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Octavean
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join:2001-03-31
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reply to Niarlan

Re: [Sci-Fi] Fringe: Season Five

No, not necessarily, it was September that saved Peter from drowning. The plan was to change the evolutionary path chosen by the scientist not to keep the observers from ever existing. Also note that September (if that was his name) donated genetic material to creat the anomaly which likely means he himself had some mutation to pass on.

So the observers would likely still exists but would observer for different reasons (in other words not world domination). This, if it is the case, would still leave the door open for the observer to save Peter,...



Wily_One
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1 edit
reply to Niarlan

I've only been watching Fringe regularly for the last 2-3 seasons, so I missed the very beginning. However, I believe I recall at one point that September admitted it was he that caused Walter to miss the fact that he found the cure for his dying Peter. Thus if there were no Observer incursion, Walter was able to save his own son and thus never traveled to the other side, never brought the other Peter back to our side, and never fell into the ice.

If someone with more episodes under their belt can verify, I'd appreciate it.



Niarlan
Excelsior
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1 recommendation

I think September distracted Walternate from finding that cure, Walter didn't find it in time.



Octavean
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The point I was trying to make was that the Observers wouldn’t have been destroyed or never created by their form of selective forced evolution. They simply would have made different choices using the anomaly as a template (knowing that they didn’t have to sacrifice emotion). So the Observers would have existed and they likely would have observed as well as been noticed by the native population of our dimension / time. The reasons for observation would have likely been different though.

However, I will point out that intellect and emotion were present in invading forces throughout our history so this technically shouldn’t have mattered either way. The presumption is that the Observers with emotion would have been compassionate and evolved enough to have other noninvasive / nondestructive interests,….

Think of it in terms of Klingons invaders caring nothing for the needs of those they conquer and the Federation with the prime directive (not wanting to alter the evolution of less evolved cultures),…

At least that was my take on it.



DarkLogix
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I have a problem with the paradox solution.

ok if the observers were changed then Walter-nat wouldn't have been distracted by September and he would have seen he had the cure.

So Walter wouldn't have crossed over to save alt-peter, because he wouldn't have needed saving.

Walter-nat didn't do the cortexifan trials so there's not powered up olivia in universe2.

Olivia in Universe1 wouldn't have peter to help her.

Walter would never have gotten out of the asylum just as in universe1b

Due to the ripples there wouldn't be an Olivia and Peter together on 2015.

Peter would be in Universe2c, Olivia in 1c.

people keep forgetting the initial alteration of Walter-nat getting distracted by September while Walter was watching causing Walter to see what the cure was but not Walter-nat.

And if the Observers intent were changed then the cause of the disruption would be changed.
--
»Death Star Petition



DarkLogix
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reply to Niarlan

said by Niarlan:

I think September distracted Walternate from finding that cure, Walter didn't find it in time.

Correct.

So if the distraction were removed then walter would be left without a son, and would have never shattered the universe.

And Walter-nat would have kept his son.
--
»Death Star Petition


Rook008
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1 recommendation

reply to darcilicious

Although I usually don't like "time travel fixes everything" conclusions, I thought it was a very good series finale.

Overall, sci-fi on TV just got a lot less interesting with Fringe gone.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken


graniterock

join:2003-03-14
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As mentioned previously by someone else in this thread, what bothered me about their solution was how they could expect to bring the boy to the evolutionary scientists since the moment the Observers invaded the future was changed. There was a one liner in the finale to acknowledge this and September's time travel knowledge "assured us" they would get the boy to the proper 2167.

While acknowledging that whole time travel thing is pure fantasy (thus far!) I've been of the mind that time doesn't need to always loop back on itself. ie If they got the boy to the future scientists, they wouldn't need to continually repeat this for it to be true. In the Fringe universe Walter said nature abhors a paradox and thus likely he would cease to exist after the time line reset. But he would just magically appear to the 2167 scientists with no historical existence from the new time line perspective.

I imagine JJ likely felt that time paradoxes exist in "time bubbles" or the such hence there could be two 2167s and by sending the boy to the future of their choosing they were able to "collapse" the one the Fringe folk didn't want to happen.

At any rate it is an interesting way to interpret time travel and from a story telling perspective it gives him a lot more flexibility in what the characters can actually do.



Wily_One
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reply to Rook008

said by Rook008:

Overall, sci-fi on TV just got a lot less interesting with Fringe gone.

QFT.

Is there any sci-fi left on TV now? Until Falling Skies comes back, I can't think of any.


Octavean
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said by Wily_One:

said by Rook008:

Overall, sci-fi on TV just got a lot less interesting with Fringe gone.

QFT.

Is there any sci-fi left on TV now? Until Falling Skies comes back, I can't think of any.

Did you mean, are there any Scifi shows on network TV,….?

SyFy started running the first season of “Continuum” but that’s not network TV and its not new (new to the USA though),…

Presumably BattleStar Galactica: Blood and Chrome will air on SyFy in February but with no guaranteed series run to follow. I will point out that the then new SciFi channel revival of the BSG franchise had a similar start,….sort of,….

I just kind of wish they had left Fringe a little more open ended with the intention of revisiting the franchise with movie specials or something. Hell even movies with theatrical releases,…. I’d be cool with that,…


Wily_One
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Yes network TV or TV in general. I don't invest time in any "SyFy" shows any more.



Snakeoil
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said by Wily_One:

Yes network TV or TV in general. I don't invest time in any "SyFy" shows any more.

Yes there is.
Big bang theory, while not a true sci-fi show, does give a nod to us sci-fi fans.
Person of Interest, while a crime of the week show, has a sci-fi background with the all seeing "Machine".

Also one of the networks will be running "Do no harm", which is yet another retelling of Jekyll and Hyde. But that may fall into Horror.

Then you have the fantasy series, Grimm and Once Upon a Time.

Those are all I can think of on the "major" networks.
IMO, the term "Major" should be dropped as the minor networks have a decent assembly of shows on them [from time to time].
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


Wily_One
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I watch BBT; it's funny and I appreciate the frequent nods to sci-fi.

As for the rest, they hold no interest for me.



Octavean
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reply to Wily_One

said by Wily_One:

Yes network TV or TV in general. I don't invest time in any "SyFy" shows any more.

If you have not watched Continuum then you are doing yourself an injustice IMO by avoiding it due to its scant SyFy affiliation. It originated in Canada on "ShowCase" and SyFy is only making it available in the USA. It's not a SyFy production.

Also, Battlestar Galactica: Blood and Chrome if you haven't watched it was IMO every bit as good as the BSG revival on the old SciFi channel (pre-SyFy) and its well worth seeing wherever you choose to see it.


Rook008
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reply to darcilicious

I think Continuum qualifies as sci-fi, but the second season hasn't started yet, and I've already seen the entire first season.
So for me, there really isn't any sci-fi on TV.

Can't wait for BSG: Blood And Chrome to start.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken



Octavean
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join:2001-03-31
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2 edits

I’ve watched both Continuum and BSG: Blood And Chrome on Youtube. However, I will watch both on SyFy-HD as they air or rather record them via Media Center PC.

Without getting into specifics, I’ll just assume that one should support a show by actually watching it when it airs. As inaccurate as ratings may be, they are still used as the primary metric in measuring the success of a show. In other words it seems self defeating to watch a show through alternative means, ignore it when it airs only to wonder why the industry seems to be making less and less of what you want to see.

***edit***

For what its worth, I think "Defiance" looks fairly good but doesn’t hit until sometime in April:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3XKZU459DI


Rook008
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But how does Rook watching a show, as it airs, affect ratings?
I mean, how do they know I'm watching?

Defiance does look good.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken



DarkLogix
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What you don't think your cable box reports that to them?



Rook008
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I watch broadcast network shows without the set-top-box.
No reason to have it on if I'm not using it.

As for shows on SyFy, yeah, I use the set-top-box, but no, I don't think it affects ratings.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken



Wily_One
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reply to DarkLogix

said by DarkLogix:

What you don't think your cable box reports that to them?

Only a small number of people have Nielsen boxes. I don't know how many, but presumably it's a statistically valid sample size. (Some years ago they actually solicited me to have one installed, so from that I gather it's randomized.)

If you are not one of those people, then what you watch is not counted.


DarkLogix
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And you think comcast/DTV aren't going to log you too?



lotusracer
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reply to DarkLogix

said by DarkLogix:

What you don't think your cable box reports that to them?

some of us still don't use a cable box.... at least so far, I am able to watch 'unboxed' via a QAM tuner in my tv, or a digital tuner in my dvr.
--
Humanity - The greatest natural disaster of all time.


Wily_One
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reply to DarkLogix

said by DarkLogix:

And you think comcast/DTV aren't going to log you too?

Why would Nielsen care what Comcast logs? If I'm Nielsen I am going to take the data from my pool of carefully selected sample points, not accept data from any specific vendor or other 3rd party.


DarkLogix
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said by Wily_One:

said by DarkLogix:

And you think comcast/DTV aren't going to log you too?

Why would Nielsen care what Comcast logs? If I'm Nielsen I am going to take the data from my pool of carefully selected sample points, not accept data from any specific vendor or other 3rd party.

You really think nielsen is the only ratings that matter anymore?

Comcast/DTV/ect also own networks of their own and put ads on other channels, you think they price those just off nielsen?
--
»Death Star Petition


Alpha Phoenix
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reply to darcilicious

Still have the last 2 episodes to watch. I'm avoiding reading the last bunch of posts until then.



Alpha Phoenix
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1 edit
reply to darcilicious

Wow... finally watched the finale.... I must say it left me sad, but satisfied.

I do feel that the writers jumped around quite a bit in the last few seasons though. The show had more of a realistic feel to it in the earlier seasons, then jumped to William Bell creating genetically mutated creatures and trying to create his own universe and destroy ours int eh process while using Olivia as the catalyst, then the next season deals with the alternate universe and then the machine, then Peter being erased from existence, then they just conveniently bring him back with no real solid explanation, we are just supposed to accept that he's back because he had such an indelible footprint in the hearts/minds of others?! Then now all of a sudden we flash forward 21 years into the future and it's this whole Observers Invasion storyline???! Then on top of that we miss the whole Peter/Olivia romance and getting married, and her getting pregnant and having a child stuff?! WTF?!
--
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo



Rook008
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I know exactly what you mean. Each season seemed to take off in a different direction from the last. The story arcs were seasonal instead of being carried over from year to year. I kind of enjoyed that though.

I do wish we got to see more of Olivia and Peter's story, but what we did get was pretty good.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken