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Adrik Ivanov to Frodo
Anon
2012-Jul-11 9:12 pm
to Frodo
Re: Is it possible to quit Google?said by Frodo:I've been using this search engine:
»startpage.com/do/metasearch.pl
"Enhanced by Google"
"Startpage offers you Web search results from Google in complete privacy!
When you search with Startpage, we remove all identifying information from your query and submit it anonymously to Google ourselves. We get the results and return them to you in total privacy".
So they say.
Startpage is good, but isn't anyone curious as to why Google allows them to scrap their servers when they generate revenue based on knowing what people are searching? I'm not sure I fully trust them. The HTTPS version of Duckduckgo on the other hand, appears trustworthy. Each time anyone discovers a 'potential' flaw in DDG the owner makes adjustments to fix the potential loopholes. For example Amazon-Cloud hosts his search indexers, and one person discovered that in theory - Amazon could scrap the searches. So Gabriel at DDG developed a system that uses proxy servers in the basement of his home to redirect your searches through the indexer. Gab is extremely privacy aware.. » www.gabrielweinberg.com/ ··· ous.htmlI have now solved this problem by setting up a reverse proxy between me and S3. This costs me more bandwidth and server resources, but it is worth it to solve the privacy problem for you. Additionally, it actually improves usability because a) I set up a cache on my end and b) I can now turn off https to S3. Furthermore, it is even more private than simply dropping the Referer string. Since you are no longer making the request on your side, your IP address isn't being sent to them at all. I can also explicitly set the Referer string (using the nginx more headers module), which I set to 'http://duckduckgo.com/'; I haven't used Google in quite some time, and if I do I ensure I am on an overseas proxy before I do. There are a few major contenders for videos that are up and coming that will challenge Youtube. Unfortunately one of the big players was MegaUpload, they had an amazing video service but the feds didn't like them challenging the cartel corporations. I would never, ever, install or log into anything google, ever. Chrome is privacy suspicious, Iron is much better in this regard, but I think Opera is probably the safest to use. |
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Frodo
Member
2012-Jul-11 10:40 pm
said by Adrik Ivanov :Startpage is good, but isn't anyone curious as to why Google allows them to scrap their servers when they generate revenue based on knowing what people are searching? I'm not sure I fully trust them. They're quick. The other sister site is » ixquick.com/No mention of Google on that site. I've tried Duckduckgo but the results didn't seem "google" like. Haven't tried them lately. |
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Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI |
to Adrik Ivanov
Duckduckgo has terrible search results. Plus, that is Amazon. I hate Amazon as much, if not more, than Google.
The best current solution (since the demise of Scroogle) is Google Sharing extension for Fx. |
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Adrik Ivanov
Anon
2012-Jul-12 11:38 am
said by Mele20:Duckduckgo has terrible search results. Plus, that is Amazon. I hate Amazon as much, if not more, than Google.
The best current solution (since the demise of Scroogle) is Google Sharing extension for Fx.
Actually DDG has the most relevant search results. Why? They only robot actual links to other links, rather than all web content. This means the searches are always going to result in valid working links, that lead somewhere important. Google spiders trawl the entire internet, offering really stupid results. Also Google tampers with results to convey their desired end-result - untrustworthy. Do you even read? I already posted how doing DDG searches doesn't even expose you to Amazon because DDG uses a reverse proxy to protect user searches. Have you checked the privacy policy on that search proxy you are recommending? Might want to.. Not to m ention Firefox is crap anyone. DDG has one of the best privacy policies in the industry. DDG has no affiliation whatsoever with Amazon, they merely contact some of their server architecture, then install additional privacy protection over that. Why? DDG used to run on servers in Gabriels basement, but it has become so popular he needed to leverage much much more server power to maintain speed and accuracy. The indexers I believe are still housed in his basement, along with the reverse proxy that protects users IP from being sniffed. Once again - read the links: » www.gabrielweinberg.com/ ··· ous.html |
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Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI |
Mele20
Premium Member
2012-Jul-12 11:19 pm
I don't need to be spoon-fed. I like to make my own decisions about what web sites are "important". Why would I do a search in the first place if I did not want ALL WEB CONTENT for my search terms returned? Duckduckgo is trying to control MY search. I don't want that! The same thing happens with Startpage and don't like it either.
Yes, I have read the privacy policy for Abine. Yeah, I have to trust that they are telling the truth. Just as I would have to trust that what you say about Duckduckgo search is the truth and just as I had to trust Scroogle was telling the truth. If I liked puny search results like I get with Duckduckgo then I might decide to trust its privacy policy but I think Duckduckgo has horrible search results so I don't need to decide whether or not to trust its privacy policy. Same with Startpage...crappy search results and Startpage uses an SSL provider that I have as untrusted in my browsers and it makes for lots of difficulty (except on Opera) when trying to make a trust exception for Startpage SSL cert.
I use the Proxomitron with Sidki's 12/2011 configs. It protects me with Google and Google Sharing extension simply provides another layer of protection. I hope to see Google Sharing extended to Sea Monkey and Opera in the near future as I have seen Ghostery get extended to them. |
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to Adrik Ivanov
said by Adrik Ivanov :Chrome is privacy suspicious, Iron is much better in this regard, but I think Opera is probably the safest to use.
There is no difference in Iron and Chromium. I saw an article where a guy got the Iron source code and diff'ed it against the Chromium codebase. He found that the only difference is they deleted a few lines of code related to the RLZ tracking and a couple of other things that can be easily turned off in Chrome. In any case, Chromium (the development version of Chrome) has none of these tracking features by default. (No RLZ, no usage statistics, and no auto-updates). Even in regular Chrome, all of them can be turned off. So you might as well use Chromium and not a project ran by amateurs such as Iron. EDIT: I would also like to add that those of you looking for a privacy enhanced search engine (with better results than DDG), take a look at privatelee. » privatelee.qrobe.it |
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OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17 |
OZO
Premium Member
2012-Jul-13 12:36 am
said by KodiacZiller:There is no difference in Iron and Chromium.
...
In any case, Chromium (the development version of Chrome) has none of these tracking features by default.
Do you actually run it (Iron and/or Chromium) or you are just guessing about all of that? I'm asking because I do (in fact, I type this post in the latest developer's version right now - v22.0.1203.0) and I know for sure, that Chromium always try to snoop my browsing via permanently set secure connection (TLSv1.1 - 443)) to clients4.google.com. I don't see that happen with Iron... Do you know how to turn it off in Chromium's settings without putting that host in hosts file (as I do)? |
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Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI |
to KodiacZiller
You are wrong. With Chrome you get Flash updates force fed and you cannot have Chrome without Flash nor can you allow Flash but control updates for it. You also get ALL UPDATES OF ANY SORT for Chrome FORCE FED to you. You have NO choices if you use Chrome. With Iron, YOU the user decide IF and WHEN you wish to update Iron.
Chrome is FULL of privacy invasion crap that is NOT in Iron. As for Flash, you want it for Iron you, the user, have to download Flash and you, the user, decides when it will be updated, etc.
With Chrome you have married Google and you always are naked in a glass house. That is not true for any other browser including Iron. |
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aadsfs
Anon
2012-Jul-13 11:13 am
Third time I have posted this (or similar link) in reply to you Mele20 Turning Off Auto Updates in Google Chrome » dev.chromium.org/adminis ··· -updates |
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Kir Vasiliy
Anon
2012-Jul-13 12:19 pm
Here are some privacy tips I wrote up for Windows7+Browsing. First disable/uncheck ALL of them except QoS and IPv4.. It's safe, and won't change anything except making your system more secure/faster: (unless you run a shared windows network of course) » tothepc.com/img/2010/02/ ··· ipv6.pngNext select IPv6 then advanced, to disable LMHosts and Netbios via this method: » www.techrepublic.com/art ··· /1059485Now you need to disable Teredo and ISATAP. From the start menu/run command type; Basically hit start, then in the box at the bottom type in CMD to open command prompt. Open a cmd prompt Type the following commands one line at a time; netsh interface ipv6 6to4 set state state=disabled netsh interface ipv6 set teredo disable netsh interface ipv6 isatap set state state=disabled Next go download SRware Iron: (secure Chrome Browser) » www.srware.net/en/softwa ··· load.phpOnce installed load it up and in the address bar type: chrome://flags Scroll down and ENABLE: Override software rendering list GPU compositing on all pages Threaded compositing GPU Accelerated SVG and CSS Filters Disable GPU VSync HTTP Pipelining Built-in Asynchronous DNS Preload Instant Search Disable hyperlink auditing The last one increases privacy because it disables the constant 'auditing' of links through various servers, and it also speeds up processing. Right click the ICON for IRON go to properties, then on the command line to execute it add a space, then --incognito and this will launch it always in higher privacy mode. » www.blogcdn.com/download ··· asdf.jpgCLOSE the browser, shut down the system (full shutdown), then turn everything back on, go into the browser, and see what you find. What you will LIKELY find is a significant improvement in browsing speed/page rendering in Windows Vista/7. |
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| Kir Vasiliy |
to KodiacZiller
Thats a cool search engine, thanks! One way to enhance privacy with Startpage is to 'force' the IP to use their off-shore servers + encryption, thereby bypassing any US-Based storage of your searches on any potential server clusters. Spreading yourself over multiple jurisdictions. For example to enforce a search to a Netherlands based, higher security Startpage server, you'd merely enter: » eu3.startpage.com/alternatively; 85.17.181.230 I think I was one of the first people to figure this out, then research it. I have dozens of IP's for Startpage over multiple jurisdictions outside of the USA, and toggle between them as necessary, spreading my searches out, reducing potential tracking. Enhancing privacy. |
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
1 recommendation |
to Kir Vasiliy
said by Kir Vasiliy :Here are some privacy tips I wrote up for Windows7+Browsing.
my tips: a) reformat b) install linux c) profit |
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OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17 |
OZO to Mele20
Premium Member
2012-Jul-13 5:18 pm
to Mele20
said by Mele20:You are wrong. With Chrome ...
He was talking about Chromium, not Chrome. They're different animals. |
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to Mele20
said by Mele20:You are wrong. With Chrome you get Flash updates force fed and you cannot have Chrome without Flash nor can you allow Flash but control updates for it. That is true in Chrome but absolutely not true with Chromium. Chromium does not bundle flash. You also get ALL UPDATES OF ANY SORT for Chrome FORCE FED to you. You have NO choices if you use Chrome. Not true. Auto-updating can be turned off in Chrome (and is not present at all in Chromium). Chrome is FULL of privacy invasion crap that is NOT in Iron. Can you read source code? I am doubting it. Let's listen to those who can. There is absolutely zero difference in Iron and Chrome outside of Iron deleting the code related to RLZ and auto-update. Zero, zilch, nada. No difference. And RLZ and auto-update can be turned off in Chrome. With Chrome you have married Google and you always are naked in a glass house. That is not true for any other browser including Iron.
IE perhaps? |
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Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI |
to aadsfs
So what? I am not a BUSINESS. Most users are NOT businesses. I don't want to have to download group policy templates for Google Chrome and other Google programs, set all that up, edit the registry, etc just so that Chrome will no longer automatically update. Gee, I don't have to do anything like that with Iron or with any other browser ALL OF WHICH RESPECT MY RIGHTS...all except Chrome (and Safari and I won't touch that crap browser either). Besides, Chrome would still spy on me (or at least try to). Plus, there is no mention of how to keep Flash out of Chrome. Or, if you really want it, how to keep it from auto updating and resetting your privacy settings without your permission. |
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said by Mele20:So what? I am not a BUSINESS. Most users are NOT businesses. I don't want to have to download group policy templates for Google Chrome and other Google programs, set all that up, edit the registry, etc just so that Chrome will no longer automatically update. Use Chromium then. It has no auto-update and no other kind of tracking. Personally I like it that Chrome updates itself automatically. Too many people out there refuse to update their machines. And since the browser is the #1 attack vector, I think Google is doing the right thing. |
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Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
1 edit |
Mele20
Premium Member
2012-Jul-14 4:21 am
I have no intention of using Chrome, Chromium or Iron. I hate the sandboxed tabs, the HUGE amount of RAM needed (because of the sandboxed tabs), the mess the sandboxed tabs make of Task Scheduler Manager so that you almost can't use it, and, most of all, the general crudeness of Chrome/Chromium/Iron browser and the mostly childish, stupid extensions available. |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ |
AVD
Premium Member
2012-Jul-16 9:02 am
sandboxed tabs offer tremendous security and also work very nicely in a multi-core or multiprocessor environment. |
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Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI |
Mele20
Premium Member
2012-Jul-16 8:37 pm
This is a multi processor computer even though old now. I've had a multi processor computer since 2003 (this is my second one that has multi processor). I need more RAM though and can't add it because nVidia mobo limited the amount of RAM (unless I had installed XP Pro 64 bit and then I could have had up to 8GB RAM) in what was Dell's flagship gaming computer when it was new. The only reason I can think for why the RAM was so limited is because XP 64 bit was still thought to be viable but it never did get the driver support needed. (Dell told me I could add RAM on 32bit XP Pro which was incorrect).
I don't need the security. I use the Proxomitron and on this computer also Process Guard. Even when I get a new computer, I shouldn't need sandboxing of tabs. That is for ignorant of computers users and those without proper layered security. |
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 Name Game
Premium Member
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI |
Name Game
Premium Member
2012-Jul-16 11:01 pm
Have to admit..you have this thing for Google just like i have for Dell..would not touch their stuff if they gave it away. |
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 NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU
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NetFixer
Premium Member
2012-Jul-16 11:42 pm
said by Name Game:Have to admit..you have this thing for Google just like i have for Dell..would not touch their stuff if they gave it away.
 Free is how I obtained the Dell equipment that I have used in the past. I don't currently have any Dell equipment in use...the last Dell PC I had went belly up about a month ago, and I didn't feel like bothering to see if the problem was the MB or the PSU (and I didn't have any more "known good" Dell MBs or PSUs lying around). I replaced it with a Toshiba notebook that I similarly obtained (I had several bad ones in storage, and I swapped parts around to make one useable one). Customer: "You have to be kidding, I can buy a new PC for less than your repair estimate!" Me: "OK, I'll dispose of this old Dell PC for you, do you want me to send you your 'My Documents' stuff on a CD/DVD?" |
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Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI |
Mele20
Premium Member
2012-Jul-17 12:29 am
See, that is why I stick with Dell. I pay for the 5 year extended warranty which comes out to the price of a cheap computer. I'd love to configure a Falcon but the shipping costs for a 55 pound desktop from Hawaii to the West Coast and back would be prohibitive even once (not to mention the hassle of having to box it up and take it to UPS). Falcon has a good warranty....but ONLY for those in the contiguous states. When the warranty on my current computer ran out...I've just used it with its problems partly because it is old, and time for a new computer, but also because the cost to fix it locally is prohibitive at any point during its life span. Small things I can fix myself but not big ones and not anything that requires a tear down of the computer to get to whatever needs fixing or replacing.
So, I stay with Dell and their extended warranty which currently is USA phone support...no more India...and decent in home repair. I do take issue with Dell forcing me to buy protection for spills and dropping the computer. It is extremely unlikely that i will be dropping a desktop computer that sits in a cabinet or that I will be spilling liquid all over it...how could I do that unless deliberate? Then I also resent Dell's forcing me to buy software support which I don't need. Dell never did this until their new line. If I lived on the Mainland, I would probably not have bought a Dell after my second one back in 2003. |
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NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU
1 edit |
NetFixer
Premium Member
2012-Jul-17 1:04 am
I used to do authorized field support for Dell (and several other brand name PC makers), although most of my support was targeted to enterprise level customers instead of residential/soho/smb customers. I stopped doing that however long before I retired because the calls were frequently to small branch offices or plants in the boonies, and the pay schedule for that kind of work seldom included adequate reimbursement for calls with 2-3 hour drive times (and my arthritis had started to make multi-hour drives on winding mountain roads a bit less than pleasurable, despite the nice scenic views). The availability of local hardware support is one reason that I did in fact recommend Dell to soho/smb clients who did not have in-house support capabilities. I made my money from those clients with value added services, not from selling them hardware. I wasn't necessarily knocking Dell with my previous post. If I didn't think their products were worth using, I would not have bothered to occasionally make one good one from several dead ones for my own in-house use. Hmm, when did this thread morph from a Google thread to a Dell thread?  |
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Krystal Trav to Name Game
Anon
2012-Jul-19 4:30 pm
to Name Game
said by Name Game:Have to admit..you have this thing for Google just like i have for Dell..would not touch their stuff if they gave it away.
Yeah Dell is absolute trash. People need to build their own PC's, it's not complicated and you can do fun stuff like use 2 SSD's and install Windows on one and Linux on the other, if you don't game, skip windows altogether and roll with Mint or something. But Dell is very painful, they use poor components, and install massive bloat onto their machines. I wouldn't recommend Dell to someone I disliked for fear of being too evil to them - let alone someone I liked! A $600.00 computer - self built, is fast, and will be fast for years. A $600 Dell box is obsolete the day you get it, and requires extensive upgrades if you make even minor changes. You know those awesome 250w PS's, and hideous graphic cards they use. IF you choose to go with a higher end Dell, bend over! Lotta talk on these forum from people that are trying to appear to be experts, but the fact is folks like Mele20 are newbs - security or otherwise. |
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dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
1 edit
1 recommendation |
dave
Premium Member
2012-Jul-19 4:58 pm
The entire computer-using population of the USA 'need to build their own PCs'? I think your viewpoint might be just a teeny bit myopic.
Actually, that much is obvious, given you're sneering at 250W power supplies with no context given. The last two desktop PCs I built (which would have met your $600 price point except I added $200 worth of SSD on top of that) have 150W power supplies, which is maybe double the steady-state requirement. And they perform pretty well.
The "my power supply is bigger than yours" crowd seems to have, uh, issues.
There's room for both Dell and home-builts in the world. In fact, I use both. I have a perfectly adequate Dell server. Of course I could have built one, but why bother? It's already way faster than need be for what it actually does, which is backups and a little media-serving. |
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NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU
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NetFixer
Premium Member
2012-Jul-19 11:10 pm
said by dave:Actually, that much is obvious, given you're sneering at 250W power supplies with no context given. The last two desktop PCs I built (which would have met your $600 price point except I added $200 worth of SSD on top of that) have 150W power supplies, which is maybe double the steady-state requirement. And they perform pretty well.
The "my power supply is bigger than yours" crowd seems to have, uh, issues...
Yep, shown below are the UPS stats for my two servers, and the one with 140W usage also includes the common monitor and KVM used by both servers. Also the system that shows 115W usage has 5 internal HDDs (not low power SSDs), and two external HDDs (that are powered by the UPS, but not by that system's PSU). 
And FYI, the reason I have not "standardized" on UPS brands/models is because I obtained those UPS boxes the same way that I obtained the Dell PCs that I have used; I got them from clients who preferred to purchase a new UPS rather than just buy new batteries (and pay me to replace them).
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Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI |
to Krystal Trav
said by Krystal Trav :People need to build their own PC's, it's not complicated and you can do fun stuff like use 2 SSD's and install Windows on one and Linux on the other, if you don't game, skip windows altogether and roll with Mint or something. But Dell is very painful, they use poor components, and install massive bloat onto their machines. I wouldn't recommend Dell to someone I disliked for fear of being too evil to them - let alone someone I liked!
A $600.00 computer - self built, is fast, and will be fast for years. A $600 Dell box is obsolete the day you get it, and requires extensive upgrades if you make even minor changes. You know those awesome 250w PS's, and hideous graphic cards they use. IF you choose to go with a higher end Dell, bend over! Lotta talk on these forum from people that are trying to appear to be experts, but the fact is folks like Mele20 are newbs - security or otherwise.
That's hilarious. I know you are the newb not me because what you said about Dell is not at all true. Sure, I could build one and a local shop here offered me any help I needed if I did that....but it is a hassle being in Hawaii...ordering parts that take a while to get here, may be DOA, etc. It is not fun to build a computer when you live in Hawaii. This local shop told me I could have them build me a computer exactly as I want it and I could have full control over what parts and brands of parts were ordered, etc. I decided against that also. This will be my fourth Dell. And yeah, any $600 computer is junk INCLUDING a self built one. My current Dell that is over six years old has a 650 watt power supply .... so what is this about a 250 watt one? The one I probably am going to buy has a small solid state drive and also 2TB regular hard drive and I'll probably order a second regular hard drive to be installed at the factory. As for graphics, yeah, the nVidia (what I want) cards Dell offers are mediocre but that is nVidia's fault as they have no midstream cards currently. So, if I buy now I'll be getting the Radeon 7870 which Dell says works fine with a 460 watt power supply. I want the GeForce GTX 660 Ti which is due out third week of August. So, I'm going to wait as I think Dell will offer it. As for bloat installed by Dell...yeah, they used to do that (that's how Dell Decrapifier came about years ago) and that is why I have bought in the past from Dell Small Business Division as no crap installed on ones bought from there. But from Dell Home division the one I am probably buying (Dell pulled them from Small Business in April...the desktops...the laptops can still be bought from that division) has only one piece of crap on it...McAfee antivirus but I understand that is a trial although it says 15 months. But if not actually installed then there is no crap on Dells today. |
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| Mele20 |
to NetFixer
said by NetFixer:And FYI, the reason I have not "standardized" on UPS brands/models is because I obtained those UPS boxes the same way that I obtained the Dell PCs that I have used; I got them from clients who preferred to purchase a new UPS rather than just buy new batteries (and pay me to replace them).
Really? Changing the battery on an APC UPS is not hard to do. But they do have to be re-calibrated after a battery change otherwise the Powerchute software will report weird crap. My current UPS is almost nine years old and the current battery in it is over 5 years old. As for the power supply you can easily get sucked into needing true sinewave UPS with a larger power supply and they are more than twice the price of a good stepped sinewave one. That wasn't the case back when I got my current computer that has a 650 watt power supply but Energy Savings requirements were only in the early stages then. I may have a problem now even with just a 460 watt power supply and stepped sinewave. |
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NetFixerFrom My Cold Dead Hands
Premium Member
join:2004-06-24
The Boro Netgear CM500
Pace 5268AC
TRENDnet TEW-829DRU
2 edits |
NetFixer
Premium Member
2012-Jul-20 5:05 am
said by Mele20:said by NetFixer:And FYI, the reason I have not "standardized" on UPS brands/models is because I obtained those UPS boxes the same way that I obtained the Dell PCs that I have used; I got them from clients who preferred to purchase a new UPS rather than just buy new batteries (and pay me to replace them).
Really? Changing the battery on an APC UPS is not hard to do. But they do have to be re-calibrated after a battery change otherwise the Powerchute software will report weird crap. My current UPS is almost nine years old and the current battery in it is over 5 years old... Ease of battery changing depends very much on the actual UPS model. It takes me about an hour to change the batteries in my Eaton PowerWare Prestige UPS. It requires a complete dis assembly of the unit, and it is a total PITA to get the new batteries physically installed and then put the case back together without the batteries or internal components shifting position and keeping the case halves from fitting properly. Some older APC units are not exactly plug and play for battery changes either, although they are not nearly as difficult as doing so in the PowerWare box. Not everything is/was built to be user friendly. Some things have in fact been deliberately built to force the user to return the unit to the factory or to an authorized repair depot for almost anything that needs to be done. Replacing batteries in an iPhone or iPad comes to mind for recently produced items that meet that criteria (and older model APC UPS boxes were also not designed to allow an end user who was not a competent electronics tech to change the batteries). |
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dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
1 recommendation |
to Mele20
said by Mele20:And yeah, any $600 computer is junk INCLUDING a self built one. More spouting off about absolutes without ever considering the use. I suppose you wouldn't have any use for the $200 computer that I have running Windows 7 Media Center (which is perfectly powerful enough for what I use it for). One size does not fit all requirements. |
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