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rasmasyean

@rr.com
reply to Smith6612

Re: [TWC] Youtube 1080p stream DLing fast enough

There's actually a "local server" application that can cache Youtube videos? Is this something you have to partner with google to do? Can you just install it on your machine and cache videos that you "watch a lot" in your hard drive?


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:25
I'm not entirely sure what they do in order to get a local cache. I have seen it done before in one of the technology universities/institutes nearby to me and YouTube flew there for popular videos.


rasmasyean

@rr.com
hmm...You know that would actually suck for content creators. Because if a video gets popular and gets hit like 10,000 times because all the students pass it arround, the creator might only get a few views out of it. :-/


The farm

@amazon.com
1 gbps right across the street from Google datacenter, and Youtube is still slow. It's Youtube.

sm0kiE

join:2002-01-05
San Gabriel, CA
My brother has Charter, 5 miles from my residence. Youtube streams 1080p there without any buffering.

Then I drive home to my Time Warner RR connection, same speed 20Mbps, but I can't even do 720p without buffering.

Even my Sprint 4G can stream without buffering.

Edit: I just want to mention I can stream Netflix, and other HD video websites just fine (including porn sites). Just not Youtube =(


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:25
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
reply to rasmasyean
As far as I know the cache itself still reports back to YouTube. It runs on some sort of API.

The thing with YouTube seems to be the more popular videos get priority to the cache and often load faster. The least popular videos are typically very slow to load during peak hours. While I'm not near a Google Datacenter, often connections in my area whether it's Time Warner, Verizon, Frontier or even at work which is a datacenter sees issues. Work hardly sees speeds dip below 6MB/s to YouTube unless it's a very bad day for YouTube and the video is also not viewed often, but again I can't emphasize enough it's YouTube's issue, not Time Warner's. Each ISP is going to have a different route, different peering, and will hit different cache farms by default. Each cache farm will also have different videos in cache most likely (who knows how Google has that set up) based on what region they're serving up.

I will point out too, Time Warner seems to have two different routes they take for connections in my area. Some lines seem to emphesize towards routing through Chicago, and some seem to prefer going to Syracuse (and ultimately, New York City) while both ways take you to Rochester, NY first. Each connection sees the issue in a slightly different way, but it is there. I can tell if a connection prefers Chicago as those cable connections in my area score significantly less latency to my dedicated server in Chicago and a traceroute also gives it away assuming the RDNS is correct.

sm0kiE

join:2002-01-05
San Gabriel, CA
How do we complain about this or get it lifted? It's not like I stream movies all day or torrent. I just wanna watch youtube once in a while without buffering.


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:25
Might want to try hitting up the Google forums. It seems when enough people complain on there about slow speeds it tends to get fixed. Either way, I don't really think Google has support for complaining to beyond that, at least that I'm aware of.

sm0kiE

join:2002-01-05
San Gabriel, CA
Are you sure it's google? Because I can load any 1080p movie on a Charter connection just fine...


rasmasyean

@rr.com
reply to Smith6612
I guess the cache still reporting back to YouTube makes sense, cuz Google prolly wants to mazimize the number of Ads they can flip through.

OK, so when you're talking about "cache", you're presuming there's a Google Youtube datacenter cache, Cableco Yoututbe datacenter cache, Private Youtube Datacenter cache? So if your video is "not popular" in any one of those "waypoints", your outta luck...

How do you test the "speed to Youtube" by the way? So you have some type of application that tests that specific site?


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:25
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..

1 edit
reply to sm0kiE
said by sm0kiE:

Are you sure it's google? Because I can load any 1080p movie on a Charter connection just fine...

Positive. There's a reason their community forums are stuffed with "YouTube Slow" posts and why other sites such as Vimeo work fine. If it were an ISP issue more stuff would be broken or slow than just YouTube itself. Considering how many properties Google owns that they have to run over their network and how heavily trafficked their sites are, YouTube puts a huge dent on their bandwidth. Google.com itself always runs quickly. Google Plus beats the snot out of Facebook in speed, yet, YouTube suffers in speed. If my ISP were at fault, all Google products would run horribly.

The Internet is a huge, complex machine...

normalfarm

join:2012-07-13
Actually its not YouTube. The real reason is the DNS server you use. When I switch to OpenDNS (208.67.222.222, 208.67.220.220) or Google's Public DNS (8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4) YouTube loads videos quickly but once I use TWC DNS (209.18.47.61, 209.18.47.62) speeds are crap.

sm0kiE

join:2002-01-05
San Gabriel, CA

2 edits
I don't use Time Warner DNS. I had google DNS on this computer and switched to openDNS recently. Still buffers =(

Also how come the same video plays 1080p on Charter and I drive to the TWC place and 5 min later the same video can only watch 480p without buffering? In fact it almost never buffers on Charter connection, but almost always buffers on TWC connection. You may be right, it's just this is what's bothering me.

One more thing, this might be my conspiracy theory but if you google up "Time Warner traffic shaping" it will suggest "Time Warner traffic shaping youtube" the same thing if you type "Time Warner throttle" you get a youtube suggestion too. This means a lot of people have searched for in order for it to become a suggestion right? But when I put in other cable providers it doesn't suggest youtube but instead says p2p.


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:25
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
What would be the best thing to do in this case, since we can't seem to come to a conclusion would be to run a network monitoring program (or simply view your Browser's Status Bar should it show this info) to see what video farm and cache your video is being loaded from. There's a nifty trick I use to get around slow servers. Often times when videos are slow, I will begin to download the video. The URL to the download will begin as something like this:

»o-o.preferred.iad23t04.v1.cache4 ··· layback?...

The URL itself can be random, however I find that by changing the numeric value for "v*" and "cache*" I can often go from a server loading at 80KB/s to one that will punch out megabytes a second. If you can do this, even if it takes two or three times it is absolutely not an ISP issue.

DNS servers may make a difference with CDNs since they often determine where you get routed to. The ISP makes a difference as well based on what routes they broadcast (and from Google as well) and based on how the CDN wishes to operate for that ISP. In addition to finding out what farm you're hitting though, certainly run a traceroute on an Idle connection, using UDP packets if possible (not ICMP) to the farm server you're seeing issues to, and then to one that isn't giving you issues.

For speed monitoring, load up a really long video and set the quality to 1080p or Original. From that point, right click on the video player and click on "Show Video Info." In the box that appears, it should tell you what speed it is pulling in next to the "HTTP" lettering. Or, you could just use a normal network monitor for your computer to see what you're getting or simply download the same 1080p/Original video to your hard drive as a test.


rasmasyean

@rr.com
You mean like "Windows Task Manager" -> "Networking" to monitor that graph? Damn, this really sucks, it drops to like 0.1-ish% at times. I guess that's 1Mbps?

The video doesn't even buffer all the way on PAUSE. The grey bar stops and Network Utilization is 0% after a some seconds of content loading.

Also, my Flash info's "http" doesn't have anythigng next to it. Furthurmore it says it's 640x360 no matter what I select.

Yeah, I "upgraded to Turbo" a couple of days ago and it didn't do jack.


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:25
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
I'm not saying going through the task manager, but maybe with a sidebar gadget or another program that is capable of measuring traffic.

The video playback has to start for the resolution to change. Also, YouTube changed their buffering policy on the players to limit so many seconds of video to buffer before it stops loading if the video is not playing. It's another one of their bandwidth management methods but there's an easy fix around that (Use HTML5 or a Userscript) as it's just a variable in the Flash player.


rasmasyean

@rr.com
OK, how do you use HTML5 and/or a Userscript? :P


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:25
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..
Visit: »youtube.com/html5 if your browser supports HTML5 and the required codecs for YouTube and join the beta. It's set by a browser cookie.

For a userscript, use the script I use called "YousableTubeFix" if you have a browser that supports Greasemonkey scripts (Google Chrome, Firefox with Greasemonkey installed...) and install it. Get the script from userscripts.org.


rasmasyean

@rr.com
The HTML 5 still doesn't allow DL-all-video. You know what, I think I was already in that beta too. I was wondering why some vids won't full-screen. Now I know, it's because they were HTML 5 vids. :P


rasmasyean

@rr.com
Aha! So that's why I wasn't getting the correct "Video Info". HTML5 Video Info doesn't work. But when you go to vids with Ads...it shows you Flash video (which displays the correct video info). I guess at this point HTML5 is still in beta stage. And we all are beta testers. lol


rasmasyean

@rcn.com
I just wanted to give an update on the situation. I went to RCN but I got 50/6. So far, I haven't had any noteworthy "speedtest" deviations from the advertised speed in the past 2 days I've had it. Furthurmore, Youtube 1080p seems to ALWAYS stream in a lot faster than the playing...at least up until the grey bar is maxed (then it seems to fill as fast as it's playing). On initial load, it only buffers for a tiny moment, and then plays smoothy to the end.