKS:

said by AR:

Guarantee of what? Bonuses are variable and tied to all sorts of performance criteria, some of which are completely out of individual control.

What is this "bonus" you speak of? These do not exist in many sectors. In fact, it could be seen as an exception as opposed to a rule.

Like AR, my employer has a bonus program where we can earn up to a certain percentage of our salary each year. In my case, it depends on my team's performance, our office performance as well as individual objectives.

Those of us who work in the health care, non-profit or community sector know nothing of bonuses. We are subject to wage freezes of a decade or more in length, have few benefits and get really tired of people complaining about our work.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
That does suck DKS. What do you do?


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5

2 recommendations

reply to AR
In the 1950s, CEO salaries were 20x the average worker, today its 200 to 250x the average worker. The difference......like DKShas , corporate types had a moral compass and knew there was no legitimate way they could say they worked 200 times harder or were 200 times smarter.
The past 30 years have seen govt policy favour business (just look at the reduction in taxes paid by corps and those that run them, reduce the effectiviness of Unions and remove financial safety nets for workers. No wonder our societys are slowly decaying
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


Rifleman
Premium
join:2004-02-09
p1a
Holy shit!! Anav said something I agree with.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Mike2009
said by Mike2009:

That does suck DKS. What do you do?

I work in the non-profit sector. I know of social workers (MSW) in the community sector who earn 20% less than the health care sector and who have no pension and minimal benefits. Their wages were frozen for ten years straight, as well. My wife works in the health care sector. No pension, poor benefits and salaries (which are based on a per visit fee) have not increased in five years. The word "bonus" does not exist in our reality.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to Anav
said by Anav:


The past 30 years have seen govt policy favour business (just look at the reduction in taxes paid by corps and those that run them, reduce the effectiviness of Unions and remove financial safety nets for workers. No wonder our societys are slowly decaying

But tax cuts create jobs, and pay for themselves.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
reply to DKS
"Bonus" is an illusion of a higher pay.

Some others will call it "variable compensation" which is a more honest characterization.

Variable as in where "17% of 100,000" would ideally be 17,000 but come pay out time, it could be anywhere between $0 and $17,000.

So, there's NO guarantees in the Private sector.


AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
reply to Gone
Everything in my employment contract is subject to revision or amendment.

Like i just said: x% of say $100,000 would imply x,000 in variable pay.

But come payout, it's $0 or x,0000 or somewhere in between and it's explained based on several metrics.

In the past, I've had my vacation days reduced because of the recession so that the employer could increase my productivity.

Private sector has a Finance group, a HR group and they enforce employer interests any given year to line up with the market.

Clearly, the Government has none of these because they have unlimited taxpayer monies to dip into.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
reply to Rifleman
said by Rifleman:

Holy shit!! Anav said something I agree with.

I must be slipping!


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to AR
said by AR:

Everything in my employment contract is subject to revision or amendment.

Not really, because it ultimately depends on the terms of the contract. If your employment contract included a compensation scheme where you are owed x amount of dollars after so many hours worked and you had so much of that banked, the employer just couldn't take it away. They can change the terms to prevent further accordance of that compensation, but they can't just dissolve what you're already owed unless you agree to it. If you didn't agree, you'd go to court and most likely win, and even firing you does not absolve an employer of their contractual obligations. If you left due to the employer changing the terms of the contract without your consent, it's a constructive dismissal and it's the same as if they fired you.

You can continue to rant about this all you want, and really no one here has any doubt you'll continue to do just that. But seriously, you should have a better basic understanding of the fundamentals of an collective bargaining agreement or an employment contract and the obligations of the signing parties before you go off on some tangent about how the government is supposedly screwing you.


AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
I don't understand "collective bargaining" because we don't have unions. Heck, we don't even make OT for the hours we put in let alone have someone collectively bargain for us.

So $6B going *poof* (with another raise to compensate the claw-back of this hidden perk) is amazing.

Well....till the next round because I'm sure there will be more. There was 2009 in ON and now 2012 with the Feds....let's wait till the next one.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by AR:

I don't understand "collective bargaining" because we don't have unions.

No, you have an employment contract that you negotiate directly with the employer on a one-on-one basis, rather than a group of people bargaining over that contract... collectively.

Regardless of how the contract was agreed to, the terms are binding.


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
Most employment contracts are less negotiated and more dictated by the employer. Let's be honest here.


AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
reply to Gone
You're kidding me?

1-1 basis?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Mike2009
said by Mike2009:

Most employment contracts are less negotiated and more dictated by the employer. Let's be honest here.

While I'm sure the argument can be made that they'll just find someone else if you don't like the contract, the same argument can be made that no one is forcing you to sign, and nothing is preventing you from attempting to negotiate. It also doesn't change the fact that if certain benefits or perks are presented in an employment contract, the employer is bound to them and can't unilaterally change them without you agreeing.

Case in point - a friend of mine had an employment contract presented to him, and he crossed out an entire section saying he didn't agree with it. The employer had no problem with that and the section never applied to him. Myself, I had a contract presented to me with a few key terms that I really took issue with. I brought it up, they said it was standard and wouldn't remove them, so I didn't take the job.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to AR
said by AR:

You're kidding me?

What's there to kid about? It's pretty straightforward. You have just as much right to negotiate a contract as anyone else.

In the case of the terms being binding, would you prefer the government be sued for a lot more money for violating a contract rather than just paying out, wiping their hands of it and being done with the whole thing?


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
reply to Gone
I've negotiated salary and vacation on new jobs but that's pretty much it. After that initial negotiation, it was more dictated by the employer with no deviation from company policies.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Mike2009:

I've negotiated salary and vacation on new jobs but that's pretty much it. After that initial negotiation, it was more dictated by the employer with no deviation from company policies.

The fact that you negotiated vacation pretty much proves my entire point. That, and they wouldn't have the right to get rid of your negotiated vacation time and return you to the provincial minimum without your consent, either.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
reply to AR
AR your experiencing the erosion of workers rights over the past 30 years and a scenario today where the company holds all the marbles including your short and curlys. They get corporate tax cuts while at the same time you pay more tax. That tax is often used to give same companies bailouts or grants to stay in a location (keep jobs temporarily). Meanwhile the shareholders and CEOs keep raking in profits. The taxpayers dont see much of it and the workers dont really improve their lot in life. We are morally bankrupt and slowly going fiscally in the shitter. Im sure its not only me that notices the decline in standard for just about every major sector, health care, education, roads, research, you name it. Its a broken model.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by Mike2009:

I've negotiated salary and vacation on new jobs but that's pretty much it. After that initial negotiation, it was more dictated by the employer with no deviation from company policies.

The fact that you negotiated vacation pretty much proves my entire point. That, and they wouldn't have the right to get rid of your negotiated vacation time and return you to the provincial minimum without your consent, either.

It's a good starting point but after that it's really up to the employer. To AR's point revisions to the bonus plan are usually made on an annual basis, may not be realistic or achievable and at times may not even be communicated to employees on a timely basis.


AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
reply to Anav
I know that and I completely agree to that part.


AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
reply to Gone
I was told that 15 days is the vacation time for everyone including Directors and VPs in their first year so no negotiation for me. 15 days: take it or leave it.

Negotiation on salary was with hiring manager and that's it.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by AR:

I was told that 15 days is the vacation time for everyone including Directors and VPs in their first year so no negotiation for me. 15 days: take it or leave it.

3 weeks. Not bad.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
I know.

Before, I had 10 with a US company and they brought it down to 4 during the recession (with 1 month's notice) because they wanted to cut their cost/employee.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by AR:

I know.

Before, I had 10 with a US company and they brought it down to 4 during the recession (with 1 month's notice) because they wanted to cut their cost/employee.

Ten weeks? What was that? A French company?
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by DKS:

Ten weeks? What was that? A French company?

I think he means days? Ten days, of course, is the minimum legally allowed in Ontario per the ESA. An employer wouldn't be able to legally reduce it to four days during the recession.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by Gone:

said by DKS:

Ten weeks? What was that? A French company?

I think he means days? Ten days, of course, is the minimum legally allowed in Ontario per the ESA. An employer wouldn't be able to legally reduce it to four days during the recession.

If it was ten days, that is true.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by DKS:

If it was ten days, that is true.

If it was indeed ten weeks, he has a lot of nerve complaining about the perks that federal government employees receive. My wife gets nowhere near that.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
reply to AR
I suppose we shouldnt complain, probably in advanced 3rd world sweat shops the averate time off is 10 minutes, to eat and go to the potty (or hole in the ground). Sleep being the corporate enemy.


AR
Premium,ExMod 2001-04
join:2000-09-21
Toronto, ON
reply to Gone
yeah, 10 days. They reduced it to 4 (or 7 days, can't remember) for all employees in N.America.