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donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

donoreo

Premium Member

[Serious] We are considering private school - want opinions

It almost seems a no-brainer in our case.

We both work (except my wife is in between contracts right now) so we would nee a before and after school program for the girls. They have this at the public school they are registered at. We can drop off at 8 and pick up at 6 if we needed to. Before and after school are basically supervised play times. The girls will be going into grade 1 in September (my little girls are growing up - but that is another issue).

Near us is a small private school. It is actually a little closer than the public school. They provide a before and after school program as part of the tuition. They also provide lunch and snacks. We can drop off at 7:30 and pick up at 6:30 if needed (we would not need that early, but that late sometimes could be handy). The after school program starts at 3:30 with a snack and a little play time. Then they do "homework" club, where they get teacher assisted help with homework. They also have various other activities that are not just play time (they can do piano lessons, for example).

The classes are limited to 17 students. The current grade 1 class only had 14 this year. We know someone who had a child in it and they love it. After grade 3, they rotate teachers so that you have a more specialized teacher doing math, english, art, etc.

Yes, they wear uniforms, but they are somewhat relaxed. They said no child is sent home because they did not have a complete uniform on, they understand sometimes laundry day gets missed. I like the uniform idea, we already have some very picky girls with clothes.

They are small, so they lack some things like a really good gym. They have a large space that they use, but it is not great.

We are thinking of doing this at least until grade 3, maybe 6. They do go up to grade 8.

The bottom line of it, the private school is $200 more per month than the before and after school program at the public school. So, all of that for $200 ($100 per child, we actually get a multi-child discount).

Can anyone suggest some other concerns that we may not have thought of? I know I will still be paying a portion of my taxes into the public system, so that does through the $200 figure a bit if one wants to get deep into numbers.

So, comments? Suggestions? Other things to consider?

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot

Premium Member

I believe it depends specifically on the school in question and the only way to get the answer you need, is to discuss it with people that have been directly involved with the school. Intelligent kids that are in university or parents of children that are in university is the best way to learn how well the school has recently performed for them.

Those that administer the school are concerned about the bottom line, increasing enrolment to increase profit, usually utilized to increase the lucrative nature of the school as its perceived by parents so it increases that bottom line. So, in the end, their quest for more money can also offer improvements for your children.

Teachers at these schools are often more directly involved in the growth of their students and often care more for their students than public school teachers. They're also less stressed than public school teachers for various reasons.

My opinion is that private schools are typically better for your children but it entirely depends on the school.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

And a shitload more money, the two girls will push 50k, I say this because on of my sisters sends her son to private school at 25k/yr
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to donoreo

Premium Member

to donoreo
Kids today don't get enough exercise - even in schools with gyms.
Don't worry about the private school not having a gym.....let them get whatever extra on the weekends via swimming or some kids program at the Y.
NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON

NCRGuy to elwoodblues

Member

to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

And a shitload more money, the two girls will push 50k, I say this because on of my sisters sends her son to private school at 25k/yr

Tuitions for private schools vary widely. Hyperbole based on the extreme is not helpful.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan to donoreo

Premium Member

to donoreo
I'd like to add something, but urbanriot See Profile has summed it up nicely... It's VERY dependant on the school, as not all are created equal.

If the school is good, and you can afford it; I don't see a downside.

donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

donoreo to elwoodblues

Premium Member

to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

And a shitload more money, the two girls will push 50k, I say this because on of my sisters sends her son to private school at 25k/yr

Nope. Half that, for both.

I forgot to mention that this school participates in the standardized testing and gets excellent scores. In the Fraser Institute rankings of schools they get a 10 out of 10.

The school is family owned. The woman who started it had been a partner in another school in the 80s. She wanted to do things a little differently so started on her own.

They have a full computer lab (although they are all Windows computers :P ) as well.
donoreo

donoreo to LazMan

Premium Member

to LazMan
said by LazMan:

I'd like to add something, but urbanriot See Profile has summed it up nicely... It's VERY dependant on the school, as not all are created equal.

If the school is good, and you can afford it; I don't see a downside.

From everything we can tell, they are good. As I said, they get a good rating and do very well on the standardized tests.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to NCRGuy

Premium Member

to NCRGuy
It's based on experience, not hyperbole!

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to donoreo

MVM

to donoreo
Public schools are in the business of educating children. Private schools are in the business of turning a profit. Why anybody would trust their child's education to a private school is beyond me.

Statistics Canada has some interesting statistics on private schools, although they're admittedly from 1998. On average, they spend almost exactly the same amount of money per student as public schools (so you're not getting any more value from the extra money).

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot

Premium Member

said by Guspaz:

Why anybody would trust their child's education to a private school is beyond me.

The teacher's and coaches at a private school near Gone and I all seem very dedicated and engaged in their students' lives, far beyond anything I've seen at a public school. If I lived near there, it's where my kids would go.

As I posted above, they're not about turning a profit, it's only the people that run the school that are engaged in that mission; the teacher's are there to teach and the principle is there to manage the teachers.
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

Robrr to Guspaz

Member

to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

Public schools are in the business of educating children. Private schools are in the business of turning a profit. Why anybody would trust their child's education to a private school is beyond me.

Statistics Canada has some interesting statistics on private schools, although they're admittedly from 1998. On average, they spend almost exactly the same amount of money per student as public schools (so you're not getting any more value from the extra money).

The value comes in things that you might not consider like school class sizes. There is a big difference between a teacher dealing with 20 students vs 30 students.

Studies have shown that and honestly this seems pretty obvious; the less kids a teacher has to teach, the better the teacher knows each student and is able to help each student.

donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

donoreo

Premium Member

I forgot something! Right now the girls are in a daycare that does a JK and SK program. The private school is cheaper. So, at the end of the month we would have more money no matter which way we go.

If we want really money, here it is:

Before and after school program: $950
Private school: $1100
Daycare now: $1800 give or take

Those are real approximate numbers The before and after if by the day, so some month cost more.
NCRGuy
join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON

NCRGuy to elwoodblues

Member

to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

It's based on experience, not hyperbole!

It's based on anecdotal and limited experience. Donoreo himself pointed out he's looking at about a quarter the cost you suggested. Thus hyperbole. Not every private school is UCC or Havergal.

donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

donoreo

Premium Member

said by NCRGuy:

said by elwoodblues:

It's based on experience, not hyperbole!

It's based on anecdotal and limited experience. Donoreo himself pointed out he's looking at about a quarter the cost you suggested. Thus hyperbole. Not every private school is UCC or Havergal.

Or TCS, Go Bears!

We would not be sending the girls to private school for HS. Pretty much all of those are much more expensive. Unless grandpa is paying, they will go to public school for high school.

Kalford
Seems To Be An Rtfm Problem.
MVM
join:2001-03-20
Ontario

Kalford to donoreo

MVM

to donoreo
We put my daughter into private school from grades 4 to 8. It was definitely worth it.

shaner
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

shaner to donoreo

Premium Member

to donoreo
For $200 it's practically a no brainer to me. I'd put my kids there in a heartbeat.

Now, I would actually interview the teachers, even see if you can spend a morning in the grade 2 class. The freedom of a private school is you get to interview them.

Keep in mind the cost of uniforms. For us with 3 kids, uniforms run about $700/year plus impromptu purchases to replace lost or destroyed items.

donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

donoreo

Premium Member

said by shaner:

For $200 it's practically a no brainer to me. I'd put my kids there in a heartbeat.

Now, I would actually interview the teachers, even see if you can spend a morning in the grade 2 class. The freedom of a private school is you get to interview them.

Keep in mind the cost of uniforms. For us with 3 kids, uniforms run about $700/year plus impromptu purchases to replace lost or destroyed items.

We went and spent a half day there ourselves and interviewed the grade 1 teacher. The girls went and spent a whole day.

The uniforms are not bad, they said any grey pants or skirt, any white shirt and any of the sweater, zip ups, etc, with their logo. So, we can get pants/skirts/shirts anywhere.

shaner
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

shaner

Premium Member

That's good.

dirtyjeffer0
Posers don't use avatars.
Premium Member
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0 to donoreo

Premium Member

to donoreo
we have a couple of private schools in London that i know of, and they are all pretty pricey...from the people i know who have kids there, they say they are well worth it.

Matthews Hall is $14,800 for grades 1-8...then you need to add the fees on top of that:

»matthewshall.on.ca/home/ ··· fees.pdf

Waldorf is $9950...plus the extras:

»www.londonwaldorf.ca/sit ··· dule.pdf

Nancy Campbell's rates are about $12k:

»www.nancycampbell.net/ne ··· 2012.pdf

my buddy is a teacher at St Andrews College in Aurora...$30k tuition there.

»www.sac.on.ca/admission/ ··· dex.aspx

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to urbanriot

Premium Member

to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

The teacher's and coaches at a private school near Gone and I all seem very dedicated and engaged in their students' lives, far beyond anything I've seen at a public school. If I lived near there, it's where my kids would go.

Well, there's the one big one here in Fort Erie that I would never consider for my children to for philosophical reasons, though I have never heard anything bad about the education quality and we deal with their administration as our customers all the time. Still, there are a lot of very well-respect private schools in the Niagara Region. My wife and I were looking at various Montessori schools in the region and we found them to actually be affordable enough to send our children to if we choose to. We'll probably still opt for public education, but only because it is much more convenient as the school will be just around the corner from where we live and both work.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to donoreo

MVM

to donoreo
Parents who send their kids to private school and then say it was well worth it or the like don't necessarily have any basis for comparison. How do they know it was worth it if their kids only went to private school, and not public school? There's no basis for comparison there.

The smaller class sizes is a red herring; most studies show no improvement in student achievement with smaller class sizes. In fact, the push for smaller class sizes has probably produced a decrease in quality of education, since it drives up costs by an enormous amount without providing any benefits, taking money away from other things that COULD have an impact. Governments push class size reform because the electorate wants it, and the electorate wants it because they think it must be better, which it isn't. But it's easier to give the voters what they want than it is to try to convince them of that.

eh
@videotron.ca

eh to donoreo

Anon

to donoreo
I can't say if elementary is worth it. But it's definitely something you should plan for, for high school. Very big difference in the quality of education in high school with private. Including after school programs, enrichment programs, arts and such.

Also, Private is a nice tax write off. So you will get gains there that you haven't yet realized or tabulated here. At least, it's like that in QC. You should check this. More money in your pocket.

Both my kids got into private (one starting this year). Got in through academic excellence and all covered. They open up space for kids who excel and would otherwise not go private. We cover the extra activities, uniforms etc. Their friends were rejected. So that's another bonus, the are away from some of those "weeds", and won't be hanging out in a mall during science class.

A child (a person), as you know, is a product of their environment. You should be looking at the environment you are putting them into, and the effect it can/will have on them.

Small class = more structure = more teacher time (important) = more time to review and grasp = closer group of friends/bonding etc..

Also, Lots of private schools coordinate some sort of art, music or other thing. As long as they are accredited, that's another tax write off. Something else for you to look at with the school. Same goes for any sport activity.

You may be surprised that you will end up saving money putting the kids in private as a whole (bottom line).

Money aside, you can't negate the benefits of a smaller class on quality of learning/education.

I would do it.

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot to Guspaz

Premium Member

to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

Parents who send their kids to private school and then say it was well worth it or the like don't necessarily have any basis for comparison. How do they know it was worth it if their kids only went to private school, and not public school? There's no basis for comparison there.

You mean all those singular experiences I've had, where I felt they were the best experiences I've ever had, they're not so good in the end because I have no basis for comparison? That makes me frown on the inside.
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather to donoreo

Premium Member

to donoreo
We put our kids in a montessori school for pre-school and kindergarten. It was well run and the classes were small and the side benefit of before- and after-school care was a plus. They are now in the local elementary school but I think the montessori program gave them a good start.

crazycanuck
@teksavvy.com

crazycanuck to Gone

Anon

to Gone
My step sister went to Albert College, located in Bellville Ontario. Not really a college per se since it starts from kindergarten to grade 12. My sister went from public school to private school. There is a big difference. Yes some students slack off but a good majority does well.
There's quite a few Americans that go to this private school at least there was at the time when my step sister went. Back then my father was pay $20 000 to $25000/ year.

»www.albertcollege.ca/Con ··· tUs.aspx

A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium Member
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

A Lurker

Premium Member

said by crazycanuck :

Yes some students slack off but a good majority does well.

I'm glad you mentioned that. I dated a guy in my senior year of high school who had basically flunked half his classes at a (I believe) quite high-priced and well-respected private school. He stopped making any effort and they didn't seem to follow up at all. I understand his parents were pissed that they had paid so much and nobody even attempted to let them know about his suddenly dropping grades.

yoyomhz
join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA

yoyomhz to donoreo

Member

to donoreo
My aunt said long time ago that studies showed if you send one kid to school at age five, and another kid start school at age seven, after a while the one who started at age seven will be ahead of the other one, because five is way too soon for kids to be sitting in a classrrom like some robot office worker at 8:00 am.

I would homeschool them. Save a fortune. And they probably be so far ahead of all the other kids it wouldn't even be funny.

milnoc
join:2001-03-05
Ottawa

milnoc

Member

You'd be their teacher?

Yikes!


yoyomhz
join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA

yoyomhz to donoreo

Member

to donoreo
what do they do in grade one? sing songs? draw little pictures?
it's a total waste of the kids time to be sitting in some building full of strangers at the age of five, where they can catch the cold from some other little kid, maybe get terrorized by ssome bully, then later learn to swear from another kid. and learn to be little robots that can't even go to the bathroom without teacher's permission?

I'd let the kid sleep in, and enjoy life, and relax til age 7. Then, be super efficient and get the kid to do three years of school in one year, PLUS learn a musical instrument, pLUS learn to cook nutritious meals, PLUS learn things like how corporations cheat us and trick us into buying crap that breaks quickly, PLUS make sure the kid pursues whatever he's talented in. And lots of field trips. Go everywhere. To wineries. To hockey games. Go everywhere. Whatever he likes - let him do that instead of sitting in some school learning to be dumb 'obedient' little robots.

that's what I would do.